Truth about the Golden Compass movie

[Klash]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

now, klash..as to the first point--the salem witch thing--I was only asking you if you thought that Christian, or religious organizations,had contributed in any other way to our country's past..(in any positive way, specifically).

Were there good people who influenced our nation in a positive way that were Christians - I'm sure there are. I am sure there were some good people who served Apollo in Rome too. Doesn't mean they were right or that the philosophy itself is not destructive.

Secondly, I tend to agree with you that some want the govt to care for society's underprivilged (socialism)..I was referring to large, organized atheist groups performing the volume of charity work that religious groups do.

I gave you several reasons why I believe atheists do not organize large groups that result in charitable contributions in comparison to theist organizations. I'll give another one though:

Theists meet up several times a week to "worship" their common idea of god. Charity is a great way to spread the doctrine and the influence of your church, which ultimately leads to more success for the church, in members, tithing and the after-life.

Atheists would use an already established charity instead of creating one with the word atheist in it. Atheist's charitable contributions are just that - charity, without the incentive of it coming back. Theists can have ulterior motives.

Thirdly,
I understand you think religion is bad. How is logic cast away when there is recorded evidence of Jesus' many miracles, the fact that He was seen by many unrelated and unbiased people after His death? This is recorded history. This is no urban legend. Further, "faith" is the by word here, as well. Faith is belief and turst in the unseen. Faith requires a security, and a letting go of control. It is a freeing experience. Christians know that this world is fallen and people will almost always disappoint you. Jesus will never leave or forsake you. The myth that religious people are control freaks is untrue. We acknowledge that we need the Lord's help in life to fully live.

The Bible is not recorded evidence. It is supposedly eye witness accounts. UFO's, Nessie, Big Foot, ghosts, vampires, elvis, 9/11 truthers, Santa, elves, fairies, etc. all have supposedly eye witness' accounts. Most of us doubt the nightly news now days and that is without the contradiction to the laws of physics that the reporters in the Bible state happened.
People believe in faith because they see a perceived benefit from the belief.

Fourth,
you apparently could not answer this question regarding a Christian nation that kills non believers. Look at the oppressive regimes. They are controlled by men who place themselves at the level of a god. Have been for years. Regarding non believers, in the end, God passes judement on them and determines their eternal fate. Goats to the left, sheep to the right.

What I don't understand, is the premise of your question. It seems you are attempting to point out Christians are more tolerant in this life than oppressive regimes. Yet your idea of god is more oppressive than any regime this world has ever seen. Oppressive regimes in this life can only kill you. Your god does what oppressive regimes would do but he has the power and the will to not let people die. Why? Because he is a bigot (by definition); people didn't believe the way he wanted them too.

Oh and to answer your question.
Jericho! In the words of your own Bible. Summarizing - slaughter every woman, child and old timer; ordered by your god.

Fifth,
the cop thing was my attempt to say that you persist in associating people's actions with God. God is not a person. Please do not look at what people do and base your eternal fate on people's actions.
You must study the Bible, walk in the Word daily, and develop a relationship with God. He will speak to you. This is a very intimate thing, between you and your creator.

I don't persist in associating people's actions with god, I have no belief in a god. I do believe, however, if you observe an irrational person; you will find him to have an irrational philosophy. If someone believes premarital sex is immoral, I can guarantee you they have an irrational philosophy. If they believe saying the name of their invisible friend, in vein, is immoral; they have an irrational philosophy. If they believe taking control of a woman's body to protect the soul of a fertilized egg is moral; they have an irrational philosophy. If they burn "witches"; they have an irrational philosophy.

