Do any of you go to church?

[BUSTINOUT]

lol

[Billy_Bathgate]

Originally posted by TKO
I'm Muslim and of course have STRONG faith in God......It really boggles my mind when people think they have NO creator....we just mysteriously or scientifically appeared ?? And the moon and sun and stars, and plants, and the millions of breeds of animals, and the ocean, and this entire universe....what you wanna tell me we did all this on our own ?? Please.......

Well, as silly as the universe majically appearing or just popping up etc, to me is just as silly as saying that some almighty supernatural meaning just created it. Where did he come from? According to religion...hes always existed.

Sorry, but from the other side of the tracks, that is just as silly if not more to me.


I dont know where we came from or how. I do know I dont belive Creation or Big Bang theories.


Science does show existince of evolution, over long periods of time with very small changes. BUT...I cant picture that we came from bacteria...so I dont really believe that either.

My hope, when I die I get to learn all the answers.

[Lmg2701]

not to sound like a preacher here but i'm a faithful catholic and some comments made here are very ignorant in nature either because of the person's own beliefs or by their lack of knowledge. First.....scapegoat.....ok whats easier to believe, theres a God who created all or that there all of a sudden one day there was this big ball of gas and dust that exploded and created the universe just like it is now.........until science can tell me otherwise i will believe in God. Second of all christians, knowledgable ones anyways, will not tell you native americans are in hell just because they didnt know about Jesus or God.....don't know who told you that buddy but that's not what christians believe. Third it is everyone's opinion to take up whatever faith they choose and i will not knock them but to say religion is a scapegoat allows yourself to think that you won't have to pay for all the things you did wrong in this life, it gives you that feeling of thinking let me do whatever i want because there won't be any reprocussions i mean isn't it conveinent to go around killing people, raping people, selling drugs (steroids is not a drug it is a testosterone enhancer....) stealing and doing all kinds of other bad things and knowing that you wont have to answer to anybody or anything for it. come on guys that is just ridiculous but anyway this is just my $0.02

[morebeefplease]

Originally posted by Hollywood
Hey, I don't know what I did to you, but you have no right calling me a hypocrite. And it's not the religion, it's me. Go after me if you must, but I'm not blaming it on my religion and neither should you...You don't even know me.

i'm sorry hollywood i wasn't saying about you, i should have made that little clearer. there are a lot of ppl though who go through the motions, they go to church, say they are religous, but never really think about what church it telling them.

again i meant nothing towards you.

[morebeefplease]

Originally posted by GSU7
But you have to take into account that most that fought or died for them were radicals/extremeists.

dictators and tyrannts control ppl through terror stalin, nepolean, romans, saddam. they all have the same solgan "your either for me or your against me", "follow me or suffer"

[Klash]

Originally posted by BUSTINOUT
Don't put words into my mouth Klash. That is not what I am saying at all. I don't believe our environment makes us do anything. That is the whine of the victim. I was saying that I may have come to some of the same decision had a been in his shoes. As for B_B or anyone else never having a chance, I'll let you make that ASSumption, because I never will.

As for people growing up in other "religious" communities, I won't be baited into that discussion with you. Afterall, what I feal makes no difference one way or the other.

I am not trying to put words in you mouth. What I am saying in regards to your statement is that you do believe environment does play a role on our perception and what we are exposed to. In the christian belief you live one life and if you do not follow the rules of the religion (belief in jesus as the son of god) you are punished. I am simply stating not every life has an equal setting. So that is where I ASSumed you believed in pre-destiny. Even if you don't believe in pre-destiny per se, but to say that one soul would have an advantage over another soul in being exposed to the right information (or debate) to help get him into heaven is IMO pre destiny.

Our friend TKO stated he is muslim (above). In the christian religion he will be punished for eternity because of that belief.

