Truth about the Golden Compass movie

[PL456]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

This movie is just another example of the world attempting to corrupt, on the sly, our kids and our belief system. As parents we are called to protect our children from things they cannot protect themselves from, not give them options. It takes more strength to say no than to say yes. I was disgusted when I saw scholastic selling this garbage to our kids in schools. Kids that have little parental influence, or parents that are "cool" and "enlightened" will no doubt open the door for this trash to come into their homes. Im not saying ban it, Im just saying that we that have beliefs that are greater than this world dont have to buy it. There are so many other fulfilling books and movies, why watch this garbage? If your kid is 17, 18, fine..but this movie is obviously targeted at the vulnerable 4th,5th,6th grade--middle schoolers in an attempt to get them to read the books whereby Pullman's ideology is fully exposed. It is a fact that the ideology was watered down for the movie version. And before you come with all that read it or watch it before you judge it.. I dont have to. I have read the author's own comments about religion and there is no way I would ever expose my child to this man's worldview. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. If we lose those core beliefs and ideas, we cease to become what our founders put in place and become some relative-morality based chaos. I think we have already slipped too far from the founding fathers intentions. The ACLU and atheists are trying to get God excluded from every aspect of our lives. Pile on boys, its the cool thing to do. The ACLU is the number one threat to this nation, even moreso than al-queda in my opinion. Well, Ive read The Book, and I know how it all ends. God wins.

[daved150]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

dude...i respect your opinion, and maybe you need to oversee your kids every move. my kids are smart...not just book smart, but they have common sence. my 6th grader can read just about anything she wants. if she has questions (witch she does often) she's not affraid to ask. sorry...i wasnt censored, and i wont do that to my kids. they'll have a wide array of information to draw from and make their own conclussions. i just guide. i instill the values i believe they need to make the right decissions with the information they take in. i believe that's in the best intrest of all.

[Rolsroyce]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

yeah, ACLU sucks balls

[CNIZZ]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

Its too bad Pullman is British or we could burn him for being a witch like the Judeo-Christian founding fathers. Im almost certain this country was founded under the ideals of freedom of religion, and that the pilgrims left England because of religious persecution. This closed mindedness is the EXACT reason why I am not Christian like my parents lead me to believe in as a child, I think it is absolutely hypocritical to condemn people because they do not follow the same belief system and threaten them with the prospect of Hell. How are we any better than Al-Queda if we censor all other religions and condemn anyone who follows those religions PL?

[mandarb11]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

Its too bad Pullman is British or we could burn him for being a witch like the Judeo-Christian founding fathers. Im almost certain this country was founded under the ideals of freedom of religion, and that the pilgrims left England because of religious persecution. This closed mindedness is the EXACT reason why I am not Christian like my parents lead me to believe in as a child, I think it is absolutely hypocritical to condemn people because they do not follow the same belief system and threaten them with the prospect of Hell. How are we any better than Al-Queda if we censor all other religions and condemn anyone who follows those religions PL?

Too true, I love how everyone spouts talk of freedom etc and talk about censurship....that my friends is called findamentalism, and whether it is Christian or Muslim or Jewish or whatever, it is dangerous! The founding fathers of the United States were intellectuals, they emerged from the enlightenment, and while they were are from perfect they were able to use logic and reason to determine what they wanted for the United States. Imagine how their legacy is being used to stop people from thinking for themselves! To be able to make a reasonable decision one needs all the information available. This book you would need to really look hard ot try to get that he is trying to "kill god". In fact I was looking for his works online at amazon and came across some books about his trilogy, one of them was actually a theologin that said he is actually showing a beutiful world where good triumphs over evil. Here is the book:


Shedding Light On His Dark Materials
Best selling authors of Finding God in the Lord of the Rings Kurt Bruner and Jim Ware team up again in a study of Philip Pullmans popular His Dark Materials fantasy series. Unlike authors such as J. R. R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis, Pullman writes from an intentionally anti-Christian perspective. As the authors explore Pullmans themes, characters, and charges against Christianity, they ultimately conclude that though Pullman intended to do just the opposite, he has created a cosmos that seems to confirm the existence of a loving God--one where truth wins out over deception, grace trumps the virtue of self-reliance, and relationship is prized above independence. Released in conjunction with the major feature film, Shedding Light on His Dark Materials will equip parents, teachers, and readers to better understand and respond to Pullmans brilliant but troubling work.

