CHRISTIANS

[BoobooKitty]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I wanted to take a second and say that I didnt intend to make this a post ripping on Chirstians in general. I think there are some issues that a lot of Christians need to become aware of. Nor should this thread be construed as a rejectioon of my own personal faith.

We have such a limited view and understanding most if not all of the time in regard to the bigger picture of life, but our greatest power is this: how we choose to react or respond to a thing. Otherwise, we can only guess and cannot see the full web of life that is connected to a person. I suppose this is why we should never cast judgment on a person because we have no idea where they have come from , what is going on with them, what has happened in their life to bring them where they are now, what tests they are having to face and why, what they need to learn...and so on.
This is also why love should be the foundation of everything we think say and do.

Love encompasses forgiveness, understanding, willingness, compassion, faith and hope. This is why Jesus said it is the greatest commandment.

Fear is the opposite of love and encompasses hate, jealousy, intolerance, resentments and keeps us alienated and from achieving our full potential as human beings.

cool man

I agree. When I was around 6 or 7 years old.....my mom gave me a piece of paper with the Indian prayer on it. "Great Spirit, grant that I may not criticize my neighbor unless I have walked a mile in his moccasins."

I have carried that around with me till this day. I really don't think it matters what religion you are. People do get offended to a point when they disagree, but I believe basically it's all the same.

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^ok, Im with you on that deep, but could the words "devil", "enemy" or "hell" just be metaphorical terms?...Like we reap what we sew from unselfishness, etc. There is a evil in the world and some call it satan. There is misery in the world and that could be "hell"...

So there is an actual physical place called "hell" where God throws people so they can burn for eternity?????

As for the bible, Im surprised that most Christians never question the history of the book. Like I find it interesting that I was always the only person around who actually asked "where did it come from?" people call it the "Word of God" without ever knowing where the book came from. So if we dont believe everything in the bible, God is going to throw us into hell forever?????

Im not trying to be a heretic, Im simply asking questions that many Christians are afraid to ask.

Im glad we can have this discussion here. Its good.

Ok- sorry for the late reply(had a day off)- now let me try and answer some of these questions if I can:

There is a Hell and its desrcibed in the Bible. God doesn't throw you there- This goes all the way back to Adam and Eve- they were pure, but the Devil tempted them and they fell from grace so to speak.God gave you a brain and with that you have been given the the gift of being able to choose- That is why you here Christians speak of being "Born Again". This means re-dedicating your life back to the Lord and laying down the ways of the world(or evil ways-not pleasing to God). Should you choose to give your life to God he accepts you and Loves you- should you deny him and live the life of the world- then you are saying you give your life to Satan and God doesn't send you to Hell, rather YOU choose to go there. Does that make sense??remember I'm not a Pastor- just trying to put this in laymans terms-LOL.

Now you say people call it the "Word of God" but people don't know where it came from. You are somewhat correct. Some of what is written is passed down from word of mouth prior to being written and some of the old scripture was written down and sense been translated in to modern english. Were there some mis-interpitations(sp)- I'd venture to say yes, but all in all I'd say its pretty accurate. Now this being said- believing in what I read in today Bible come partly in Faith, but is it not by this same type of Faith, when you wake up in the morning and open your eyes and go to swing out of bed- is it not faith that you legs will move and your feet will find the floor? At some point we all believe in something( have faith in something) beyond our knowing. If I have to believe in something, then rather than the things of this world which are all failing and man will ALWAYS let you down, I choose to believe in my Lord and Savior for the Bible says "in My house are many mansions" meaning I have a mansion waiting for me in Heaven.

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Ok, Deep, one more question. Hypothetical: 18 year old Johnny goes to bible camp for a week with his buddies. They tell him he must accept Jesus as his saviour and that he must accept the bible as the word of God. Johnny says hes not ready to accept it on blind faith like that and decides not to pray "the sinners prayer". The next day Johnny falls off a boat and dies. Is his soul going to burn in hell for eternity?