Lastly,
Initially, their was Adam and Eve and everything was great. When the original sin was committed, our eyes were opened--tree of knowledge-- and we fell away from God. Free will came into play. God allows free will, our will to choose. This is why we are told to teach our children about God, so they will choose life. We look to defend our children against the world until they can defend themselves. It is a fact that if you deny Christ and rebel against God, you will be judged harshly. God is a jealous god (please see 1st commandment). But, He is also merciful. If you truly repent of sin, and believe in Jesus Christ, you will be saved. The trick here, of course, is truly repenting. Once you do, and allow Christ into your heart, you have no fear. The Bible says that we should not fear the one who can kill the body, but we should fear the one who can kill the soul. God made us, and He wants us to be with Him. It saddens God to have anyone deny Him. Angels in Heaven cry for each of you that do not believe.

This is the tactic of unearned guilt. You owe god because you are human. This doesn't make any sense. If god created everything, he created humans, he created sin, the inheritance of sin, the punishments of the sinful and the solution to sin - him. So we owe god because he wanted us too. We are all sinners by default, because we are human. I don't see how anyone can view the idea of the Christian god with anything but contempt.

CNIZZ..
I believe you are getting off into predetermination land--this is false. In this lifetime, we are presented a choice. God is omnipotent and all knowing, but He chose to allow free will. God wishes for us to be with Him, but it is our choice. We are given mny chances, and are exposed to His word frequently. You either choose to accept it or not. Please, review a Bible, you will see..
God judges the heart of man, and if the heart is hardened, God acts accordingly.

To use the Bible as your only reference to what reality is, even when it is in contradiction to your own experiences, requires that you believe some men are spiritually superior than you and thus you believe in a degree of pre-destiny.

For instance, it would be much easier to believe Jesus was the son of god if you saw people walk on water, saw him turn water into wine, raise the dead, heal the sick and resurrect. Fast forward to modern day. Giving you the hypothetical that Jesus is the son of god, those brought up in a Christian environment would definitely have an advantage over those who were brought up in an Muslim environment.

So you would have to conclude that what time in history you were born, your upbringing, your educational resources and geographical location would all play a role in your statistical likely hood of believing in the Christian doctrine. Same with all other religious doctrines. So your monotheistic god, YHWH, Jesus and the holy spirit or whatever you want to call him has already gave some people a statistical advantage over others depending on what circumstances he has put their soul in.

Like I implied earlier I have studied religion so much it would be impossible for my mind to regress back to a more ignorant position. Giving you the hypothetical of your god again - I am predestined for hell.

[CNIZZ]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

****'s = Christian, according to the majority of books I've read (now I'm not even about to claim that History books are unbiased), the ****'s had a solution to the Jewish "problem" in Germany. I also remember something along the lines of thousands...? Tens of thousands...? of people, men, women, and children, being killed in the Crusades? Not allowing children to watch the Golden Compass will result in genocide.

[6p6]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

personally I think this is being blown out of preportion. If this was that big a deal we would have to ban disney movies for satanic symbolism...its make believe. do parents need to watch what children in take into their minds? hell ya they do but lets not get to carried away this isnt the new Koran or new bible or **** literature...this a book, now movie that is meant to entertain. see both sides, make your own decision...

6

[PL456]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

nicely put 6,
this has been an illuminating conversation. By stating my opinion that this movie is a bad thing from a Christian perspective (and never stating this movie should not be shown to whomever wishes to see it), we have learned that klash believes that all religion is bad, that the Bible is fiction, and apparently the events of Jesus's life were fabricated. Amazing. It truly takes more faith to be an atheist than to be a Christian.

Klash claims to have studied religion extensively. One has to wonder why one would study a topic he feels is utterly false, negative, and perverse to the human experience. Klash states many instances of irrationality, I would call this behavior irrational, based on his beliefs. Hmmm...

We are all brothers in Christ and I hope that this conversation has at least planted a seed in the mind of some who may have viewed it. Klash would have you believe that I hope this because in some way I may be a beneficiary of a future monetary contribution you may or may not make to the church of your choice at some point in the future. I assure you this is not the case.

Premarital, promiscuous sex--wrong--animals do this, we are better than animals.

Taking the Lord's name in vain--wrong--one of the 10 commandments; not to mention that profane language is a sign of crudeness and poor social refinement.