As I said the book and the movie do not explicitly take like he is trying to kill the idea of "God". Here is a couple scholars using the work to illistrate Christian ideals actually are expressed in this work. Also his book won the parental choice award back in 1999. It was published back in 1995 and yet here we are now hearing about it due to the "controversy". Obviously this message is not to strong if no one picked up on it for 12 years and awarded it parents choice award. Enjoy the story because that is all it is!

[Klash]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

This movie is just another example of the world attempting to corrupt, on the sly, our kids and our belief system. As parents we are called to protect our children from things they cannot protect themselves from, not give them options. It takes more strength to say no than to say yes. I was disgusted when I saw scholastic selling this garbage to our kids in schools. Kids that have little parental influence, or parents that are "cool" and "enlightened" will no doubt open the door for this trash to come into their homes. Im not saying ban it, Im just saying that we that have beliefs that are greater than this world dont have to buy it. There are so many other fulfilling books and movies, why watch this garbage? If your kid is 17, 18, fine..but this movie is obviously targeted at the vulnerable 4th,5th,6th grade--middle schoolers in an attempt to get them to read the books whereby Pullman's ideology is fully exposed. It is a fact that the ideology was watered down for the movie version. And before you come with all that read it or watch it before you judge it.. I dont have to. I have read the author's own comments about religion and there is no way I would ever expose my child to this man's worldview. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. If we lose those core beliefs and ideas, we cease to become what our founders put in place and become some relative-morality based chaos. I think we have already slipped too far from the founding fathers intentions. The ACLU and atheists are trying to get God excluded from every aspect of our lives. Pile on boys, its the cool thing to do. The ACLU is the number one threat to this nation, even moreso than al-queda in my opinion. Well, Ive read The Book, and I know how it all ends. God wins.

Referring to "Ive read The Book, and I know how it all ends. God wins"; as Al Pacino said in the "Devil's Advocate" "consider the source." I just love that line.

This country was not founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, despite what Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham and many other conservative pundits say. Yeah, many were Christian; many were deists but their consensus was to separate religion from state - not create a Christian Nation. Tell me how the term "creator" in the Declaration of Independence refers to YHWH or Jesus; as an atheist I could interpret that to refer to pantheism where god is the omniverse - just another way of saying atheist. Now has the nation been influenced by Judeo-Christian beliefs from before the time of its Independence - yeah, it led to the Salem witch trials.

Religion does not define morality, it restricts it. If someone is perceived to be "good" but their motivation is to avoid the threat of force (hell); they are not "good" by anyone's standards, they are coerced. The fact that the threat of force is a delusion, only makes the situation confusing. Socialist and Marxists fall for this same flawed premise. If I hold a gun to a rich man's head and demand him to give the bum beside him a $1,000 and he does so is the rich man acting morally in that action? This is the premise for the religious and socialist/communist morality.

[PL456]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

klash,
you claim that the USA has been influenced by Christianity in the form of the salem witch trials. Is this the only way in which our country has been influenced?
What about the countless charities, childrens homes, hospitals, counseling centers, schools, benefits for the needy, homeless, and orphaned that have been founded and funded by Christian organizations. I, personally, do not see atheist organizations founding the countless organizations as these. To say what you said regarding the witch trials, in such as callous manner, exposes your true nature. Religion is bad in your mind--you have no tolerance.
You have the ability to go against religion, because of Christianity. Name a Christian country today that kills non-believers. Name a place in the New Testament that says it is OK to kill non believers. You have the ability to be intolerant of Christianity, because of Christianity. No matter the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. People make mistakes. People are not God. I have stated this before. This is a technique used by satan to blind you and other non believers. You find one or two issues and hold on, rationalizing your belief. You deny Christ's holiness, His fulfillment of millenia of prediction of His initial coming, while saying that, well, since people claimed to be Christians did these things, religion is bad. Lets say a policeman shoots a kid because the cop thought the kid had a gun, turns out it was a cell phone...are all cops bad? Is the law a bad thing? Now, you'll say that people do things in the name of religion. What the cop did was done in the name of the law. What Im saying is that people are fallible. People make errors, sometimes tragically.

