CHRISTIANS

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

And I better not find him in my heaven.

You bring up a good point HP!!

More on that later!!

I'm still at work but will get more into that as soon as I can.
I'll say that my personal view is quite a bit off from some of the others but given the total respect we have here I think I can get away without a stoning!! LOL!!

Seriously though - I can totally dig the energy thing and part of us keeps on keeping on regardless of what comes next.


Sal

[Sal Paradise]

OK - - here we go!

OK here goes and it's bit long - so bear with me!

First I want to say that I fully expect some will this this is a bit "out there" but I'm OK with that.
Also, I don't expect anyone to agree - and I'm OK with that too! I kind of like sitting in a different seat than most.

And as other have said I think it's great that we can have such discussion here and remain respectful and ask the kind of questions that most folks get upset about.

Deepsouth - I truly dig all that you have said in this thread and respect you even more for it! - I love you for it brother!

And everyone else that has added, I can't say enough how much this impressed upon me how great a group of people this is!
I'm really and truly shocked in such a great way!

All that said -

I also, see no harm with anyone who worships in a certain way - that's between them and their GOD.

To start with I'll touch on a few things that have been on point thus far.
The Devil - I do not believe in a thing refered to as the devil. To me this makes no sense as I alluded to in one of the previous post.
God - I do not believe in a GOD that most think of in common terms.
I think there is a greater something becasue as also mentioned earlier if we rose from muck - where did muck come from???
This is just too simple an answer and that there must something greater.
Where did that something greater come from?? Well that's why it's something "Greater"!

Also, I don't think of a heaven and hell in any sort of resemblance to what has been portrayed as the typical.
Heaven being a great and wonderful thing simply makes no sense - more on this in a bit.
And as far as hell is concerned - well that sounds like a very good thing to try to keep the unruly in line but again - it really makes no sense.
The bible - well that is where some have to have faith - I have faith in a greater being - call it God or whatever - doesn't really matter.
But the bible - nope - can't get that one either, a good story sure - a good way to pattern a life? Ok - maybe.
But regardless of whatever it may say - the words were written by man - no greater a man than myself or you.
This can be discussed in more detail but that's not entirely the point of this post.

I do think there is merit to living a "proper" life but for no reason short of it generally makes things an easier path than that of an "improper" life.
Think about it - what is easier in general - making mostly decent decisions, trying not to hurt others willfully and generally be well accepted?
Or being on the "most wanted list" for an example?
It just makes things a bit easier without all those who may have been hurt seeking revenge or being hateful to you - becasue as much as good GOD fearing people will try to "turn the other cheek" they're still human and can be a blood thirsty, revenge seeking creature.

So - where does that leave little Old Sal - - -
This is where is gets a bit interesting and I'm not really sure where to start so please forgive me if this bounces around a bit.

First - what is the purpose of this so called Heaven?
Is this so we can be in a better place and be one with GOD? Really?
If that is so - why then didn't he simply create us and simply leave us to roam freely in Heaven from the start? That could have been done - he can do whatever he so chooses.
Really - what was the whole point in creating Adam and Eve?? <<< Here's where it starts to get good -- or a bit off the wall! LOL!

The poor lonely sucker we refer to as God was a bit bored.....doesn't sound to far fetched considering it's ageless and always was and always will be right?
So along comes "man" to shake things up a bit.
Lets consider "man" a character in a book - better yet a "choose your own adventure book" where you are writing it, for it later to be read but the one who put the whole thing in motion to start with.
When does this great book get read?
Possibly upon death and this "life" known as "Sal" is filed away in the great library (we can call this heaven maybe) - to be read at a time if GODs choosing.
So let's make a good story of a life so we may be read more than once and aren't left collecting dust...Let's try to have some FUN with this thing!
The last thing anyone wants to do is read a boring F'ing story -- right?
Each of our lives can simply be looked at as a story to be read along the way.

This also leads to the caring and loving GOD - - sorry, don't really buy it.
Honestly, I don't think how we live our life makes a hill of beans difference to the creator - Though I'm sure he'd prefer a more pleasant run that not.
But really - if it was so loving and caring and all things good - then why would it have ever allowed such atrosity in the things as we see today?
Why the suffering, why the pain? Devil??? Refer to earlier post - "devil" only exist because the great creator allowed it to be so.
Being refered to often as omnipotent or simply all knowing, all powerful, whatever - then he certainly knew what was to come - so no devil unless he so chooses.
Also, no pain or suffering or pleasure or joy unless it is somehow directly linked back to this GOD.
So sorry - can't buy into the devil thing.