I'm not trying to bait you, I just wanted to trade ideas since you are the informed christian of the thread


I also think reincarnation through the ages in the attempt of perfecting the soul is the most believable of theories. (like Edgar Cayce's readings)

[Billy_Bathgate]

Originally posted by Lmg2701
not to sound like a preacher here but i'm a faithful catholic and some comments made here are very ignorant in nature either because of the person's own beliefs or by their lack of knowledge. First.....scapegoat.....ok whats easier to believe, theres a God who created all or that there all of a sudden one day there was this big ball of gas and dust that exploded and created the universe just like it is now.........until science can tell me otherwise i will believe in God. Second of all christians, knowledgable ones anyways, will younot tell native americans are in hell just because they didnt know about Jesus or God.....don't know who told you that buddy but that's not what christians believe. Third it is everyone's opinion to take up whatever faith they choose and i will not knock them but to say religion is a scapegoat allows yourself to think that you won't have to pay for all the things you did wrong in this life, it gives you that feeling of thinking let me do whatever i want because there won't be any reprocussions i mean isn't it conveinent to go around killing people, raping people, selling drugs (steroids is not a drug it is a testosterone enhancer....) stealing and doing all kinds of other bad things and knowing that you wont have to answer to anybody or anything for it. come on guys that is just ridiculous but anyway this is just my $0.02

Not all people adopt a religion as a scapegoat, but some do. Not all, I dont think anyone meant it that way. How many times have you heard someone say they goto church because it makes them feel better about themselves? I know I have at least.

Actually, Babtist believe that N Americans are in fact in hell. Why? Because they believe that after you reach a point of maturaty you are intelligent enough to realise that there is a Creator. And that they should feel the calling of a God and seek Him. Worshiping of false gods, wether they knew better or not, will not get you in Heaven. Same as other religions such as Judism. They dont believe Jesus is the son of God.


The thing that I dont get is a Christians defence of Creation. Usually, its about how there is no proof of the big-bang and that its silly how it just bam was there. That just seems strange to me. Becuase..there is no scientific proof of a God, and its just as silly as saying that some person whos existed forever just all the sudden made something appear. This isnt nessicary reflecting my own opinion, but I am looking at it from the evolution side of the tracks for this particular aspect. Maybe you can explain that to me? Ive never understood it, and the only answers I have got is usually, because it is written.

I read someone sig (not to point fingers, just was intrigued) that said somethign like... From a Pro-Creation standpoint, if the universe simply created by two atoms colliding, then tell me where those two atoms came from. The point I believe, was saying that well, big-bang couldnt happen because it still relies on the previous existance of two other atoms. But.. ok then, if God created everything...where did he come from? Its the same problem. You can say that God has always existed, but you can say those atoms did too.

[BUSTINOUT]

Originally posted by Klash

Our friend TKO stated he is muslim (above). In the christian religion he will be punished for eternity because of that belief.

Probably like I will will be according to his. But I certainly can't speak for Islam since I am by no means educated in it.

Originally posted by Klash

I'm not trying to bait you, I just wanted to trade ideas since you are the informed christian of the thread

LOL. For from it my man. Just informed when it comes to me...nobody else. Different sides are always good to see though.

[Klash]

Originally posted by BUSTINOUT
Probably like I will will be according to his. But I certainly can't speak for Islam since I am by no means educated in it.

Well, see that is what I'm saying. One of you are going to be wrong. (I think both of you )

I'm not the most compassionate person in the world but I would say based on that fact alone neither one of you deserve to suffer for eternity (hell, I would say nothing you can do on earth is worth an eternal hell). And if any god would punish someone for something so insignificant I would rather be part of the rebellion.:2gunsfiri

[Lmg2701]

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
Not all people adopt a religion as a scapegoat, but some do. Not all, I dont think anyone meant it that way. How many times have you heard someone say they goto church because it makes them feel better about themselves? I know I have at least.

Actually, Babtist believe that N Americans are in fact in hell. Why? Because they believe that after you reach a point of maturaty you are intelligent enough to realise that there is a Creator. And that they should feel the calling of a God and seek Him. Worshiping of false gods, wether they knew better or not, will not get you in Heaven. Same as other religions such as Judism. They dont believe Jesus is the son of God.