Regarding the issue of hell, it is true that those who deny Christ, rebel against Him, and do not accept Him into their heart after hearing His message are to be condemned. This is called free choice. Those who belive and accept Jesus into their heart do not fear hell, and are not living the Christian life based on fear. You are incorrect in this regard. I do not fear hell. I know I am saved. Once again, perhaps, a little is revealed through your statements. I am not saying who goes and who doesnt go, only God the Father judges the heart. We here on earth may judge behavior, but not the heart of the person. We judge behaviors, such as the behaviors and motives of the author of this movie, and we deem them harmful to our children. I am tolerant of this movie, I never called for a ban of it. Yet, some atheists propose of ban of all religious practice. A friend of the world is an enemy to God. Jeer all you want, I love it, for non believers jeered Christ years ago. I consider it an honor to be taken to task for Christ, as He was beaten up in the world those years ago. You guys fall right in line with those who beat and chastised the Lord 2000 years ago. People have not changed, and the world has not changed. Jesus came to save us from the world. This ridiculous movie is of the world, is of satan. I, for one, choose not to support it with the money the Lord enabled me to make. By paying money to see this movie, I am taking from the Lord and giving to satan. Yes, things are not going to come into my house..pornography, violence, sexual immorality, profane language, dishonesty, greed, disobedience, things that the world celebrates as "cool". You guys can do what you want, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

[Phreak]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

I love CS Lewis' work and I am in the process of reading this one. I have no problem with children reading a story from either type of author, this is exactly how we gain knowledge and only a knowledgible person can make a good decision. I am an athiest and yet I do not censure my children from any information, I let them learn about Christianity and that they have a choice in what they wish to beleive. This is just a book, a fantasy story that tells a tale, if it was not brought up that the author was an athiest none of this uproar would have occurred. This is actually an old book yet no one protested it before Hollywood (not the author) decided to make a movie about it. Kids are not going to hate the Roman Catholic church (which is the actual target of Pullman) from this movie, they are going to get a "Narnia" experience from it. Read the book and see the movie before you form an opinion of it! How can you critique something you have not read? It is the same criteria we must used for everything. I for one am looking forward to finishing the trilogy and watching the movie.

great post

calm down there little christians... you'll be just fine.

[Phreak]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

This movie is just another example of the world attempting to corrupt, on the sly, our kids and our belief system. As parents we are called to protect our children from things they cannot protect themselves from, not give them options. It takes more strength to say no than to say yes. I was disgusted when I saw scholastic selling this garbage to our kids in schools. Kids that have little parental influence, or parents that are "cool" and "enlightened" will no doubt open the door for this trash to come into their homes. Im not saying ban it, Im just saying that we that have beliefs that are greater than this world dont have to buy it. There are so many other fulfilling books and movies, why watch this garbage? If your kid is 17, 18, fine..but this movie is obviously targeted at the vulnerable 4th,5th,6th grade--middle schoolers in an attempt to get them to read the books whereby Pullman's ideology is fully exposed. It is a fact that the ideology was watered down for the movie version. And before you come with all that read it or watch it before you judge it.. I dont have to. I have read the author's own comments about religion and there is no way I would ever expose my child to this man's worldview. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. If we lose those core beliefs and ideas, we cease to become what our founders put in place and become some relative-morality based chaos. I think we have already slipped too far from the founding fathers intentions. The ACLU and atheists are trying to get God excluded from every aspect of our lives. Pile on boys, its the cool thing to do. The ACLU is the number one threat to this nation, even moreso than al-queda in my opinion. Well, Ive read The Book, and I know how it all ends. God wins.

thankfully, this line of thought will no longer influence our govt as heavily as it has the past 8 years. change is on the way.

not personally insulting you bro, because you have the right to believe whatever you want, but your mindset truly frightens me. your mindset assumes that people can be taught to believe anything, that free thought doesn't exist, therefore anything we are exposed to has the ability to corrupt us.

the assumption you make basically states that there is no free will. i don't see free will in the society you envision.

people with this mindset burn books, censor music, and try to control what is taught in schools because it doesn't jive with YOUR beliefs, damn everybody else. why should everyone experience life at your standards? why can't you just live your life and leave the rest of us to ours?

why can't people be exposed to stories that have atheistic themes? they are exposed to plenty of judeo christian themes from all angles. as long as those who don't believe the same as you aren't hurting others, why should you care? who the hell are you to tell me what i can see?

that isn't a free society.

i don't go around telling people not to believe in god just because i don't. why can't the religious right not just keep it to themselves?

once again, this isn't a personal attack on anyone, i am just passionate about this subject, because i came up southern baptist.