Why then do we have such suffering? Is GOD to blame - well see the author of the book - that would be you.
There is no joy without sorrow - there is simply nothing to relate "joy" too.
Unless there is something bad there is no way to know <<< Here is one possible reason for life (to suffer and later get to heaven) - but still doubtful.
If it wasn't for the rain would you love the sun?

So - as we continue down this silly little thing called life - - what is the point?
GOD doesn't care - he's simply waiting for the book to be finished so he has something to read for all eternity.
Though he does prefer a good book - or at least one that is interesting.
Does he want to see suffering and pain - absolutely not - at least not unless he's just tired of fairy tale endings all the time....Oh wait!
Maybe he is - after all - tired of fairy tale endings.
Think about it - if every book was joyous occasion and ran about with no drama or turmoil it would get kind of boring after a while - wouldn't you think?
Besides - as mentioned earlier - no joy without sorrow....
Hence - the reason for the "free will' and a little bit of a bad apple thrown in. Hmmm...bad apple?? Sound familiar?

So if GOD doesn't care why should we?
Well - that is way too simple - it's simply because it's more FUN!!! (there's that word again!)
What feels better - kicking you dog in the ribs or giving that sucker a big old hug and a kiss right on the lips!!??!!???
What feels better - backhanding your wife or girlfriend or snuggling up and feeling her soft skin touching gently against yours?
Maybe even that silky little spot a few inches below her navel?? It simply feels better and it's more FUN!
Ever give food to homeless man or woman? Feels pretty good doesn't it.
Get the picture yet??

So - how does this all wrap up?
Well for Sal it's pretty simple - GOD made life for one reason and one reason only - for us to enjoy ourselves.
Have a good time (with a small amount of bad thrown in for measure) and make one hell of story and make it worth reading time and time again.

We only get one chance at this - and while our energy or soul or spirit whatever have you may continue on in that great library of eternity - we only get once chance to write that book.

Have FUN - try not to hurt anyone willfully and enjoy what time we have.
For while we may the author of this crazy little book called life - we may not always know what the next page brings.


Sal

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

This chapter is what a non-denominal preacher says means that a woman should not cut her hair. He says the cover is not literal like the Catholics think. How they cover their heads with scarves before they pray, but that it simply is speaking of the womans hair.

Looks like another good example of "who's correct?" to me. I think it means cover, in the literal sense, as you said deep. Why wouldn't he just say hair?

But, I've been to many churches, and heard each different interpretation. They can't all be right.

thats the thing i wonder deep, you said a christian follows the bible...who's interpitation? catholics do this, baptist do that...it's all just the way they read it. like you. what makes you right and them wrong (i grew up catholic by the way and mary's important but i never "worshiped" her....she had god's kid dude....show her some love, lol).

oh..klash...god gave free will to man...not the angels. you know this, so dont play stupid. lucifer got dumb and god kicked his ass for it. you? you can get dumb and he's cool with it.....like franklin, jefferson and all your other homey's that'll have to share the dunce hat and sit in the corner. he just laff's at you guys....

[horsepwr]

Re: CHRISTIANS

That's definitely an interesting view Sal. I'm not sure if the maker needs us for simple enjoyment like that, but to each his own. That's a way to look at it. And who knows? We might be just filings in a big library.

Good post Sal! I love to hear the different views. it makes you think.

First off though, I don't believe in Adam and Eve. They would've had to "rise from the muck". Adam didn't come from no-where, and poor Eve. All the sin in the world is put on her. Once again, and said many times. What a book! Great book with some really interesting and good guidlines for the masses to be governed.

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Sal -good post Bro- as I've said in the past- I respect your view. You know- at the end of the day we won't actually know who is correct until death- of course then it will be to late and there is no turning back. Your view is your writting the book and my view is I'm reading the book(Bible)- but we both have faith that we are correct- so at least we can agree on faith- thats a start!

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

thats the thing i wonder deep, you said a christian follows the bible...who's interpitation? catholics do this, baptist do that...it's all just the way they read it. like you. what makes you right and them wrong (i grew up catholic by the way and mary's important but i never "worshiped" her....she had god's kid dude....show her some love, lol).

oh..klash...god gave free will to man...not the angels. you know this, so dont play stupid. lucifer got dumb and god kicked his ass for it. you? you can get dumb and he's cool with it.....like franklin, jefferson and all your other homey's that'll have to share the dunce hat and sit in the corner. he just laff's at you guys....