Nice way to put me in a vice here- Thanks-LOL

I wish I had the real answer , but its a mixed bag on this- Children are considered innocent and pure by the Bible, but at what true age they are considered adult- I would have to dig a little deeper. If per-say little Johnny ( and by the way- they should never force nor try to control or put them in fear to make them give there life to the Lord) was considered an adult and he denied God by not giving his life to the lord( and this is by Christians term from the Bible- not man made religion) then yes- Heaven would NOT be the place he winds up. Hope that answers your question

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I suppose this is why we should never cast judgment on a person because we have no idea where they have come from , what is going on with them, what has happened in their life to bring them where they are now, what tests they are having to face and why, what they need to learn...and so on.

Dzone, we need to keep this going we haven't had a good philosophical discussion in here in a while.

I think we should recognize that as humans we ALWAYS judge; judgment allows us to decipher what is good for our lives and what is bad for our lives and this includes other people but like you stated above we should always recognize that we don't have full context when we judging a person on a single action but when someone expresses beliefs that are irrational we should call them on it. I think this is one problem we face in today's society; "judge not; lest ye be judged". Noone wants to be judged so they won't even call a man like Obama evil. Phuck that, judge me all you want but Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd are all evil leaders and those that support them are either evil or imbeciles but i think when you judge someone you should be able to back up you conclusions. Yip, I can define evil and those phucking morons fall in that category. In other words, the standard you judge people on should be fact based and not faith based.

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Nice way to put me in a vice here- Thanks-LOL

I wish I had the real answer , but its a mixed bag on this- Children are considered innocent and pure by the Bible, but at what true age they are considered adult- I would have to dig a little deeper. If per-say little Johnny ( and by the way- they should never force nor try to control or put them in fear to make them give there life to the Lord) was considered an adult and he denied God by not giving his life to the lord( and this is by Christians term from the Bible- not man made religion) then yes- Heaven would NOT be the place he winds up. Hope that answers your question

Thanks Deep. I appreciate your input on this. Personally, I dont really ascribe to a lot of what I used to believe, but still would probably classify myself as Christian. Im a big Joel Osteen fan. I have a Joel Osteen book on my desk. I have literally had two people look at it and say "That man is straight out of hell!!" They say his sermons are too much positive thinking and he doesnt talk about hell enough...LOL ...I bring it up, not to criticize these people, but to laugh at how ridiculous such comments are.

I will post more later. Klash is right. Its good for us to have these kinds of talks. Everybody is invited to join in, except daved.....lol...just kiddin bro

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

dude....i aint done 'shrooms in forever!!!!!

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaa

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Dzone, we need to keep this going we haven't had a good philosophical discussion in here in a while.

I totally agree and have more to weigh in on but have been strapped for time.

Sorry about that.

I'll see if I can add more to the convo - but all in all I think it's a great topic and great discussion.
Let's not let this one die.

Of course when I do finally ge a chance to weigh in I fully expect more shroom comments!!! Cause I'm a bit whacked!


Sal

[horsepwr]

Re: CHRISTIANS

believing in what I read in today Bible come partly in Faith, but is it not by this same type of Faith, when you wake up in the morning and open your eyes and go to swing out of bed- is it not faith that you legs will move and your feet will find the floor? At some point we all believe in something( have faith in something) beyond our knowing.

Great posts deep, but in this case of faith. It is only faith you need for what you read in the Bible. Not at all faith that your feet will swing out of bed and hit the floor in the morning. That's a matter of fact proven by physics. Only if an actual variable in reality changes will the fact of your feet hitting the floor change. Mathematics do not lie. You need no faith for manifestation.

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Great posts deep, but in this case of faith. It is only faith you need for what you read in the Bible. Not at all faith that your feet will swing out of bed and hit the floor in the morning. That's a matter of fact proven by physics. Only if an actual variable in reality changes will the fact of your feet hitting the floor change. Mathematics do not lie. You need no faith for manifestation.

Actually - - there may be a measure of faith to the whole thing about putting your feet on the floor too.
It's pretty interesting thin to think about but it gets into another realm of discussion.
But if you're interested check out http://www.whatthebleep.com/

If you've got an open mind to this sort of thing it can really be interesting.
I've watched a series of videos that they put with the same title.

I'm not sure it fits in this discussion so I won't delve into it but check it out.