[Phreak]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

pl456, now that i read my post, i think it is more directed at the man quoted in the first post than you.

[Klash]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

klash,
you claim that the USA has been influenced by Christianity in the form of the salem witch trials. Is this the only way in which our country has been influenced?
What about the countless charities, childrens homes, hospitals, counseling centers, schools, benefits for the needy, homeless, and orphaned that have been founded and funded by Christian organizations.

Yes people do these things in the name of religion but is religion required? I value human life, the innocence of children, the need for education, compassion for the homeless and orphaned; I am not religious.

I, personally, do not see atheist organizations founding the countless organizations as these.

There are a few reasons there are not well known atheist organizations.

It is estimated that atheists make up between 10 and 15 percent of the population.

The majority of atheists incorrectly believe that the state should take care of the unfortunate and IMO since they incorrectly see the government as a charitable source they do not organize for those issues.

Another distinct advantage theists have over atheists is organization. Most religions meet at least once a week.

To say what you said regarding the witch trials, in such as callous manner, exposes your true nature. Religion is bad in your mind--you have no tolerance.

Religion is bad. The whole premise denies logic, denying logic can ultimately lead to witch trials or any number of irrational events. I have tolerance for people wanting to practice religion; I don't have tolerance for people who can not recognize I don't want to live by their religion or the moral code that was derived from it but some of these people insist upon forcing it unto me through their politicians.

You have the ability to go against religion, because of Christianity. Name a Christian country today that kills non-believers. Name a place in the New Testament that says it is OK to kill non believers. You have the ability to be intolerant of Christianity, because of Christianity.

Killing non-believers is wrong? What does your god do to non-believers?

No matter the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. People make mistakes. People are not God. I have stated this before. This is a technique used by satan to blind you and other non believers. You find one or two issues and hold on, rationalizing your belief. You deny Christ's holiness, His fulfillment of millenia of prediction of His initial coming, while saying that, well, since people claimed to be Christians did these things, religion is bad. Lets say a policeman shoots a kid because the cop thought the kid had a gun, turns out it was a cell phone...are all cops bad? Is the law a bad thing? Now, you'll say that people do things in the name of religion. What the cop did was done in the name of the law. What Im saying is that people are fallible. People make errors, sometimes tragically.

To be a cop you are not required to forgo the use of reason. It is a prerequisite for religion. It does not take a creative imagination to predict the inhumane results of faith; we have a history full of it.

Regarding the issue of hell, it is true that those who deny Christ, rebel against Him, and do not accept Him into their heart after hearing His message are to be condemned. This is called free choice. Those who belive and accept Jesus into their heart do not fear hell, and are not living the Christian life based on fear. You are incorrect in this regard. I do not fear hell. I know I am saved.

Free choice? If I hold a gun to you and tell you to give me all your money - yes, you have the choice to die or give me the money but it's not much of a choice because of the threat of force. Christianity and free choice is a contradiction in terms. Our bodies stimuli give us pleasure to enforce survive and pain to enforce the avoidance of death. Religion appeals to our will to survive.

[Phreak]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

i have an 18yr old son, a 12yr old daughter and a 9yr old son. FOR THE MOST PART, i too let them make their own decissions. now, that being said...i try to guide. i dont force religion. i force pride in ones self, dont lie, cheat or steal and to, in general, do the right thing. i believe if you instill the right values, they will make the best decissions for themselves. we'll watch this movie together, as a family, as we do most other movies. if you give your kids some rope...they wont always hang themselves!

+1000

that's what i'm talking about

[mandarb11]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

I hate to say it but the more I read "some peoples" posts on here the more the comparision of muslim fundamentalists springs to mind. They say their way is the only way, they censure knowledge, subject people to their thoughts and beleifs, and if given the power outright kill in the thoughts that they are in the right.

Also about athiest charity, I give to charity all the time, I have 2 sponsor children in Africa that cost me $60 a month alone not to mention all the other funds I donate throughout the year....as I said much earlier in the thread, Athiests tend to be humanists, which translates into a care for our fellow humans.

