Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

[mick-G]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Thing is the parents of these kids should be instilling good values, morals, and responsibility into these kids. Maybe the parents of these kids should instill alittle corporal punishment, never hurt me any, lol! Then maybe they wouldn't have to worry someday about getting there little asses kicked, cause someday there going to run into the wrong person at the wrong time and they will learn the hard way.

[edvedr]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

you don't know that they didn't. like i said i come from a very strict up bringing and shooting bottle rockets at cars was actually something i did all the time.

[T-Man007]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Thing is the parents of these kids should be instilling good values, morals, and responsibility into these kids. Maybe the parents of these kids should instill alittle corporal punishment, never hurt me any, lol! Then maybe they wouldn't have to worry someday about getting there little asses kicked, cause someday there going to run into the wrong person at the wrong time and they will learn the hard way.

Corporal Punishment? Not with all the Liberal Wakos around to turn you into the police for discipline.

In my opinion, if you disobey you should get punished. The word punishment comes from the Latin word poena, which means to inflict pain. Hmmmm. How it is then that we punish our children by timeout and can't figure out why they don't get the message? Simple, punishment by timeout is not really punishment, by definition of the orginal word, but it is a form of discipline. However, if you keep reaching for a scolding hot piece of metal in a fire and everytime you do someone makes you stand in a corner or go to your room for a period of time, do you really think you'll get the message faster than if you actually get burned by it? The answer is NO! Why? Simple, pain sends the fastest message to our central nervous system that what has just taken place is not good for us. Now, I'm not an advocate of child beating or spanking with any kind of instrument but I have been very very effective in the "open handed one swat to the butt" technique when my child doesn't obey and I have yet to meet someone who has not complemented us on our childs outstanding behavoir.

FOR THE RECORD, I'm not saying timeouts are useless, some children do respond to it but in my experience those parent who do timeout appear to have more disobedience in their children than we do ours. I say "appear" because that's what I have witnessed with my own eyes. Furthermore, I can speak from experience that if my when my parents sent me to my room I was more than fine with it. It was the spankings that got my attention. If I was bad my mom or dad would woop my butt with a belt or a wooden spoon. Trust me, I never did those things again. I understood the consiquences right away. Where as the times I got sent to my room or had to stay inside while everyone else got to play that did nothing. I would patiently wait it out.

[T-Man007]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

you don't know that they didn't. like i said i come from a very strict up bringing and shooting bottle rockets at cars was actually something i did all the time.

Man, I swear, not only do we long lost sisters as wifes but I think we are long lost brothers. I used to get my butt beat....for the stuff I got caught doing. And for the most part I didn't do the things I thought I'd get caught doing anymore. I used to shoot bottle rockets at cars, shoot squirels and birds with bb guns. Hell, we used to put on our motorcycle goggles and have one-pump bb gun wars. Once, I shot out the back window of a car driving up the road. It was pure luck. I had the gun at my side and said (famous last words) "hey, watch this" and raised up the rifle while still at my side and fired. Coooooshhhhhh....back window gone. This guy not only had his wife in the car but a kid in the back seat. What did he do? He backed up, got out, asked us our names and called the cops. No cussing, no yelling, no running, nothing but calm cool and collected. The way an adult should be when dealing with children. Luckily for us, my buddy's dad was a cop and we were in his neighborhood so he was the first one there. Nothing happened to us because we were too young but my mom made me go cut his lawn for the rest of the summer, for free. How many cars do you think I pointed a bb gun at after that? That's right, none! Spending your weekends cutting some guys lawn for free sucks.

Had this guy got out yelling, running or cussing we would have been off like a prom dress. I think the only reason we didn't run was because he was so cool about it. Hell, we knew the woods around there like the back of our hands, there is no way he would have caught us.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Corporal Punishment? Not with all the Liberal Wakos around to turn you into the police for discipline.

