CHRISTIANS

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

The main reason I posted that was how would you feel about your wife or children if they got sick or hurt.If you dont beleive in god then what would you do to help them.See if its difficult why found your way out when beleiving in something is so much better then not to beleive in something

It's difficult because of social pressure (I've physically met 5 other atheists in my lifetime) and the way the christian religion is like a trap once accepted. Doubt can lead to eternal hell; if your questioning these beliefs, that implies doubt, otherwise you wouldn't be questioning them. Most people aren't going to risk eternity just for the opportunity to question their beliefs. Now introduce the idea of the devil fighting for souls in a spiritual battle and that just ostracizes you even more if you talk about your questions to other followers. They will respond that your letting the devil get to you and you need to fight him off with prayer.

The perceived benefits of being a theist are not worth the sacrifice your making with your mind. My objective is to integrate my mind with non-contradicting positions and beliefs; not to compartmentalize it with different standards of hope, faith and logic. The more integrated your mind gets the better it works. Dzone may be able to attest to this also or maybe he hasn't made it that far yet but it's pretty freakin cool.

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

He also said that while he was lying there and wondeirn gwhat step to take next, never did it cross his mind to pray and ask for help.
He simply reasoned with himself and went deeper into the crevasse to later emerge.

I believe him. Prayer would be a sign of despair; if your in despair you've given up. If you haven't given up you going to be figuring how to survive and despair is only going to impair your abilities to reason.

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

For religion to control people; first people have to submit to the irrational ideas of others. That's all religion is. People surrender their own mind for an irrational philosophy that is justified with faith. Yeah, people in power exploit this but how do you exploit a people committed to reason? With an equal exchange of compensation? In other words capitalism? LOL It's philosophical. I mean why are our politicians irratioanl? They sacrifice long term success for the instant gratification of "doing" something.

Compartmentalizing. We have scientists/engineers that commit to reason at work and then go home discard reason for faith. We have people who push the ideas of government mandated minimum wage and health care but then wonder why American industries are moving off shore? The examples go on and on. This is pragmatism and it cannot survive in a rational society and it leads to statism. It's ironic to see how much conservatives hate statism but they won't pick up the one weapon that would annihilate it, because it would also destroy their faith. Liberals hate religion but they won't pick up the one weapon that would destroy it because it would destroy their hopes of statism.

so? probobly why they are successful scientist/engineers! some of the greatest minds in history were religious!!!
Copernicus
Galileo Galilei
Isaac Newton
Albert Einstein
William Thomson Kelvin
probobly not the way you want to take this...i know your smart, but are you william kelvin smart? (if you are, you should have WAY more shyt to do then play verbal vollyball with me!!)

it may be ironic, but not surprising....it'd be an easy way to end you political career!!!

(ok...now i'm kinda sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see what you got to say about the "dumb" engineers/scientist's that i posted believed in god...you got something...c'mon....)

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I believe him. Prayer would be a sign of despair; if your in despair you've given up. If you haven't given up you going to be figuring how to survive and despair is only going to impair your abilities to reason.

Good points Klash.
But I could see saying a prayer and then getting busy working on getting your arse up and moving.

Prayer isn't always a sign of despair - it could be a simple way of asking for an extra helping hand while one does their absolute best to make the most of the situation. Or saying "I'm gonna do my best - And although I'm not expecting you to make a magic rope appear - hopefully you got my back! And I can make the right decision about which turn to take in this blackness of a hole"

Just because someone prays doesn't mean they give up on life, living or themselves.
To sit there and pray for help and do nothing - well that my friend is a different situation altogether.

I do see you're point - but there could be another way to look at it.


Sal

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

so? probobly why they are successful scientist/engineers! some of the greatest minds in history were religious!!!
Copernicus
Galileo Galilei
Isaac Newton
Albert Einstein
William Thomson Kelvin
probobly not the way you want to take this...i know your smart, but are you william kelvin smart? (if you are, you should have WAY more shyt to do then play verbal vollyball with me!!)

it may be ironic, but not surprising....it'd be an easy way to end you political career!!!

(ok...now i'm kinda sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see what you got to say about the "dumb" engineers/scientist's that i posted believed in god...you got something...c'mon....)

Dude, Einstein was an atheist or as he put it "Spinoza's god" which is a pantheist and pantheists are just romanticizing atheism.

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Dude, you just undermined your credibility, Einstein was an atheist or as he put it "Spinoza's god" which is a pantheist and pantheists are just romanticizing atheism.

Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

wow...my credibility has been restored!!!! (man...that was a fast restoration job!!!)
tamato, tamoto...i didnt say he was christian, (i noticed you only picked the one guy out of the MANY i posted...care to doubt another? should i post more?), he's religious!! that was my point. clearly his referance to god creating our world would be a clue to this, no?

dude...if you want to be included in the small group of the greatest minds in history, you need to quit trying to convince people that your athiest!! i know it sounds cool...i know it make for facinating conversation...but to claim your something that just dont exist is kinda silly....

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

wow...my credibility has been restored!!!! (man...that was a fast restoration job!!!)
tamato, tamoto...i didnt say he was christian, (i noticed you only picked the one guy out of the MANY i posted...care to doubt another? should i post more?), he's religious!! that was my point. clearly his referance to god creating our world would be a clue to this, no?

dude...if you want to be included in the small group of the greatest minds in history, you need to quit trying to convince people that your athiest!! i know it sounds cool...i know it make for facinating conversation...but to claim your something that just dont exist is kinda silly....

Come on bro... You think I'm going to let you get away with that? You said "some of the greatest minds in history were religious" and then listed Einstein. Even though I haven't read of some of things in that excerpt, it still doesn't support a personal god and thus a religious god.