Sal

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Nice way to put me in a vice here- Thanks-LOL

I wish I had the real answer , but its a mixed bag on this- Children are considered innocent and pure by the Bible, but at what true age they are considered adult- I would have to dig a little deeper. If per-say little Johnny ( and by the way- they should never force nor try to control or put them in fear to make them give there life to the Lord) was considered an adult and he denied God by not giving his life to the lord( and this is by Christians term from the Bible- not man made religion) then yes- Heaven would NOT be the place he winds up. Hope that answers your question

wow...thats a drag...good kid....trying to make the right decission...just flexing his "free will" that god was more than happy to give him and BAM!!!!! "NO HEAVAN FOR YOU"!!!!
so...whats this kid get, like a do over...a mulligan. or are you actually saying that this kid goes to hell?

i dont believe that. he gave you free will....i dont think he did that to sabatage you, but to give you some rope so you can enjoy the many things he gave you on this rock. (after all....who can enjoy a party with dad hanging out all night!!!). kinda a bummer to think he's just waiting for you to fuk up a little, over something minor, so he can cast ya off to hell!!! your god's a drag dude....

also...not too pick on you persey, but i know your very religious. i've allways wondered why religious people will say something like "then yes- Heaven would NOT be the place he winds up" as apposed to saying "yes- hes gonna burn for all eternity in hell"? is it becouse that termonology makes god sound like an ass or is it becouse it make religious people sound too self righteous? just a question i've wanted to ask before and never did.
anyone can answer

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

wow...thats a drag...good kid....trying to make the right decission...just flexing his "free will" that god was more than happy to give him and BAM!!!!! "NO HEAVAN FOR YOU"!!!!
so...whats this kid get, like a do over...a mulligan. or are you actually saying that this kid goes to hell?

i dont believe that. he gave you free will....i dont think he did that to sabatage you, but to give you some rope so you can enjoy the many things he gave you on this rock. (after all....who can enjoy a party with dad hanging out all night!!!). kinda a bummer to think he's just waiting for you to fuk up a little, over something minor, so he can cast ya off to hell!!! your god's a drag dude....

also...not too pick on you persey, but i know your very religious. i've allways wondered why religious people will say something like "then yes- Heaven would NOT be the place he winds up" as apposed to saying "yes- hes gonna burn for all eternity in hell"? is it becouse that termonology makes god sound like an ass or is it becouse it make religious people sound too self righteous? just a question i've wanted to ask before and never did.
anyone can answer

Dave- first let me clear up one thing- I'm NOT Religious- that is man made, I'm a Christian- which means I read the Bible and take it for what it says. I don't try to add to it or put my own spin on it. I just take it as its written. You speak of free will, but thats just it- you have the decision to make-Heaven or Hell its that simple. People think because you are a Christian all fun as you know it is over and you become a Holy Roller, but its not like that at all. I enjoy just about everything you do=- Huntin-Fishin-Liftin-goofin- hangin out-playin sports- watching football-ect. The difference is I don't have to get drunk or use foul language to enjoy myself. I don't think that makes us that different. I don't push Jesus down anyones throat- if the door opens and some ask about my Faith or God- then I try and explain as best I can. The difference between me and people of the world is I don't listen to Devil worshipping singers or the foul contents of there songs- I also give thanks to my Father in Heaven for the Blessings he has given me, like the ability to do well on my job, for my job, for my family, my health- for everything I have because I know where it comes from. Yes my hard work and dedication has gotten me far, but it is God who has given me the avility to do so. I don't understand why some people try so hard to push God away- I don't understand what they are afraid of- The hardest thing I've had to and still deal with is trying to forgive those who have wronged me and to turn the other cheek- do I still want top rip peoples heads off from time to time-YOU BET, but it takes far less energy for me to forgive them and ask the Lord to Bless them than to hold on to the anger and hatred. Like I've said its a choice one makes- you don't have to give up all those pleasures in life - just the ones that are not pleasing to God and by the way- the ones that don't please him aren't any good for you anyway- I hope this explains your concerns somewhat

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Here is something to ponder:
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you [the priestly nation] have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you that you shall be no priest to Me; seeing you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

When I was in college@ UNC, I was heavily involved in Campus Crusade for Christ. i only dated Christian girls. i didnt drink. I carried my bible everywhere I went. i even took my bible with me on dates so i could "share some scripture" with my date. I soon had a reputationa s a guy 'Who takes girls out on dates to witness to them" . I went to parties with christian tracts to pass out to all the drunk people. Me and a few guys on the football team were the campus Jesus freaks. We were highly visible and everyone knew us.