In my opinion, if you disobey you should get punished. The word punishment comes from the Latin word poena, which means to inflict pain. Hmmmm. How it is then that we punish our children by timeout and can't figure out why they don't get the message? Simple, punishment by timeout is not really punishment, by definition of the orginal word, but it is a form of discipline. However, if you keep reaching for a scolding hot piece of metal in a fire and everytime you do someone makes you stand in a corner or go to your room for a period of time, do you really think you'll get the message faster than if you actually get burned by it? The answer is NO! Why? Simple, pain sends the fastest message to our central nervous system that what has just taken place is not good for us. Now, I'm not an advocate of child beating or spanking with any kind of instrument but I have been very very effective in the "open handed one swat to the butt" technique when my child doesn't obey and I have yet to meet someone who has not complemented us on our childs outstanding behavoir.

FOR THE RECORD, I'm not saying timeouts are useless, some children do respond to it but in my experience those parent who do timeout appear to have more disobedience in their children than we do ours. I say "appear" because that's what I have witnessed with my own eyes. Furthermore, I can speak from experience that if my when my parents sent me to my room I was more than fine with it. It was the spankings that got my attention. If I was bad my mom or dad would woop my butt with a belt or a wooden spoon. Trust me, I never did those things again. I understood the consiquences right away. Where as the times I got sent to my room or had to stay inside while everyone else got to play that did nothing. I would patiently wait it out.

Before I rant on your previous post, I wanted to give you a big thumbs up on this right here. It's good to see that some parents out their realize that timeouts, and sending a kid to their room is not enough. I didn't fear my room especially since it had a tv, stereo, vcr, gameboy and everything else and most kids these days have more than that. I'd just occupy myself in their if they sent me. But when I got old enough and my dad started hitting me for getting out of line, I very very rarely ever did anything wrong. And if I did I'd make sure it wasn't anything stupid I'd get caught doing. I'd still fear for my life that he wouldn't find out. I was always paranoid about getting caught.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Yea, if someone walked up to me and started talking smack I would do nothing. If they threw a punch then I would defend myself. However, with my skills they more than likely wouldn't land in and they would find themself in a submission hold. I'm 235 at 5'10" so that crap doesn't happen to me, ever!

Second, this isn't "what if" time. This is what happened time. No one, I reapeat, no one was injured by the bottle rocket. But, I'll entertain your little game of fantasy land and lets say someone did throw an M80 and it actually made it into my car before it blew up and it did injure my 2 year old son. Yea, I'd get out of the car, and knwo knows what I'd do. But since this the not what happened and there was no injury your point is ridiculous and irrelvant.

If someone rapped my wife and I was there then I would have the right to defend her because it would be self defense and rape is a felony offense. Bottle rockets are not a felony offense, neither is shooting one at a car. So there is no comparson to this ridiculous "what if" either.

Self-defense as defined by law is when your 'person' is in direct threat or direct assult. If I throw somethign at you, then you have the right to defend yourself. If I throw something at your car, then that is NOT self defense. Period.

And don't talk to me about the Oklahoma bombing. A very very good friend of mine lost her aunt and niece in that and no one I know down played it at all. It's just sad to think about the fact that a shild died so early, that's what sad. I'm not saying the 50 year old secretary was any less of a loss, but atleast she got to spend 50 years experiencing life.

The fact that some kids talk crap to you at wal-mart means nothign to me. So what. Maybe that's something that happens to you, get bigger and it wont happen anymore. The fact that you wanted to rip them apart shows who you really are inside. Period. You think the guy had a right to beat these kids up and that's just sad to me. No where and at no time does anyone have the right to take the law into their own hands. The law says you have the right to "protect" yourself and your family. It doesn't say you have the right to "avenge". Period. These guys broke the law, they avenged a bottle rocket that hit their car. This is not a case of self defense, but a case of self discipline and their lack of it.

Yeah maybe it's not "what if" time to you. But in my "FANTASY LAND" as you call it, I believe people should always think of what could happen, hence why I said what if. If you just do things and don't think of the consequences, then that would be absolutely idiotic. It's called common sense and maybe alot of people out there just don't have any which is why they did stuff that endangers others life, but thats still not an excuse.

Its funny I read alot of your responses to my stuff and I think to myself "did he even read what I said?" Your putting words in my mouth by twisting the meanings of things and points I said.

