Closer than ever...

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

one more time, I did not vote for Obama

commercial real estate is a fourth of homes, commercial re typically only holds a 5-7 year loan that they roll over at the end of the date, due too the roll over, over time if rates are low the comm re companies have more cash flow and they buy the trash

not denying there's problems yet for most part they are identified and well known

[horsepwr]

Re: Closer than ever...

trip, you say you did not vote for Obama. You can find plenty of posts where you stated Obama as being the best candidate for the country, and the only true leader with real leadership skills. You almost seemed giddy over the guy.
You sure were pleased with Obama, pre-election, to not have voted for him. You didn't like McCain at all because of your disbelief in war, and if nenory serves me, which it doesn't allot of times, I don't recall much, if any, mention of Ron Paul once Obama showed strong on the map.
I'm not saying you might have made an incorrect staement about your vote. I'm just surprised that you didn't vote for Obama. You were very intriqued by the guy. I thought you were sold. 'Obama's a true leader'...'real leadership skills that America needs...' etc. There are posts where you praised Obama to the top for America.

I'm just wondering how a libertarian would see, and hear, Obama's views, through his well delivered speaches, and agree with them. He didn't hide his "government is the answer" positions.

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

hp,

you're pretty much on, actually my preferred candidat was huckabee, who blew it by going religious, he had a moment like obama and what's his name guy

i mentioned paul several times, he is a bad communicator and thus he ends up losing, he gets into discussion about too many things folks don't understand

as i've said for over a year my guess is we get a libertarian president in early 2020's due too young people who propelled paul will have had 10-12 years too fight the fight with colleagues, as a whole this is the first election libertarians got more coverage than ever before, it all starts somewhere

i'm presently not pleased with obama, yet, i FEEL i understand a bit what is going on

here's my mark in the sand w/obama, if glass stegal is brought back he gets some cred, if not, he will not impress me

things i've learned, i did not realize how influencial mid-term stuff is too what alot of these politicians do, and also the complete power they have at times, ie, dispension of laws and doing what they want with tarp

theres generationaly phycological issues, and mass phycological issues always going on all the time, it was easy to pick obama cause these two X's converged, so the focus was how effective would his campaign be, and what would he show

bottom line, he's yet too really show any balls, he's very middle of the road

[FUZO]

Re: Closer than ever...

he's very middle of the road

NOW TRIP THIS SCUM IS NOT THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD CMON YOU KNOW THAT

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

middle of the road as far as leadership goes, he's not doing much of anything the powers that be don't want, do you really think healthcare would have passed unless the insurers and drug companies would get hurt.............the thing doesn't go into effect for what 2-3 years, probably so the companies can adjust for whatever for the future, you gotta remember this big insurance companies insure alot of old folks, on a timeline costs hurt them also


here's an interesting item..............

fannie and freddie getting more money for another 3 or so years, at the same time the fed said two weeks ago it will stop buying mortgages in march of 2010

so, what you have imho, is how powerfull these guys can be, they say one thing and do another in a different way

what i am personally becoming more aware of is how many of these things go on all the time, since i'm like most and haven't paid much attention to politics until 05, it's just becoming more obvious to me how it's loophole city on one hand, bs on the other, and money and power have the most major influence on the government, and we the people are the last in line

[Stout1]

Re: Closer than ever...

middle of the road as far as leadership goes, he's not doing much of anything the powers that be don't want, do you really think healthcare would have passed unless the insurers and drug companies would get hurt.............the thing doesn't go into effect for what 2-3 years, probably so the companies can adjust for whatever for the future, you gotta remember this big insurance companies insure alot of old folks, on a timeline costs hurt them also


here's an interesting item..............

fannie and freddie getting more money for another 3 or so years, at the same time the fed said two weeks ago it will stop buying mortgages in march of 2010

so, what you have imho, is how powerfull these guys can be, they say one thing and do another in a different way

what i am personally becoming more aware of is how many of these things go on all the time, since i'm like most and haven't paid much attention to politics until 05, it's just becoming more obvious to me how it's loophole city on one hand, bs on the other, and money and power have the most major influence on the government, and we the people are the last in line

They are front loading the system. We will be paying premiums till 2014 then the Healthcare bill will take effect. They are doing this to fool with the way it affects our defecit....I mean of course it's going to either be deficit neutral or positive for us if we pay for something for 10 years but only use it for 6.

