WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

[mick-G]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

Dude, you must not have met many foreign nationality Catholics then. I know Catholics within my step-fathers Italian family that pray to saints for safe travels, or good luck. I know Catholics from Guam, France, Germany and Russia who all were taught to pray to saints for specific needs. That is idolotry. How can you say it's not? There is no way around it. How about the "Hail Mary's"? That's praising Mary, not God. That's idolotry. I was Catholic and I know what the hell I'm talking about. I've seen it with my own eyes so I know for a 100% fact that these things are taught in Catholic Churches. And considering most of the 1.3 billion Catholics live outside the US they make up the majority of the Catholic Religion. If they do these things then the majority does these things.

They are praying thru Saints to God. I believe you are talking of St. Christopher for travel. Mary is the mother of Jesus, is this improper? I would not call these idols. I consider praying to idols, praying to false God's, like Satan, a goat, an amulet or something of that nature. I certainly understand some ppls discouragement of the Catholic church, but i can not contradict its teachings. I am not a strick Catholic, but i do have a respect for it. On the other hand Satanists and also Witches and Warlocks believe in praying to objects and animals, then there is Voodoo, lol. There are prophets in other religions that ppl pray to. Are these false God's? The Pope is one of much education of the Bible and the Catholic churchs teachings, but certainly not an Idol. I know that there are prob alot of ppl that pray for him, kiss his hands feet etc if they should ever have the chance to meet him, but this is because they believe he is very holy, not because they worship him like God. Maybe this appears to be that, because of what they see in the media. I see and feel the animosity toward the Catholic faith, especially by younger ppl. Maybe this is because of the way they were brought up into the Catholic church, or from situations that happen in their lives that don't coincide with what the church teaches, or it could be that no one ever bothered to explain to them why certain things happen and how the views of the Catholic church pretain to them and their experiences. I do know that we are told that no mortal is perfect, but if we repent God will show mercy and forgive. It is sad, but it appears to me that there is alot of hate and anger between ppl, as this thread projects. I only hope that Benidict XVI can hopefully bridge this gap between the denominations and non-denominal Christians, so ppl can have a better attitude towards their brothers and sisters, and a comming together of faiths.

[Skarhead]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

Science is actully doing more to prove God than disprove God lately. There have been so many things to disprove evolution that many of the worlds top scientist say science will disprove it before long. If evolution was real and we all came from fish then why are there still fish? Why hasn't a creature walked out of the ocean in the last 10,000 years? Why are there still singles cell organisims? If everything is evolving why is there still simple cell life forms?

Ok so even if the theory of evolution is 150% wrong, the fact that a so called "god" did the work is just way too far fetched for my point of views... I understand how complex everything is and how amazing everything is but if u're going to tell me that a book written through 500 years of hear say explains creation...no way!

[T-Man007]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

Ok so even if the theory of evolution is 150% wrong, the fact that a so called "god" did the work is just way too far fetched for my point of views... I understand how complex everything is and how amazing everything is but if u're going to tell me that a book written through 500 years of hear say explains creation...no way!

I'm sad to hear you say that last part my brother. You have the right to believe what ever you want. It's not my job to "force" anything upon you. But I do hope one day you reconsider your thinking.

Not everyone has a good life. My grandmother's husband left her with 6 kids to raise all by herself. She would work all day and then come home and do choirs for her neighbors, like clean their houses and wash their clothes, just to keep a roof over the heads of those 6 kids and food on the table. Many nights dinner was a piece of bread with heated pinto beans on top. This wasn't just a month or a year, this most most of their life. That's some serious hardships, but my grandmother loved God for everything he gave her. It's hard to explain but the best way I can say it is like this: I believe God must break a person before he can truely win their heart. It's in our darkest hour that we need him the most. It's way too easy for successful people to stand up and praise God for all their blessings. But, it takes a true believer to stand up and thank God for what he has, even though he has nothing.

I'm sorry to hear your father had such hardships, I truely am. But I'm sure there was a reason for it. You might not understand it now but you will. One day, I'll have to tell you the story of my father commiting suicide when I was 21. Talk about turning from God. But now that I can look back over the last 12 years and see the reason why it happened and what it made of me, it makes me thankful.

[Skarhead]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

i completely understand what u're saying and i'm glad you can look at it like that. My dad went through similar things around your age too. maybe i will reconsider one day but right now im too narrow minded. I just co nnect myself to it or anything related to me.

[T-Man007]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

They are praying thru Saints to God. I believe you are talking of St. Christopher for travel. Mary is the mother of Jesus, is this improper? I would not call these idols. I consider praying to idols, praying to false God's, like Satan, a goat, an amulet or something of that nature. I certainly understand so ppls discouragment of the Catholic church, but i can not contradict its teachings. I am not a strick Catholic, but i do have a respect for it.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Catholics. But I don't know one verse in the Bible that says you need to pray through saints to God. So, in that line of thinking, it's a non-Biblical practice. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

I do see your point of idol worship. But the Bible is clear in the fact that God says not to praise any man, not to pray to any man, but to praise him and him alone and to have a direct relationship with him. How can one have a direct realationship with God if he prays through Saints or he confesses his sins to a priest? I have never seen one verse that says you should confess your sins to a preist, but I have seen dozens that say you should confess your sins to God. I just don't understand the practice of things that aren't in the Bible.

[T-Man007]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

i completely understand what u're saying and i'm glad you can look at it like that. My dad went through similar things around your age too. maybe i will reconsider one day but right now im too narrow minded. I just co nnect myself to it or anything related to me.