For instance I brought the thing about Walmart up because since I was in no danger it wouldn't have been the adult like thing to do, if I responded back. I was trying to make the point that I agree to a point with your theory that kids shouldn't be lashed back at by adults, aslong as thier lives aren't in danger. Maybe I do have anger issues and that shouldn't have gotten to me, but it did. Difference is anger issues or not I kept to myself. Now if one of them would've struck me I would've leveled them. Not if they were 12, but since they were old enough to drive, then they should be old enough to take responsibility.

As for the Oklahoma bombing thing I'm sorry about your friend. That sucks you lost them. I actually grew up 10 minutes away from where Timothy Mcveigh lived. It was big news around us so they always played things and it was always about the kids which don't get me wrong Its horrible those kids were killed, but I hate when they focus on the kids and take away from the importance of everyone's lives.

Yeah and as for the avenge part of your post I couldn't disagree more. I am a true believer in an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. I think if people can't take it then they shouldn't dish it out! Thats the reason we have such high crime rates because the punishments aren't harsh enough, and our systme is one sided.

I figured out a perfect example for the bottle rocket thing. I was at a stop light once. I was sitting there minding my own business, when this car with two punk next to me threw a some baseball sized ball at me (my windows were open) and hit me in the face. They went to blow the light to get away, and I took off and pulled right in front of their car and slammed on my brakes. All of a sudden a biker pulled in front of me and got off his bike and said "I saw what they did, lets kick these fuckers asses!" So we ran at the car and they took off. I'll tell you I bet those kids won't do that shit again. That biker dude was a monster and looked scary as hell. They were shitting their pants when we were running at them, and almost had them cornered. Point was we chased them and they F*ing deserved it. It didn't endanger my life, but it was at my car and hit me. They learned their lesson, and I got my vengeance (even though I didn't hit them it was better because they got punishment for their action. Getting the shit scared out of them!) Let me guess I was supposed to smile and cook them dinner instead of do what I did right? I think not.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

DJ. there is a big difference between self defense and taking the law into your own hands. your probably someone who walks around with a that isn't fair attitude. oh he did this so i should be able to do this. hmmm yeah that usually accomplishes alot. people need to realize whats fair doesn't mean shit and you will have a tough time in life with that attitude. deal with things for the way they are and make decisions based on what will make what happened better, not what will make it even..

Actually I do ***** incessently about things if they are not fair. I believe in everything being fair and just. Thats what this country was founded on was the basis of equality. so that right there says my thoughts must not be too off.

.[/QUOTE]and i love how now shooting bottle rockets is being compared to using a rifle, glad we are making intelligent points here. and dropping big ass rocks on top of cars is no where near the same either. .[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm sorry I'm not as intelligent as you are. Maybe you can explain to me how much of an idiot I am for comparing a bottle rocket (which contains gun powder), to a gun that shoots a bullet (that also contains gun powder). What a moron I must to put that together. How about this if the bottle rocket happened to go into a open window, which is very possible then the person could have gone, blind, deaf, or been disfigured from the explosion, in combination with losing control of their car from the shock and harming and possibly killing other people. But I understand that's to hard of a point for some people to understand. Yeah so it didn't happen, this time but it could happen next time some punk does that.

My point on the big ass rock is that again according to you, kids do stupid things as pranks and it should be no big deal. It's just kids being kids. Well it seriously disfigured a woman for life and her life is now seriously altered for this. I can bet any money that the kids didn't intend for it to hurt someone like that. But guess what it did. And now that woman is screwed for life, and these kids didn't even get a lesson out of this because they ran. They were never found or anything so the woman never got any legal repercussions or any reimbursments for her medical costs and physical / mental anguish she now has to endure. How is that fair these kids don't have to answer for what they did, they aren't disfigured, they don't have horrible credit, and aren't seriously in debt, but this innocent woman that was driving down the thruway has all of that and more. Absolute bullshit, and if these kids were taught to think what if that wouldn't have ever happened.