Fannie and Freddie.....my exact point. The gov't says one thing but does another. You don't trust our gov't now with Fannie and Freddie but you want to trust them with 1/6 of our economy?

And you call yourself a libertarian. I think you're confused.

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

First off, libertarians are the true believers in less government, not no government.

Both republicans who say less government always creates more, dems essentially believe government can be better, yet, they stick there fingers in every pot, every one.

In 1974, Nixon went to china and opened up relations. Many corporations went over there in 1976 and set up shop. In 2,000 China crossed the line in manufacturing cheap stuff. With all the ups and downs, tianemen square, the fact in 98 there banks were as busted as are our now, they had momentum of cheap manufacturing on there side, and it exploded.

In 1993 Ross Perot, first independent thought would have a chance, he took on a VP candidate that makes Palin look like a genius, and blew up his chances by also crying out about conspiracy chances.

Add 25 years, you get 2018, as an inflection point, which is 8 years from now, at that point my guess is it's obvious money rules the political scene, at that point a 3rd party arises, hopefully a libertarian, and maybe then or in four years they win, because he will have too reign in spending and force the congress and senate to get in line with the veto power.

I look at things in a bigger time line, more generationally, and more mass physcology.

Right now, people want jobs............jobs should get better and quell the discontent, yet, that should be only temporary. Eventually the piper has to be paid, the government has the power to put that off and off and off and off

[FUZO]

Re: Closer than ever...

Bringing up the past isnt going to help your cause,there are no jobs and wont be any for awhile if that. And if this health care thing happens there go more jobs down the drain.And say good by democrats and then say good by blojama in 3 years.Trip I really think you are confused and dont know what you really are,a liberal,republican,libertarian who knows because I know I can dig in old posts and make ya look really odd and people will question why would a libertarian say that.

Both republicans who say less government always creates more, dems essentially believe government can be better, yet, they stick there fingers in every pot, every one.

In 1974, Nixon went to china and opened up relations. Many corporations went over there in 1976 and set up shop. In 2,000 China crossed the line in manufacturing cheap stuff. With all the ups and downs, tianemen square, the fact in 98 there banks were as busted as are our now, they had momentum of cheap manufacturing on there side, and it exploded.

In 1993 Ross Perot, first independent thought would have a chance, he took on a VP candidate that makes Palin look like a genius, and blew up his chances by also crying out about conspiracy chances.

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

i've said what i am numerous times, cause i don't say what others do, or think along those lines i cannot be

the past, lol, that's majority of what folks thing about, i can't help it the republicans screwed it up so royally, my grandma who is 97 still talks of the great depression often, what bush has done has had a similar emotional impact on most people, they will not forget

help my cause? lol, what's my cause?

[JsJs24]

Re: Closer than ever...

First off, libertarians are the true believers in less government, not no government.

Both republicans who say less government always creates more, dems essentially believe government can be better, yet, they stick there fingers in every pot, every one.

In 1974, Nixon went to china and opened up relations. Many corporations went over there in 1976 and set up shop. In 2,000 China crossed the line in manufacturing cheap stuff. With all the ups and downs, tianemen square, the fact in 98 there banks were as busted as are our now, they had momentum of cheap manufacturing on there side, and it exploded.

In 1993 Ross Perot, first independent thought would have a chance, he took on a VP candidate that makes Palin look like a genius, and blew up his chances by also crying out about conspiracy chances.