And PL456 it makes me shake my head in wonder how you flaunt your misunderstanding of Christianity. You "know" that you are one of the saved? Wow, when I questioned you about your hateful posts (torture, murder, intolerance) all you replied was that I was judging you. If I beleived in this God of love and said all these things I would not be to sure of a place in paradise. I do know of a religion that does encourage that type of behaviour though, they look up to a guy named Mohammed, you may just want to check it out!

[CNIZZ]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

Christianity and free choice is a contradiction in terms.

On the route this is headed the thread is going to be more than hijacked, but its hard not to want to contribute at this point.

Free choice and Klash' argument that you must depose reason in order to accept religion and faith go hand in hand. Using basic logic and reasoning:

IF the Christian God is all-knowing, a basic fundamental truth in Christianity...

How can there be any choice or free will? God is supposedly all knowing, therefore the present, future, and past have all been forseen. If the future is predecided then the future is already written and cannot be changed. If the future is already written there can be no free choice and no free will, as these things would have been predecided by God.

This being the case, Athiests are not choosing to 'rebel' against Christianity, the all-knowing omnipresent God has already decided they are to be Athiests and they will be punished and burn in hell for a choice they were not given.

Any argument from a Christian that states otherwise is a contradiction to their beliefs.

[PL456]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

You guys are totally lost. It amazes me at times how the worldview can corrupt the mind. As I said, condemn all you want. For we are told that as the people condemned Jesus, we too will be condemned.

now, klash..as to the first point--the salem witch thing--I was only asking you if you thought that Christian, or religious organizations,had contributed in any other way to our country's past..(in any positive way, specifically).

Secondly, I tend to agree with you that some want the govt to care for society's underprivilged (socialism)..I was referring to large, organized atheist groups performing the volume of charity work that religious groups do.

Thirdly,
I understand you think religion is bad. How is logic cast away when there is recorded evidence of Jesus' many miracles, the fact that He was seen by many unrelated and unbiased people after His death? This is recorded history. This is no urban legend. Further, "faith" is the by word here, as well. Faith is belief and turst in the unseen. Faith requires a security, and a letting go of control. It is a freeing experience. Christians know that this world is fallen and people will almost always disappoint you. Jesus will never leave or forsake you. The myth that religious people are control freaks is untrue. We acknowledge that we need the Lord's help in life to fully live.

Fourth,
you apparently could not answer this question regarding a Christian nation that kills non believers. Look at the oppressive regimes. They are controlled by men who place themselves at the level of a god. Have been for years. Regarding non believers, in the end, God passes judement on them and determines their eternal fate. Goats to the left, sheep to the right.

Fifth,
the cop thing was my attempt to say that you persist in associating people's actions with God. God is not a person. Please do not look at what people do and base your eternal fate on people's actions.
You must study the Bible, walk in the Word daily, and develop a relationship with God. He will speak to you. This is a very intimate thing, between you and your creator.

Lastly,
Initially, their was Adam and Eve and everything was great. When the original sin was committed, our eyes were opened--tree of knowledge-- and we fell away from God. Free will came into play. God allows free will, our will to choose. This is why we are told to teach our children about God, so they will choose life. We look to defend our children against the world until they can defend themselves. It is a fact that if you deny Christ and rebel against God, you will be judged harshly. God is a jealous god (please see 1st commandment). But, He is also merciful. If you truly repent of sin, and believe in Jesus Christ, you will be saved. The trick here, of course, is truly repenting. Once you do, and allow Christ into your heart, you have no fear. The Bible says that we should not fear the one who can kill the body, but we should fear the one who can kill the soul. God made us, and He wants us to be with Him. It saddens God to have anyone deny Him. Angels in Heaven cry for each of you that do not believe.

Now, mandbar, what posts of mine are you referring to as hateful?

I have never tried to force anything on anybody. We are having a discussion and our views are pretty much polar opposite. I have never felt as though you guys are forcing atheism on me, I have not intentionally tried to force anything on you. Naturally, I am passionate about this topic (it is, after all, eternity). I am simply stating facts. Interesting how the defenses come up when things get down to the nitty gritty.

CNIZZ..
I believe you are getting off into predetermination land--this is false. In this lifetime, we are presented a choice. God is omnipotent and all knowing, but He chose to allow free will. God wishes for us to be with Him, but it is our choice. We are given mny chances, and are exposed to His word frequently. You either choose to accept it or not. Please, review a Bible, you will see..
God judges the heart of man, and if the heart is hardened, God acts accordingly.