But again no comparison right? yeah good call.

and EQ there is no difference between child abuse and beating up a kid that "deserves" it. bottom line is he is 12, you don't beat him up for any reason. even with adults, just cause someone deserves an ass beating doesn't mean you should give it to them.[/QUOTE]

Sure he deserved a nice slap on the mouth and to be tackled to the ground and held till the police pick his ass up. but only if he endangered your life.

[oddball]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

DJ. there is a big difference between self defense and taking the law into your own hands. your probably someone who walks around with a that isn't fair attitude. oh he did this so i should be able to do this. hmmm yeah that usually accomplishes alot. people need to realize whats fair doesn't mean shit and you will have a tough time in life with that attitude. deal with things for the way they are and make decisions based on what will make what happened better, not what will make it even.

and i love how now shooting bottle rockets is being compared to using a rifle, glad we are making intelligent points here. and dropping big ass rocks on top of cars is no where near the same either.

and EQ there is no difference between child abuse and beating up a kid that "deserves" it. bottom line is he is 12, you don't beat him up for any reason. even with adults, just cause someone deserves an ass beating doesn't mean you should give it to them.

if me and my wife are driving in a car and someone shoots a bottle rocket/uses a rifle/throws a rock and makes me wreck and my wife dies.its all the same.she is dead.doesnt matter how.bottom line is she is dead.and also doesnt matter if the person was 12 or 30.my wife is dead.and so would that person.age wouldnt matter.

[oddball]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Actually I do ***** incessently about things if they are not fair. I believe in everything being fair and just. Thats what this country was founded on was the basis of equality. so that right there says my thoughts must not be too off.

.

and i love how now shooting bottle rockets is being compared to using a rifle, glad we are making intelligent points here. and dropping big ass rocks on top of cars is no where near the same either. .[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm sorry I'm not as intelligent as you are. Maybe you can explain to me how much of an idiot I am for comparing a bottle rocket (which contains gun powder), to a gun that shoots a bullet (that also contains gun powder). What a moron I must to put that together. How about this if the bottle rocket happened to go into a open window, which is very possible then the person could have gone, blind, deaf, or been disfigured from the explosion, in combination with losing control of their car from the shock and harming and possibly killing other people. But I understand that's to hard of a point for some people to understand. Yeah so it didn't happen, this time but it could happen next time some punk does that.

My point on the big ass rock is that again according to you, kids do stupid things as pranks and it should be no big deal. It's just kids being kids. Well it seriously disfigured a woman for life and her life is now seriously altered for this. I can bet any money that the kids didn't intend for it to hurt someone like that. But guess what it did. And now that woman is screwed for life, and these kids didn't even get a lesson out of this because they ran. They were never found or anything so the woman never got any legal repercussions or any reimbursments for her medical costs and physical / mental anguish she now has to endure. How is that fair these kids don't have to answer for what they did, they aren't disfigured, they don't have horrible credit, and aren't seriously in debt, but this innocent woman that was driving down the thruway has all of that and more. Absolute bullshit, and if these kids were taught to think what if that wouldn't have ever happened.

But again no comparison right? yeah good call.

and EQ there is no difference between child abuse and beating up a kid that "deserves" it. bottom line is he is 12, you don't beat him up for any reason. even with adults, just cause someone deserves an ass beating doesn't mean you should give it to them.[/QUOTE]

Sure he deserved a nice slap on the mouth and to be tackled to the ground and held till the police pick his ass up. but only if he endangered your life.[/QUOTE]good points.

[mick-G]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Corporal Punishment? Not with all the Liberal Wakos around to turn you into the police for discipline.

In my opinion, if you disobey you should get punished. The word punishment comes from the Latin word poena, which means to inflict pain. Hmmmm. How it is then that we punish our children by timeout and can't figure out why they don't get the message? Simple, punishment by timeout is not really punishment, by definition of the orginal word, but it is a form of discipline. However, if you keep reaching for a scolding hot piece of metal in a fire and everytime you do someone makes you stand in a corner or go to your room for a period of time, do you really think you'll get the message faster than if you actually get burned by it? The answer is NO! Why? Simple, pain sends the fastest message to our central nervous system that what has just taken place is not good for us. Now, I'm not an advocate of child beating or spanking with any kind of instrument but I have been very very effective in the "open handed one swat to the butt" technique when my child doesn't obey and I have yet to meet someone who has not complemented us on our childs outstanding behavoir.