Add 25 years, you get 2018, as an inflection point, which is 8 years from now, at that point my guess is it's obvious money rules the political scene, at that point a 3rd party arises, hopefully a libertarian, and maybe then or in four years they win, because he will have too reign in spending and force the congress and senate to get in line with the veto power.

I look at things in a bigger time line, more generationally, and more mass physcology.

Right now, people want jobs............jobs should get better and quell the discontent, yet, that should be only temporary. Eventually the piper has to be paid, the government has the power to put that off and off and off and off

Correction Trip, you are WRONG. Some libertarians believe in NO government and are anarchists. There is not a definition I know of that does not mention that very true point and many of the classical philosophers and economists discuss it, many of them were anarchists libertarians. Libertarians range in views from minarchist to anarchist. You are killing me Trip. Don't try and define the word to us, we understand the meaning already. There is no need to point out past Presidents either, as far as I'm concerned there have only been a handful of good ones in our country's history. No libertarian would support Obama Trip, period. Go to any libertarian website and see how Obama is portrayed. The man is the biggest government president we have ever had, bigger than Carter. He is a goddamn Marxist! There is no way around that. Now, I honor your opinion and enjoy debating politics with everyone to include you, however this is getting difficult. Face the facts, if you are a libertarian it is just the fact that you are registered as one, because you have not given me one single reason to believe that you are. Stop mentioning presidential candidates names and start talking about what you believe as a libertarian. Do you believe the government should bail out everybody instead of leaving it to the free market? Do you believe the government should mandate health care and run it too? Do you believe the government should sign the Kyoto Treaty and enforce strict cap and trade policies here in the U.S.? Do you believe a president should have 30 plus czars? Do you believe taxes should be progressively raised on the rich? Do you believe a president and his staff should bribe other members of the Senate and Congress to get their vote on health care? Do you believe the school year should be all year round and the school day increased to 10 hours?

Just some things to think about.

[JsJs24]

Re: Closer than ever...

i've said what i am numerous times, cause i don't say what others do, or think along those lines i cannot be

the past, lol, that's majority of what folks thing about, i can't help it the republicans screwed it up so royally, my grandma who is 97 still talks of the great depression often, what bush has done has had a similar emotional impact on most people, they will not forget

help my cause? lol, what's my cause?

Interesting, my grandfather remembers the great depression too and told me how the policies of FDR did nothing except create a few jobs here and there temporarily for a few months or a couple years to build a bridge and such.

I would bet you are a Keynesian believer Trip and think the FDR policies were wise.

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

carter, big government, man, he had a whopping 50 billion dollar deficit, and said importing oil was stupid...............he was deemed incompetent due to the economy and six soldiers died in a helicopter in the dessert trying to save iranian hostages, the helicopter did not have the correct filter for sand

keynesian, supply side imho is kind of dumb, i have no idea what fdr did or why

people believed home prices would go up, so what, you got nut jobs in all groups

my goal is not too convince you of anything

I believe that voting is on Tuesdays in the fall because it was the system set up for the time. After the crops were brought in, folks went to church, then had too travel too town too vote. And we still vote on Tuesdays, when 90% of people are not working on Saturdays and all people have the time.

I believe we have alot of old antaquated systems in place that never change because status quo prefers it that way too maintain power.

I believe change does not happen until it is forced upon people.

I believe in magic...........

[horsepwr]

Re: Closer than ever...

I believe government forced change is criminal.
I believe change brought on by force by the people, a revolution, to correct government force, tyranny, totalitarianism, is magic.

[JsJs24]

Re: Closer than ever...

keynesian, supply side imho is kind of dumb, i have no idea what fdr did or why
.

This is stunning. You have no idea what FDR did or why? I thought you were more engaged in your study of history and politics.

[trip]

Re: Closer than ever...

why is it stunning, when i have a lack of knowledge of something, i'll say it, my preference is specific knowlege versus general, what i know of fdr is general which imho ain't worth much without specifics