You see thats what I'm talking about- different Preachers/Pastors have all put their spin on this and people get confused- but what truely matter is when you read and I mean just read it- don't put a spin on it, truely look at the words just as they are written and it talks about her having a COVERING on her head- thats it plain and simple. Doesn't say you can't trim/cut it- just not as to shave and remove it and thats what it means to me- just as written- nothing more nothing less

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

All I am saying is that anyone who says "Im a Christian" and goes to church, tries to be a good Christian is RELIGIOUS!

Religious isnt a dirty word. Lots of Christians act like it is. Why do so many Christians claim they are NOT religious, when they ARE? Whats wrong with being religious?

Its not a dirty word per say, but to mant people see religious as a denomination rather than non-denominational. I looked up the definition and we are both right and wrong- I guess I press so hard against being stereotyped to that word is because of the misconception of it tieing me to a denomination- I hhope you can understand why I try and differenciate from that term.- Anywho here is the defination:


re⋅li⋅gious  /rɪˈlɪdʒəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhs] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -gious.
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion: a religious holiday.
2. imbued with or exhibiting religion; pious; devout; godly: a religious man.
3. scrupulously faithful; conscientious: religious care.
4. pertaining to or connected with a monastic or religious order.
5. appropriate to religion or to sacred rites or observances.

–noun 6. a member of a religious order, congregation, etc.; a monk, friar, or nun.
7. the religious, devout or religious persons: Each year, thousands of the religious make pilgrimages to the shrine.

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

You see thats what I'm talking about- different Preachers/Pastors have all put their spin on this and people get confused- but what truely matter is when you read and I mean just read it- don't put a spin on it, truely look at the words just as they are written and it talks about her having a COVERING on her head- thats it plain and simple. Doesn't say you can't trim/cut it- just not as to shave and remove it and thats what it means to me- just as written- nothing more nothing less

so what your saying is a chick cant shave her head? if a woman lives a good life of high morals, but happens to want her head shaved, (lives down south, it's hot...whatever), she's going to hell? wow bro...thats some harsh shyt. i didnt realize the christian's made theirselves so miserable....i mean...i'm not knocking ya, but ya gotta worry about this and that and your hair and shyt....cant say a cuss word...man, i cant imagine god giving a shyt about any of that. i understand why the spins get put on it....i dont think anyone can imagine that god cares about some of this stuff. take that subject for instance...how do you know that wasnt just some dude pissed that his ol' lady cut her hair off and his boy's are ragging him for being with a dude? he decided to write that shyt in the bible and POOF....it's god's will!!!
he actually cares about that stuff? seriously? so like, mother teresa die's and god's all "you had a good run kiddo...you did some good work...helped the sick, the poor, led a very sefless life"....."but...there was that one time when you was 19 and you shaved your head...sorry....dems the breaks...yeeeaaa, your gonna have to go to hell...it's in the bible and everything, nothing i can do!!"
again...i know i sound like a smartass, but your leading me to believe that you take the whole book literally...not that it bothers me, just i didnt know christians were like that....that book has to have some interpatation inorder to fit in todays world...you have to interpate SOMETHING dont you?

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I could go on and on, but I think I make my point. I don't look down nor turn my nose up at anyone making an effort to serve the Lord- better something than nothing. But just sit back and take a good hard look at the world today- they are taking the Ten Commandments out of your couthouses- your kids can't pray in school- some stores don't even acknowledge Christmas- and the list goes on- you think the Devil isn't trying to rule the earth. You have a Muslim President of the United States of America that was founded on the Christian Beliefs - Please all I ask is open your eyes

The United States of America was not founded on Christian Beliefs. Does it matter that a Muslim is president? Muslims adhere to faith don't they; what makes their faith inferior to a Christians faith? Look at the Ten Commandments - only two or three of them are consistent with individual rights, the rest are dogmatic Christian values. The government is not entitled to respect an establishment of religion; even (and especially) if it is the religion of the majority. All kids can pray in school; prayer is introspective - how can someone stop that or are you saying prayer should be organized and sanctioned by our GOVERNMENT schools?