FOR THE RECORD, I'm not saying timeouts are useless, some children do respond to it but in my experience those parent who do timeout appear to have more disobedience in their children than we do ours. I say "appear" because that's what I have witnessed with my own eyes. Furthermore, I can speak from experience that if my when my parents sent me to my room I was more than fine with it. It was the spankings that got my attention. If I was bad my mom or dad would woop my butt with a belt or a wooden spoon. Trust me, I never did those things again. I understood the consiquences right away. Where as the times I got sent to my room or had to stay inside while everyone else got to play that did nothing. I would patiently wait it out.

Imo, Bro "timeout" is for sissies that are too afraid to be the parent. I've seen this "timeout" used, and to me it is not that effective, because what happens must of the time is that the child gets even more aggresive, because they know their being made a spectical of especially if there are more children in the home and he or she is having to sit in a corner while other children are playing. It will build a lasting resentment and one way or another that child is going to lash out and have more probs with behavior as a payback. Then usually by that time it is too late to use corporal punishment, because they literally hate the parents. Better to give them a good wack and send them to their rooms and take away a privilage. Don't get me wrong corporal punishiment shouldn't be used all the time and not cause and permenant damage or brusing, but if the behavior is that bad it is a good option i believe. One things for sure, if my kid was shooting bottle rockets at cars he/she'd get their little asses wooped when they got home, and they would think twice about doing that again, lol! Thats the prob nowdays, parents hear all this shit with what these stupid physiologists have to say and their kids are running them, not visa versa. Whole thing with this incident is that we don't even know for sure what happened. Your taking the medias word for what happened. Ive heard too many screwed up stories from the media just to turn things around, to make a good "story". I would bet that kid didn't even get beat up, and as far as the kid getting killed, well..if the guy didn't chase him into the traffic, then, as bad as it sounds its the kids neglect for not looking where hes running.

[daved150]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Imo, Bro "timeout is for sissies that are too afraid to be the parent". Of course it makes sence if your child is not that unruley, but for damn sure if my kid was shooting bottle rockets at cars he/she'd get their little asses wooped when they got home, and they would think twice about doing that again, lol! Thats the prob nowdays, parents hear all this shit with what these stupid physiologists have to say and their kids are running them, not visa versa. .

i agree...my dad used to whip my ass!!! and, i look forward to whipping my kids ass if they "cross the line"lol...it's a line that they know is there...it's a line that i made perfectly clear... it's a line that they seldom cross!! some here may think i'm nieve but, i seriously believe my oldest son (16) does NOT do drugs, or smoke becouse he believe's me (and rightfully so) when i told him i will kick the living shit outa him!! now, i dont believe that it'll persaude him forever, as he get's older....thats why i'm working out!! lol. they know the line!! cross it, and your ass is mine. i believe that's what made me the man i am today, and i believe it'll make my kids better people in the future!

[mick-G]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

This is going to be boring, but i going to tell you bro a little story very quick. When i was young my dad made me work, and no when i was growing up i didn't even get paid for it. He told me what to do, not ask. If he said do this, i did it no questions. I bought my first car, paid my own insurance, paid for my own clothes when i worked. I am very sucessfull now. Want to know why? Because when i did something wrong i got punished for it, and yes sometimes a good paddling and sent to my room. Sure i was hurt, but you know what?..I got the point. Sure no one can tell you what to do for the rest of your life, but for damn sure it made me a better person, a person that respects others even if they are not as educated, informed or yes even younger. Prob i see with the younger kids nowdays is alot of them are either "want to be's", or have to have all this designer clothes, nice cars, etc, and don't want to work hard to get somewhere, and biggest thing is they lack character. Why, because mommy and daddy were too afraid to discipline or teach their kids the values that will make them better adults.