Killing an unborn baby before it is born---legal to some extent (this is wrong); killing a baby 10 minutes after it is born--murder..what is the difference? Both wrong.

Salem witch trials--wrong on all accounts. A perversion of religious doctrine.

Eternity is a long time, my friends. Look at this from a purely humanistic, if you will, standpoint. If the atheists are correct, religious people lose nothing. If religious people are correct, atheists lose eternity. Some have hardened hearts and will never be able to be reached by the Holy Spirit. If you have been moved somewhat, I urge you to at least investigate this topic. Read the story of Jesus' life. You will find the depth of God's love for you. As you develop a relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit will fill you with joy and serenity, as you will be fulfilling your role as a human being, that is to be in the Word of God. Issues in your life will become black and white, right and wrong. There will be difficult times, as there was for Jesus, but He has said that He will never leave you nor forsake you.

[Klash]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

nicely put 6,
this has been an illuminating conversation. By stating my opinion that this movie is a bad thing from a Christian perspective (and never stating this movie should not be shown to whomever wishes to see it), we have learned that klash believes that all religion is bad, that the Bible is fiction, and apparently the events of Jesus's life were fabricated. Amazing. It truly takes more faith to be an atheist than to be a Christian.

I have not stated one issue that requires faith to believe. If I have point it out and I will explain or be persuaded to change my mind.

Klash claims to have studied religion extensively. One has to wonder why one would study a topic he feels is utterly false, negative, and perverse to the human experience. Klash states many instances of irrationality, I would call this behavior irrational, based on his beliefs. Hmmm...

I read, a while back, that 30- 45 percent (can't remember the exact number) of the American population believe that their generation will see the return of Jesus. This is a fascinating cultural influence, even more so from an atheists perspective.

That, with the fact I was raised in a southern baptist environment and studied the Bible to find the truth about god.

We are all brothers in Christ and I hope that this conversation has at least planted a seed in the mind of some who may have viewed it. Klash would have you believe that I hope this because in some way I may be a beneficiary of a future monetary contribution you may or may not make to the church of your choice at some point in the future. I assure you this is not the case.

Let's assume you are innocent of this. Many, many preachers are not, religion is big business.

Premarital, promiscuous sex--wrong--animals do this, we are better than animals.

Why are you adding adjectives? I didn't say anything about promiscuous sex. I would agree that a casual selection of mates would imply a low self-esteem and would not be in ones best interest so in that way I would agree that it is immoral but not because the Bible tells me it is but premarital sex alone is not reason enough to judge someone immoral.

Eternity is a long time, my friends. Look at this from a purely humanistic, if you will, standpoint. If the atheists are correct, religious people lose nothing. If religious people are correct, atheists lose eternity. Some have hardened hearts and will never be able to be reached by the Holy Spirit. If you have been moved somewhat, I urge you to at least investigate this topic. Read the story of Jesus' life. You will find the depth of God's love for you. As you develop a relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit will fill you with joy and serenity, as you will be fulfilling your role as a human being, that is to be in the Word of God. Issues in your life will become black and white, right and wrong. There will be difficult times, as there was for Jesus, but He has said that He will never leave you nor forsake you.

This better safe than sorry argument would only work if your idea of god wasn't omniscient. Your god would know who is playing it safe and didn't actually believe in the son of god and they would be screwed for eternity anyway.

[mandarb11]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

PL456 I truly believe you understand only half of what you say.

I think I have illistrated how there is little to no evidence of a historical Jesus but no you keep making claims that there is historical evidence, please present this to us all so we can learn where your "historical" evidence exists. I have studied this so thouroughly I can assure you there is no historical evidence. But I am sure from your past posts you will just ignore this and try your preaching again, so I will not spend to much time on this post.

Faith to be an athiest, wow that is like saying you need faith to not beleive in Superman......typical lack of reason, and reason is the one thing that distinguishes us from the rest of the animal kingdom!

I will leave it there as I already am certain I am wasting my time typing this, we all know that you will never engage in reasonable discussion.