The thing that I dont get is a Christians defence of Creation. Usually, its about how there is no proof of the big-bang and that its silly how it just bam was there. That just seems strange to me. Becuase..there is no scientific proof of a God, and its just as silly as saying that some person whos existed forever just all the sudden made something appear. This isnt nessicary reflecting my own opinion, but I am looking at it from the evolution side of the tracks for this particular aspect. Maybe you can explain that to me? Ive never understood it, and the only answers I have got is usually, because it is written.

I read someone sig (not to point fingers, just was intrigued) that said somethign like... From a Pro-Creation standpoint, if the universe simply created by two atoms colliding, then tell me where those two atoms came from. The point I believe, was saying that well, big-bang couldnt happen because it still relies on the previous existance of two other atoms. But.. ok then, if God created everything...where did he come from? Its the same problem. You can say that God has always existed, but you can say those atoms did too.

That is where faith comes in my brother. Creation is beyond what our minds can handle. It's kind of like what came first the chicken or the egg????? Scientifically faith is just an escape for those looking for a reason why things are the way they are, I look at it as believing in a higher power. Some just have a hard time having faith and they won't believe in faith because they believe they have no reason to think there is a higher being. To these people I offer the solution to look at birth. What an awesome miracle each and every time it occurs. It's also been said that for this universe to be created as it is, it would be like destroying a clock, throwing the pieces in the ocean, and then the clock being whole again when it hits the ocean floor. I by no means am qualified to try to dispute someones beliefs and I won't try, I know what I believe and that is enough for me. In closing God bless.

[Billy_Bathgate]

I know your point, but how is that different in believing in evolution, the big bang, the B2 majic show, etc...

ITs all blind faith with no proof. Why is Creation the better theory? In science, Creation is on of the less possible as science and supernatural beings dont really go hand in hand. Iv just never heard a really good argument or reason of why Creation should be believed, besides that "it is written". Im jsut curious.

[Klash]

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
I know your point, but how is that different in believing in evolution, the big bang, the B2 majic show, etc...

ITs all blind faith with no proof. Why is Creation the better theory? In science, Creation is on of the less possible as science and supernatural beings dont really go hand in hand. Iv just never heard a really good argument or reason of why Creation should be believed, besides that "it is written". Im jsut curious.

I agree. B_B
It's not that I don't believe in creation but it's like you said, they believe in it because "it is written" which would be fine. But the other shit that "is written" is a bunch of D&D shit (David Cross). An example would be that the Bible treats women like they are nothing but property, which ownership can be transferred between men (example if I die, my brother would take my wife, if he wanted her-but she has no say)

I know you guys are like that is in the old testament it's not like that anymore.
And I say truth (no matter what religion) would remain consistent throughout time.

[Billy_Bathgate]

That is true. If God was perfect, and non-foulable, why were things that were considered NOT sins, now sins? Clearly since he spoke frequently back in the OT.

Ex...multiple wives. Abraham and Solomon first come to mind.

Sinning was often punished by stoning to death. Ex, battle of Jordan when XXX (cant think of the name) went against God and took the spoils and he and his family were all stoned to death.

You wont see that in the NT.


Why would God ever change his mind on something. That would imply an incorrect decision to start with. Ex...why doesnt God talk to people anymore or do "miracles" like turing rods into snakes or starting fires on waterlogged stones.


Why did God have to destroy Soddom and Gomoroah and why did he send a flood? I know it says man made the decisions to act out, but wouldnt creating a being that would deliberately disobey and defy God himself mean that he incorrectly made our species? I mean is that not a mistake? Can you say God purposely made it inccorect so he could then destroy it? Is that not a sin by his own definition?

[Klash]

Who was that in the Old Testament that got in a fist fight with God?

[TKO]

For all the non-believers, you will believe once the angel of death takes your soul back to God after you die for judgement......Only then will you believe, but it will be too late....