[Iron Knight]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

It's bad that the one kid got killed & we probably do not & will not know just how severe the butt kicking was or was not. Let's not forget the media does not always tell us the whole truth or sometimes kicks the truth to the curb. We probably do not know how big these "kids" were in relation to the adults. I worked in a school setting last year & some of these "kids" were bigger than my 5'10",210lb, 36yr old frame. Another thing we probably don't & won't know is if these kids were thugs or not,they may have a record that would make John Gotti proud. GirlPatriot, as I have worked w/kids in the past & present I can honestly say that not all parents go to bat for their kids. I'm not trying to get flamed but I know what I've seen & some of these parents be they left,right,neo-****,whatever, don't know where their kids are, what their doing, if they'll be home nor do they give a crap. We also don't know what city this was in, if it's of any size calling the cops & not detaining the kids would be almost pointless unles the cops just happened to be close by. I've seen how calls get dispatched to cops & by the time you call it in, they ask you 20 questions, & give the call out, you've lost a good 5 - 10 minutes & in that time someone can be long gone from the scene & if the cops are on a more important call they're not gonna rush over to a fireworks call.

[T-Man007]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

I figured out a perfect example for the bottle rocket thing. I was at a stop light once. I was sitting there minding my own business, when this car with two punk next to me threw a some baseball sized ball at me (my windows were open) and hit me in the face. They went to blow the light to get away, and I took off and pulled right in front of their car and slammed on my brakes. All of a sudden a biker pulled in front of me and got off his bike and said "I saw what they did, lets kick these fuckers asses!" So we ran at the car and they took off. I'll tell you I bet those kids won't do that shit again. That biker dude was a monster and looked scary as hell. They were shitting their pants when we were running at them, and almost had them cornered. Point was we chased them and they F*ing deserved it. It didn't endanger my life, but it was at my car and hit me. They learned their lesson, and I got my vengeance (even though I didn't hit them it was better because they got punishment for their action. Getting the shit scared out of them!) Let me guess I was supposed to smile and cook them dinner instead of do what I did right? I think not.

You see, now there I agree with you. In this situation you were directly struck with an object. Not your car, but you, personally were struck. That can be considered assualt. In this case I support your decsion to get out of the car. And don't get me wrong, in the past I would have probably got half way into their car to beat their butt. But knowledge has shown me the best thing to do is get their tag number first, then try to get them to stop. If they continue to run off just follow while talking to 911. I had a road rage situation once back in Atlanta. Now, since it was Atlanta I wasn't about to invite the guys to the side of the road but I did call the cops. There were four guys in the car and all four got arrested for road rage. Apparently someone else called the poilce on them too. That to me was way more satifying because it was early Friday night and all four of those phukers got to spend their Friday night in jail. I proceeded all the way to court with it and they now have criminal records for their behavoir. That, is a lesson learned, in my opinion.

[T-Man007]

Re: Anyone hear about this yet on the news??

Imo, Bro "timeout" is for sissies that are too afraid to be the parent. I've seen this "timeout" used, and to me it is not that effective, because what happens must of the time is that the child gets even more aggresive, because they know their being made a spectical of especially if there are more children in the home and he or she is having to sit in a corner while other children are playing. It will build a lasting resentment and one way or another that child is going to lash out and have more probs with behavior as a payback. Then usually by that time it is too late to use corporal punishment, because they literally hate the parents. Better to give them a good wack and send them to their rooms and take away a privilage. Don't get me wrong corporal punishiment shouldn't be used all the time and not cause and permenant damage or brusing, but if the behavior is that bad it is a good option i believe. One things for sure, if my kid was shooting bottle rockets at cars he/she'd get their little asses wooped when they got home, and they would think twice about doing that again, lol! Thats the prob nowdays, parents hear all this shit with what these stupid physiologists have to say and their kids are running them, not visa versa. Whole thing with this incident is that we don't even know for sure what happened. Your taking the medias word for what happened. Ive heard too many screwed up stories from the media just to turn things around, to make a good "story". I would bet that kid didn't even get beat up, and as far as the kid getting killed, well..if the guy didn't chase him into the traffic, then, as bad as it sounds its the kids neglect for not looking where hes running.

I agree, physical punishment is more effective than timeout.