[daved150]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

PL456 I truly believe you understand only half of what you say.

I think I have illistrated how there is little to no evidence of a historical Jesus but no you keep making claims that there is historical evidence, please present this to us all so we can learn where your "historical" evidence exists. I have studied this so thouroughly I can assure you there is no historical evidence. But I am sure from your past posts you will just ignore this and try your preaching again, so I will not spend to much time on this post.

Faith to be an athiest, wow that is like saying you need faith to not beleive in Superman......typical lack of reason, and reason is the one thing that distinguishes us from the rest of the animal kingdom!

I will leave it there as I already am certain I am wasting my time typing this, we all know that you will never engage in reasonable discussion.

WOE....HEY!!! YOUR NOT BELIEVING IN SUPERMAN NOW???!! DUDE...DONT CROSS THE LINE! NO NEED TO GO THERE!

gotta admit...i love these debates! great to see and read others points of view. i also like the fact, that while each is passionate about there belief's, y'all keep it pretty cordial. good job and thatks for a great thread!

[Phreak]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

You guys are totally lost. It amazes me at times how the worldview can corrupt the mind.

yeah, don't look for a worldview on anything folks. you are all so stupid and easily corruptable that you may be brainwashed.

pl456, you are a prime example of everything that is wrong with the south.

[CNIZZ]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

i didnt want to be the one to revive this thread so thanks for making the first new post Phreak, I bought Pans Labyrinth from WalMart and it came with a free ticket to the Golden Compass which i used for AVP2 just so that the movie would show a higher gross, the athiests at Athiest Church told me to and told me to picket the newly remastered special edition of Chronicles of Narnia

[deepsouth]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

[QUOTE=Phreak;823252]yeah, don't look for a worldview on anything folks. you are all so stupid and easily corruptable that you may be brainwashed.

pl456, you are a prime example of everything that is wrong with the south


Not that I disagree with his views, we are all entitled to them, but there is no reason to drag the whole South into this

[Phreak]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

Not that I disagree with his views, we are all entitled to them, but there is no reason to drag the whole South into this

yep, we are all entitled to them, but the problem with people like pl456 is that they want to push their personal standards on everyone else. and i'm sorry, but there are more of these types in the south than anywhere else, and that's why i gtfo.

these are the people who comprise the religious right and their polotical wing. these are the people who would seek to influence the laws that EVERYONE must live under. these are the people who burn books, censor music, and put their personal doctrine into public education. **** THAT

they are the enemy of free will and should be stamped out.

man, it sounds crazy to say that! but i'm sick of their regressive, psuedo-moralistic nonsense- WHY CAN'T THEY JUST KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES?

[Klash]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

they are the enemy of free will and should be stamped out.

man, it sounds crazy to say that! but i'm sick of their regressive, psuedo-moralistic nonsense- WHY CAN'T THEY JUST KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES?

Amen brother. Love the way you put that.

[PL456]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

yep, we are all entitled to them, but the problem with people like pl456 is that they want to push their personal standards on everyone else. and i'm sorry, but there are more of these types in the south than anywhere else, and that's why i gtfo.

these are the people who comprise the religious right and their polotical wing. these are the people who would seek to influence the laws that EVERYONE must live under. these are the people who burn books, censor music, and put their personal doctrine into public education. **** THAT

they are the enemy of free will and should be stamped out.

man, it sounds crazy to say that! but i'm sick of their regressive, psuedo-moralistic nonsense- WHY CAN'T THEY JUST KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES?

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Interesting..please, find for me how I did anything other than state my views, in opposition to the vast majority of world-based views presented here. I have said nothing to the effect that other's views should be stamped out. I have merely disagreed. This is the essence of discussion. You say that my views should be stamped out...hmm..sounds rather intolerant. You people boast how tolerant you are, how inclusive you are...here you are saying we should "keep to ourselves" and how our views should be "stamped out"--not very tolerant. The Christian right does express ourselves. This is our right and obligation. You wish to "stamp us out". You wish to make Christmas a "winter holiday", yet give homosexuals marriage rights. You wish to take prayer out of school, you deny that this country was founded by religious people, yet promote abortion--the killing of an unborn baby. There is intolerance of religion, and complete tolerance of "if it feels good for ME, do it" mentality by liberals--a dual standard of tolerance.