The devil isn't trying to rule the world. If their is a devil he already has it but if their is something so evil and so anti-man, that we could call it the devil, it's not some supernatural being it's the perpetuation of the irrational, that the majority of our population regurgitate in the forms of religion, faith, environmentalism, altruism, duty, etc.

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Ya know, if they really dug into religion. Like, television shows, documentaries, reality tv, they could have a hell of a good show. Some seriously whacky entertainment.

there was a wife swap that entered a really religious house and the lady said she wasn't going to take the money because it was of the devil and she went ballistic yelling, stomping around and then she tore the check up. then at the end of the show, it was stated that she had reconsidered and decided to take the 10 grand. Hilarious.

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

there was a wife swap that entered a really religious house and the lady said she wasn't going to take the money because it was of the devil and she went ballistic yelling, stomping around and then she tore the check up. then at the end of the show, it was stated that she had reconsidered and decided to take the 10 grand. Hilarious.

That woman was a straight up nut case-LOL

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

The United States of America was not founded on Christian Beliefs. Does it matter that a Muslim is president? Muslims adhere to faith don't they; what makes their faith inferior to a Christians faith? Look at the Ten Commandments - only two or three of them are consistent with individual rights, the rest are dogmatic Christian values. The government is not entitled to respect an establishment of religion; even (and especially) if it is the religion of the majority. All kids can pray in school; prayer is introspective - how can someone stop that or are you saying prayer should be organized and sanctioned by our GOVERNMENT schools?

The devil isn't trying to rule the world. If their is a devil he already has it but if their is something so evil and so anti-man, that we could call it the devil, it's not some supernatural being it's the perpetuation of the irrational, that the majority of our population regurgitate in the forms of religion, faith, environmentalism, altruism, duty, etc.

I will find the write ups, but YES it was founded on Christian Beliefs- and Yes Muslims believe Jesus was a Prophet- not the SDon of God- if you will read the Koran its speaks of killing the infadels(that would be me and you or at least those who believe Jesus was the Son of God)

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

oh..klash...god gave free will to man...not the angels. you know this, so dont play stupid. lucifer got dumb and god kicked his ass for it. you? you can get dumb and he's cool with it.....like franklin, jefferson and all your other homey's that'll have to share the dunce hat and sit in the corner. he just laff's at you guys....

Well, if Lucifer never had free will, he wouldn't have been able to decide god was a D*ck and act against him. It wouldn't have been in his programming right? Given that he did rebel against god; it seems he has the same "free will" that us humans have (even though the Christians idea of "free will" isn't free will). If humans act against god we get the same outcome - eternal torture with Lucifer. It sounds like to me, hell is always an option to keep you from questioning this guy that calls himself god.

Looking at "god's own word" he's obviously one sadistic, bigoted slave master. The devil may actually be the good guy, after all we don't get the devil's account. Given the character of god from his own book, I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility that he painted a fictitious account of the devil just to make himself look good. Apart from god calling the devil evil, what actions does he give to back that up. How do we even know Lucifer is in some "lake of fire", he could have been like phuck Yhwh, I'm going to go build up a subdivision for all the souls, with integrity, that won't worship the sadistic, bigoted slave master and we can all live together in luxury. I mean maybe the tree of knowledge was really knowledge of how this entity, calling itself god, is no more powerful than we are (or Lucifer) and has no authority over us that don't give it to him.

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

That woman was a straight up nut case-LOL

You saw it too. I agree even for a Christian - she was way the phuck out there. I can't watch that show without going nuts; everyone on there is phreaking out there.

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Well said Klash.
This is true - there is no national religion in the United States.
There may be reference to GOD but that does not equate a specific religion - Christianity or Buddhism - it's a general term such as Yahweh or Allah.
Hence the "freedom of religion"

Regarding the Ten Commandments - - well that could really get going and then some.
As Deep mentioned earlier - certain "religions" are down right WRONG -
Catholics will pray to Mary and half a dozen other "saints" but the in the commandments it talks about not worshiping idols, false gods, etc. Yet they seem to have all saints days and statues they pray to the whole thing is a bunch of hypocracy.

And Catholics aren't the only ones - heck we could go on about Christmas and Easter being "religious" holidays. Are they really?
What exactly is Easter???
Look close it may not be what some have come to know it as....

Well - that's enough for now - I must get a bit more work done.

I'll stop back in later - - this is a great thread everyone - a lot of good points of view.
None of which are wrong - simply different and that truly is a wonderful thing.


Sal