. For spring break, we Campus Crusaders took RVs to daytona b each for the soul purpose of witnessing to sinners on the beach. We would walk up to kids having fun on the beach and ask"Excuse me, if You died tonight, would you go to heaven? Jesus Loves you and he has a wonderful plan for your life"...We would then ask them to pray with us to receive Jesus as their savior. Then at the end of the day, we had rallys at a church where we would total upl all the people who got saved that day! I had one drunk guy "pray with me to receive Jesus and get saved"..I was so excited about it that I was telling everyone.

We also took a spring break trip to steamboat springs, colorado where our mission was to share Jesus Christ with every person we got on the chair lift with.

We spent a minimum of one hour per day in scripture study and I taught bible study in my apartment on sunday nights. I took summer classes on Christian leadership and bible at a colorado bible college.

We also would go to boulder on frieday nights in the summer and stand on the corner of the outdoor pearl street mall and preach to people.

I look back at it as one chapter in my spiritual journey.

[horsepwr]

Re: CHRISTIANS

When I was in college@ UNC, I was heavily involved in Campus Crusade for Christ. i only dated Christian girls. i didnt drink. I carried my bible everywhere I went. i even took my bible with me on dates so i could "share some scripture" with my date. I soon had a reputationa s a guy 'Who takes girls out on dates to witness to them" . I went to parties with christian tracts to pass out to all the drunk people. Me and a few guys on the football team were the campus Jesus freaks. We were highly visible and everyone knew us.

. For spring break, we Campus Crusaders took RVs to daytona b each for the soul purpose of witnessing to sinners on the beach. We would walk up to kids having fun on the beach and ask"Excuse me, if You died tonight, would you go to heaven? Jesus Loves you and he has a wonderful plan for your life"...We would then ask them to pray with us to receive Jesus as their savior. Then at the end of the day, we had rallys at a church where we would total upl all the people who got saved that day! I had one drunk guy "pray with me to receive Jesus and get saved"..I was so excited about it that I was telling everyone.

We also took a spring break trip to steamboat springs, colorado where our mission was to share Jesus Christ with every person we got on the chair lift with.

We spent a minimum of one hour per day in scripture study and I taught bible study in my apartment on sunday nights. I took summer classes on Christian leadership and bible at a colorado bible college.

We also would go to boulder on frieday nights in the summer and stand on the corner of the outdoor pearl street mall and preach to people.

I look back at it as one chapter in my spiritual journey.

I'm impressed with myself then. I pretty much accelerated past that without having to go thru all the bs

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I think thats good and that is definately a calling on some people lives. God has a purpose for all of us- I personally am not that forward trying to win people to the lord- I gues its not my calling. I do however wait until a door opens and then try and tell them about the Love God has for them. Now I'm NOWHERE close to perfect(wish I was) but the best way to get peoples attention is to just try and live your life for the Lord and people will naturally be drawn to you, then when the door opens -you can tell them about Him. I have 1000 excuses of why I don't read my Bible like I should- pray as much as I should- let my anger get the best of me from time to time- use foul language from time to time, but each time I loose grip- I ask the Lord for forgivness and to help me improve myself in these areas- I am a work in progress, but I will say this--- Sinse I gave my life to the Lord and put him first in my marriage- I have never loked back and have truely been blessed. We pray as a family before meals and before bed- we pray over each other when sickness tries to attach itself to one of us- and we pray over any trips that we take that we are protected- we also pray that we always have MORE than enough to meet our needs and God hasn't failed me even though I have failed him time and time again- he still Loves me and accepts me- I just ask for forgiveness and that His Mercy and Grace abides in my life.

*Please don't any of you take this as me cramming anything down anyones throat- I'm just expressing my views and I don't judge any of you from your beliefs