Poll: Your Spiritual Beliefs

[Slightly Enhanced]

There are two people who did not die in the flesh. They were elijah or elisha amd some one else. They will return to earth in the end times and die a mortals death.

[Klash]

Originally posted by workinhard
Revelation 9:6

In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

Revelation 9:6 is referring to when your graceful God and his angels decide to torture the inhabitants of the world.

[Klash]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
There was a holding place, or resting place. Old testament believers went to "Abraham Bosom" something like that. They did not go to heaven directly after death. Jesus went there during the crux/death/resurrection time. They were atoned in the blood of Jesus.

Does that answer your thought?

So this is where the idea of purgatory comes from...."Abraham Bosom".........interesting, I'll have to read up on this...

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
There are two people who did not die in the flesh. They were elijah or elisha amd some one else. They will return to earth in the end times and die a mortals death.

Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11), Elisha died and was buried. "And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year." "And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet."(2 Kings 13:21-22). The 2 people you are talking aboiut are the 2 witnesses that will die an mortals death. It says NO-WHERE in the bible that it will be Elijah and Elisha. Most specualte that it will be Moses and Elijah but im not into speculation.

Ciph

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Klash
So this is where the idea of purgatory comes from...."Abraham Bosom".........interesting, I'll have to read up on this...

There is not pergatory. If you are saved, you are absent from the body, present with the Lord. If you are going to hell, you will be cast into the Lake Of Fire.

Ciph

[Klash]

Originally posted by Cipher
There is not pergatory. If you are saved, you are absent from the body, present with the Lord. If you are going to hell, you will be cast into the Lake Of Fire.

Ciph

How about what Slightly Enhanced called "Abraham Bosom"?


What determined if you were going to hell in the Old testament?

[Slightly Enhanced]

Originally posted by Cipher
Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11), Elisha died and was buried. "And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year." "And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet."(2 Kings 13:21-22). The 2 people you are talking aboiut are the 2 witnesses that will die an mortals death. It says NO-WHERE in the bible that it will be Elijah and Elisha. Most specualte that it will be Moses and Elijah but im not into speculation.

Ciph

Ciph, I am on your side, and I find it easy to interpret your statements as condescending.

You are correct. It is a belief, not a direct statement in the Bible. You can call it speculation; most will call it interpretation, which is what you or any other Bible reading person does.

The bible is open to interpretation. That is why we are Protestants and not Catholic. Our greatest value of dissention is also our greatest weakness. If Protestants were as united as Catholics, and if Catholics & Protestants were more united, Christianity would be stronger in the world.

[Slightly Enhanced]

I have avoided thread, but now feel compelled to join. I have strong Christian beliefs, but by definition I am a hypocrite, as I do not live by the eternal truths engrained in Christianity.

I think this thread would be more productive if we all tried not to offend one another.

Ciph – telling someone they are going to spend eternity in damnation can be offensive. I know that you are trying help them avoid this, but your approach needs work my friend.

At the same time when you intentionally make fun of a religion or a God that some holds to be their creator, an offense will be taken.

Place yourself in their shoes Ciph. A Muslim tells you that you are completely wrong in what you believe and that you are going to hell, you are going to shut them out. No one is going to automatically accept what you say.

First try to gain an understanding of what they believe and why. Then explain your point without making it personal. There are many rational ideas about various religions and spiritual beliefs.

Religion is such a personal thing and goes so deep that trying to discuss it in paragraphs can be very difficult.

The bible is not very comprehendible until you gain a relationship with the Lord. It is like trying to learn a language. You may know the words, but until you immerse your self in a culture, it is difficult to put in context and understand all of the non-spoken communications.

[Slightly Enhanced]

Purgatory is a Catholic belief. I am not Catholic, but this is what I think it is. Until recently Catholics had to go to the priest for confession. Well what if you died between confessions. You went to purgatory until those sins “wore off”. This is very rough explanation.

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
Ciph, I am on your side, and I find it easy to interpret your statements as condescending.

You are correct. It is a belief, not a direct statement in the Bible. You can call it speculation; most will call it interpretation, which is what you or any other Bible reading person does.

The bible is open to interpretation. That is why we are Protestants and not Catholic. Our greatest value of dissention is also our greatest weakness. If Protestants were as united as Catholics, and if Catholics & Protestants were more united, Christianity would be stronger in the world.

SE....my statements werent meant to be condescending and no disrespect was meant. Yoiu are on of the people that reads the daily verse when myself or WH puts it up.

The bible is open to interpretation, however, the statement you made regarding Elijah and Elisha was false. errr...maybe half false. Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind. Elisha however died and was buried. I think enoch is the other person that did not die a mortals death. These will be the 2 witnesses that die in the end time (they are killed by the anti-christ, will rot in the road for 3 days and then be raised to heaven to prove Gods power).

Ciph

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
Purgatory is a Catholic belief. I am not Catholic, but this is what I think it is. Until recently Catholics had to go to the priest for confession. Well what if you died between confessions. You went to purgatory until those sins “wore off”. This is very rough explanation.

I was baptised Catholic and was raised in a catholic shurch until 5 years ago. Confession is nothing more than intercession. We ask Jesus to intercede for us with the father (Hence the reason why when we pray to God we end the prayer "In Jesus name I pray"). The priest is there to pray with/for you and to tell you that your sins will be forgiven.

There is somewhere in the bible that mentions and middle ground after deat but not sure where and if thats even what it refers to.

Ciph

[Slightly Enhanced]

I said "They were elijah or elisha and some one else" I used "or" not "and"

[Slightly Enhanced]

Originally posted by GirlPatriot
So Cipher, how do you justify good people not going to heaven simply because they have not been saved? I know that is what it says in the bible and you believe that. But I mean, how do you personally feel about that belief? Does it trouble you in the least?
~GP

Let me answer in how I see it.

If there was no need to be saved, then Jesus wourd not have needed to die.

If everyone goes to heaven, then there is no hell.

If there is no hell, why is there an earth and mortal life.

God wanted a family, one that chooses him. That is why he gave me a choice. I must seek a relationship with him. Salvation is more than being good, actually you could not be that nice and still go to heaven, you just wouldn't be very good Christian.

Of course it is troubling. Why do you think Ciph spends so much time trying to convert you all. He believes that you are all good people and he wants you to spend eternity in heaven with him.

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
Let me answer in how I see it.

If there was no need to be saved, then Jesus wourd not have needed to die.

If everyone goes to heaven, then there is no hell.

If there is no hell, why is there an earth and mortal life.

God wanted a family, one that chooses him. That is why he gave me a choice. I must seek a relationship with him. Salvation is more than being good, actually you could not be that nice and still go to heaven, you just wouldn't be very good Christian.

Of course it is troubling. Why do you think Ciph spends so much time trying to convert you all. He believes that you are all good people and he wants you to spend eternity in heaven with him.

Couldnt have said it any better myself SE. You are all good bros and ladies on this board. I dont know who will get saved or not. My job is to spread the word. I feel that is what Im doing.

Ciph

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
I said "They were elijah or elisha and some one else" I used "or" not "and"

Sorry bout that....Didnt have my eyeballs on (ie:glasses)

Ciph