Atheist do exist. Everyone is an atheist when they are born. You have to be INDOCTRINATED to believe in a revelation of god.

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Come on bro... You think I'm going to let you get away with that? You said "some of the greatest minds in history were religious" and then listed Einstein. Even though I haven't read of some of things in that excerpt, it still doesn't support a personal god and thus a religious god.

Atheist do exist. Everyone is an atheist when they are born. You have to be INDOCTRINATED to believe in a revelation of god.

Well -
I don't think I have a personal GOD - I would think myself more along the line of what Einstein has said - what little I have read about anyway.

And I certainly don't have a religious GOD - does that make me an Atheist?
If so, I'm OK with that too!

I'm pretty easy all in all - just don't let the ladies know about that!


Sal

[horsepwr]

Re: CHRISTIANS

It sounds like Spinoza's God to Einstein is sort of how it is to allot of people. "God reveals himself in everything"...personal to no-one, but part of everyone...blah blah....

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Come on bro... You think I'm going to let you get away with that? You said "some of the greatest minds in history were religious" and then listed Einstein. Even though I haven't read of some of things in that excerpt, it still doesn't support a personal god and thus a religious god.

Atheist do exist. Everyone is an atheist when they are born. You have to be INDOCTRINATED to believe in a revelation of god.

you dont want to go through that list one at a time? you think that list, a very partial list, is full of idiots and dim wits? you wouldnt agree that, those are some of the greaest minds in history? your just gonna split hairs with eintein? you might wanna read some of those things youer blowing off...it may be relevant to your position. personal god or whatever...he was NOT an ateist (i wouldnt think someone so smart would be something that dosnt exist...kinda silly huh?), he believed in something...what proof did he have?
here's more of: "some of the greatest minds in history were religious"

Gregor Mendel
Robert Boyle
Johannes Kepler
Sir Francis Bacon

more foolish believers!!!
you can say "atheist exist, atheist exist" all you want....just as i can say "god exist"...we dont believe eachother...thats all. i dont believe in atheist's. i've never seen proof that they exist...just people that claim to be one...how many people claim to have a visions of god or angels each year? do you believe them? i cant prove that they did or they didnt, but they BELIEVE they did....like a supossed atheist...just gotta take their word for it or dont!

i like the... "Everyone is an atheist when they are born" thing...i've heard that before. they also cant walk, talk and continue to drool on themselves for a couple years...not the smartest mutherfuker on the planet at that point. i dont think i want to follow the rashinal of an infant....good try though

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

If you believe in nothing- you'll fall for anything!

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^i still like that "born" thing...lets see i cant follow the thaughts of Copernicus, Galileo and Isaac Newton....or little drooling baby timmy....lol...thats funny

[horsepwr]

Re: CHRISTIANS

i like the... "Everyone is an atheist when they are born" thing...i've heard that before. they also cant walk, talk and continue to drool on themselves for a couple years...not the smartest mutherfuker on the planet at that point. i dont think i want to follow the rashinal of an infant....good try though

my ribs are gonna be sore from that shyt.lmao!..oh man...I needed that

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I think you guys are being a bit too hard on Klash now - though I'm sure he can handle it. - Of course I have to go back and read the past 3 pages - he may have it coming! LOL!!!

He's stated what he thinks and backed it up with reasoning and explained it and why.
If everyone keeps going back to have him or anyone to rehash what they've already said and explained then such person is going to try and 'over-explain' it to simplify things and that's when things get all out of sorts.

We're not here to try and get him to admit he is a believer in an invisible GOD - nor do I get the feeling he's trying to get anyone to denounce it.

It's just a posting of opinions and beliefs and why.

Let's keep it on point as best we can and be open to trying to understand someone of the opposing view can have that view. We don't have to agree but we can be accepting of it and do our best to understand it.

If we truly don't understand, then a simplified version will be presented - even if it's in reference to an infant. But just questioning and doubting someones viewpoint or opinion doesn't do any of us any good.

I truly like to hear all of the different views on this and I don't want to see it come to an end because there are opposing opinions or beliefs.


Sal

[daved150]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I think you guys are being a bit too hard on Klash now - though I'm sure he can handle it. - Of course I have to go back and read the past 3 pages - he may have it coming! LOL!!!

He's stated what he thinks and backed it up with reasoning and explained it and why.
If everyone keeps going back to have him or anyone to rehash what they've already said and explained then such person is going to try and 'over-explain' it to simplify things and that's when things get all out of sorts.

We're not here to try and get him to admit he is a believer in an invisible GOD - nor do I get the feeling he's trying to get anyone to denounce it.

It's just a posting of opinions and beliefs and why.

Let's keep it on point as best we can and be open to trying to understand someone of the opposing view can have that view. We don't have to agree but we can be accepting of it and do our best to understand it.

If we truly don't understand, then a simplified version will be presented - even if it's in reference to an infant. But just questioning and doubting someones viewpoint or opinion doesn't do any of us any good.

I truly like to hear all of the different views on this and I don't want to see it come to an end because there are opposing opinions or beliefs.


Sal

ummmm...your right...you need to read the last 3 or 6 pages. no ones piling on klash and i dont think he feels that way. me and klash are tight and he's stating his position, and i'm stating mine. he's doing it his way and me, mine....if i hurt his feelings.......well.....fuk him...take your pink weights and go to someone else's gym ya pansy!!! LMAO....
naaaaa...he knows better. i got alot of respect for klash (even when he's wrong) and i'm betting this thread has been pretty entertaining.