You are not narrow minded bro! You just haven't opened your heart, that's all. It's not bad, no man is good enough for God, no man. But those who open their hearts receive forgiveness. It doesn't make me any better than you. I still do stuff I shouldn't, the only difference is I have the comfort of forgiveness. It's just not your time, I guess.

[mick-G]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Catholics. But I don't know one verse in the Bible that says you need to pray through saints to God. So, in that line of thinking, it's a non-Biblical practice. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

I do see your point of idol worship. But the Bible is clear in the fact that God says not to praise any man, not to pray to any man, but to praise him and him alone and to have a direct relationship with him. How can one have a direct realationship with God if he prays through Saints or he confesses his sins to a priest? I have never seen one verse that says you should confess your sins to a preist, but I have seen dozens that say you should confess your sins to God. I just don't understand the practice of things that aren't in the Bible.

They are not praying to him, they are praying for him. Also the praying to Saints is a Catholic teaching, and certainly not done by many. It is a personal choice. As far as the confessing to a priest, I and my wife do not believe in this. We confess to God for our sins. This is one of the things that some ppl do not agree with and i think should be changed.

[T-Man007]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

I see. I thank you for clearing up some things for me. I do realize that every Catholic church is different. Just like every Baptist, Methodist and Penicostal church is different too. It was a mistake on my part to catagorize an entire religion for the practice of some. I do realize there are Catholics who go by the Bible and not so much the old ways and I find great comfort in that. The more people in heaven the better.

I hope we always maintain this level of communication between us. I really respect the way you handled this thread. You never threw one punch even though you felt some were thrown at your religion. You're a stand up guy!

[BIGMOFO]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

The only vehicle to God advocated in the bible is through Christ. Not Mary, not Saints, not relics, just Christ.

AMEN my sister............ preach on

[BIGMOFO]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

You just don't get it do you.... It does not matter if she tried to pass them off as facts or not.... This is the religion forum and your dicussing religion. There is no such thing as facts. Everything you talk about is your BELIEF, not fact. It is something you read or were told by your religion. Muslims BELIEVE that if they die while standing up for their religion or country that they will go to a great place where they will be 7 beautiful virgins waiting for them (or something along those lines, I'm not trying to insult muslims by misquoting their religion... I am simply trying to get a point across).... Is this true?? Well, you probably don't think so, but they do and they take it as fact.... But in the end it is their BELIEF, not a FACT. And with religion, it will always be this way.

No if someone said in the AAS forum that d-bol will not effect your liver at all..... Well they are trying to pass bad information off as fact..... Yet still, nothing would get heated. They would simply be corrected by someone who knows better, and we would move on.

some people think that what they believe is facts, but that does not mean they have to be your facts or that you have to believe that.i belive if you pray to or through sone one other than Jesus Christ you are worng and I believe that to be a fact! It my not be your fact, but its mine. Just because i think someone may be wrong does not mean i will force my opinion on them, just state how I feel. saying some one is wrong is not bashing them is just an opinion!

[mick-G]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

I don't believe anyone was bashing someone's opinion, just a statement that was derogatory. It is ok to disagree with someone's religion. Many ppl in the Catholic religion may worship the Pope, but this is not truely right, as many ppl that are Catholics believe in the old traditions, and some do not. It is not for me or anyone else to say it is right or wrong. These are the Catholic Law and doctrine, it is not written in the Bible, but ppl that were brought up in the Catholic church, especially older ones still follow their strict teachings. Others like myself take some out, like that of confessional with a priest. Alot of Catholics pray to Mary, and to the Saints. Is it wrong to do this? I do not think so. If they have a conviction to God and truely believe in him then their souls will be saved. It is the hypocrites and ppl that speak false truths in his name that will repent during judgement. Like i have said, and will say again, no one is perfect and everyone has their faults. If we were all perfect we would prob be with him now.

[T-Man007]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

Like i have said, and will say again, no one is perfect and everyone has their faults.

You got that right!

[Skarhead]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

And this Mick, is exactly why the Catholic Church finally split so very long ago. Catholics and Protestants have fundamentally different beliefs on nearly everything you just mentioned. Just because we believe it is wrong, doesn't mean we are being derogatory. Being derogatory would be making a personal attack on someone because of their beliefs. I don't believe anyone here, on either side, did that.

i thought they split b/c back hundreds of years ago the catholic church was corrupt and using religion to get wealthy??

[BIGMOFO]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

Not to try to keep arguing..... But, that makes it your opinion, not a fact. There is a difference, and when it comes to religion, because no one can prove what happens when you die (obviously once they know they are dead and can't share that with us....) or the other things stated in the bible, then everything is either a belief or opinion, but never a fact. It also doesn't help that the bible can be interpretted 50 different ways by 50 different people.... That makes for many different points of view and opinions.

I know what you saying, but some people can feel that thier opinion is fact while others dont. I belive, as a lot of people do, that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that there are records of Jesus really being here that have been passed down through the years as facts to one another. So, if I bleive that it is the inspired Word of God, then me saying that you should not pray to or through anyone other than Jesus Christ is a fact to me because I can show to in the Bible where it says that to back it up, that being a FACT! It just depends alot on what you belive and what you concider a fact!

i love ya crankypoo! lol

[Skarhead]

Re: WHO DO YOU WANT AS THE NEW POPE

after reading this thread i could be the new pope