How often do you see a religious person saying that atheists should be "stamped out"? Have I ever said that some media should be banned or prohibited? No. I have stated that we all have free will. I am not an enemy of free will, as it was given by our Heavenly Father. Why this aggression towards religion? Why should my voice by silenced just because I believe in God, the Father and His Son Jesus Christ, as well as the Holy Spirit?

The picture that was posted, Ill have you know is terribly offensive, personally. Im sure that will make you feel better. Did you have to search the net long for that, or was it something you had just lying around? Interesting how you prob took time to find that picture just to get at a religious person, borders on persecution, IMO. The man in that picture has saved my life and millions others and is my Savior. Jesus loves you and died for you, too. But, see, you love the world..dont you? You are part of this world. The world does not like Christianity because it shines a light on its own shortcomings and failures. The world crucified Jesus. Jesus said that the world disliked Him, and we as Christians should expect the world to dislike us. So, I guess Im doing something right. Thank you for treating me just like people like you treated Him 2000 years ago, it is an honor to me.

[Klash]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

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Interesting..please, find for me how I did anything other than state my views, in opposition to the vast majority of world-based views presented here. I have said nothing to the effect that other's views should be stamped out. I have merely disagreed. This is the essence of discussion. You say that my views should be stamped out...hmm..sounds rather intolerant. You people boast how tolerant you are, how inclusive you are...here you are saying we should "keep to ourselves" and how our views should be "stamped out"--not very tolerant. The Christian right does express ourselves. This is our right and obligation. You wish to "stamp us out". You wish to make Christmas a "winter holiday", yet give homosexuals marriage rights. You wish to take prayer out of school, you deny that this country was founded by religious people, yet promote abortion--the killing of an unborn baby. There is intolerance of religion, and complete tolerance of "if it feels good for ME, do it" mentality by liberals--a dual standard of tolerance.

PL456, most Christians do not have to state they want others views stamped out, it is implied when Christians want to use government force to enforce their beliefs that are based on the "revelation" of their god. They want to prevent "homosexuals" from having the same rights under the law as "heterosexuals". They want to protect the "rights" of a fetus while undermining the rights of a woman. They want to promote their religion with government schools. And lastly, at the core of the Christian doctrine is the belief that God/Jesus/HolySpirit will stamp out non-conformists for eternity.

How often do you see a religious person saying that atheists should be "stamped out"? Have I ever said that some media should be banned or prohibited? No. I have stated that we all have free will. I am not an enemy of free will, as it was given by our Heavenly Father. Why this aggression towards religion? Why should my voice by silenced just because I believe in God, the Father and His Son Jesus Christ, as well as the Holy Spirit?

This is why Christians can be accurately called enemies of free will, they make the phrase "free will" synonymous with term coercion. You believe your idea of god offers free will. When I say your idea of god is coercive. Threats do not constitute free choice and Hell is about as big a threat as someone can conceive. IMO, this flawed thought process is what makes Christians unaware of how much they support coercion on other members of society to conform to their moral code. Christians belief in their God coerces believers to be behave how their god desires them to; Christians attempt to coerce non-believers in the same manner.

I do not support government legislation to silence Christians or any religion, I just look forward to the day when religion is given as much credibility and dread as most people give a cult.

[Scalleywag]

Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

I think I have illistrated how there is little to no evidence of a historical Jesus but no you keep making claims that there is historical evidence, please present this to us all so we can learn where your "historical" evidence exists. I have studied this so thouroughly I can assure you there is no historical evidence. [/COLOR]

Granted I have not had the time to read all 53 posts contained in this thread but this post jumped out at me. I was curious what you have studied to come to this conclusion?