CHRISTIANS

[BoobooKitty]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^^ I'm sure we would. It would be a "new beginning."

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^ its a happening state thats for sure. Ya'll would dig it here! There is always something to do here.

I need to hire someone. Probably couldnt afford you, Boo! LOL

[BoobooKitty]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Religions have been made my mankind since the beggining of time to explain the afterlife and other unexplainable things and to control people with fear.

The funny thing with the bible is there are thousands of interpretations and thousands of different religions that have come from it and they all think everyone else is going to hell except them..LOL..thats the man made thing about religion.

I agree. I went to Catholic school for 6 years and went to church and all that. I believe in God and all but I don't preach to anyone. I do my best to help others, pray for the lost, sick and unfortunate. I would never wish any harm to anyone. Not even my enemies. In a way I believe "an eye for an eye" but nowadays that doesn't happen.

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I agree. I went to Catholic school for 6 years and went to church and all that. I believe in God and all but I don't preach to anyone. I do my best to help others, pray for the lost, sick and unfortunate. I would never wish any harm to anyone. Not even my enemies. In a way I believe "an eye for an eye" but nowadays that doesn't happen.

^wish more people had your attitude Boo

One time I asked this Minister of the gospel what he thought of catholics, he said ;"they are all going to hell"..Lmao

[ByRoN]

Re: CHRISTIANS

The spirit of religion is a horrible thing!!!! when asked what religion i preach i tell them bible!!!!! that the only way.

[deepsouth]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^ well put, Klash. Absolutely!!! I just got done posting about this very thing. The whole concept of hell is a huge topic. Its kind of comical. Some people have said that there is not way I can be a Christitan because I dont beleive in hell or the devil. To them, that is blasphemy. To them, they think that satans got me because I dont buy this bullshit about people burning in hell for eternity because they didnt accept Jesus as their personal savior at church camp...If thats how God is, then yes, thats scary and totally contradicts God as love. Like George Carlin said "God LOVES YOU! But if you dont believe that, then hes going to send throw You into a lake of firre whre you will burn and suffer in darkness for eternity!!!"

The only defense they have about hell? "Its in the bible!"

Interesting Post- I will post this in relation to the Devil( is he real and should you believe he exist):

Matthew 4:1
[ The Temptation of Jesus ] Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 4:5
Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
Matthew 4:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Matthew 4:7-9 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 4:11
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Matthew 4:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 13:39
and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
Matthew 13:38-40 (in Context) Matthew 13 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:40-42 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 4:2
where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
Luke 4:1-3 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 4:3
The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."
Luke 4:2-4 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 4:5
The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.
Luke 4:4-6 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 4:9
The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here.
Luke 4:8-10 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)

now as far as Hell:

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:21-23 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 5:29-31 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:27-29 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:8-10 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:15
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Matthew 23:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 23:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Mark 9:42-44 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
Mark 9:44-46 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
Mark 9:46-48 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)

I would say it is mentioned plenty in the Word and they both exist-This is not a Relgious veiw ,but rather a Christian view. That meaning I don't follow man made religion, but rather the word as it is written

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^ok, Im with you on that deep, but could the words "devil", "enemy" or "hell" just be metaphorical terms?...Like we reap what we sew from unselfishness, etc. There is a evil in the world and some call it satan. There is misery in the world and that could be "hell"...

So there is an actual physical place called "hell" where God throws people so they can burn for eternity?????

As for the bible, Im surprised that most Christians never question the history of the book. Like I find it interesting that I was always the only person around who actually asked "where did it come from?" people call it the "Word of God" without ever knowing where the book came from. So if we dont believe everything in the bible, God is going to throw us into hell forever?????

Im not trying to be a heretic, Im simply asking questions that many Christians are afraid to ask.

Im glad we can have this discussion here. Its good.

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Ok, Deep, one more question. Hypothetical: 18 year old Johnny goes to bible camp for a week with his buddies. They tell him he must accept Jesus as his saviour and that he must accept the bible as the word of God. Johnny says hes not ready to accept it on blind faith like that and decides not to pray "the sinners prayer". The next day Johnny falls off a boat and dies. Is his soul going to burn in hell for eternity?

[horsepwr]

Re: CHRISTIANS

^ok, Im with you on that deep, but could the words "devil", "enemy" or "hell" just be metaphorical terms?...Like we reap what we sew from unselfishness, etc. There is a evil in the world and some call it satan. There is misery in the world and that could be "hell"...

So there is an actual physical place called "hell" where God throws people so they can burn for eternity?????

As for the bible, Im surprised that most Christians never question the history of the book. Like I find it interesting that I was always the only person around who actually asked "where did it come from?" people call it the "Word of God" without ever knowing where the book came from. So if we dont believe everything in the bible, God is going to throw us into hell forever?????

Im not trying to be a heretic, Im simply asking questions that many Christians are afraid to ask.

Im glad we can have this discussion here. Its good.

eye to eye dude. I do concur. I have always wondered why people don't ask, or at least wonder, about these things.
I'm exactly where you are with the whole "hell" issue. My God, and obviously the God that's worshipped by many, would not "cast...any soul in a lake of fire to burn for eternity". My theory, which I know, I shouldn't be thinking for myself, but my little theory is "the maker, or makers" re-work a negative energy/soul. I don't believe that "satan" causes man to do the most horrible, heart wrenching acts. I hate to list examples, but to make the point clear; rape, horrible acts against children, just...the worst things you can think of aren't brought on by some evil spirit nicknamed "the devil". The "evil" is within that person that commits the act of terror. That absolute horror is brewed up by man himself. "the devil made me do it" nahp...you, sir, are just a fouled up soul.

Now, there could be this major "negative" to counter the all-mighty positive. But I don't believe the negative would be absolutely against, or opposite of, the positive. But rather just needed to even things out...there to throw the negative choice out for you to make. Without the negative, the positive just flows without action. There would never be a world, people, choices, etc. It would be positively boring. There would be no reason for anything because the conclusion would always be certain. positive. ya pick up what I'm putting down?

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Im totally pickin up what youre puttin down. makes complete sense to me

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I see this thread has bestowed some great discussion.

Personally - the "bible" as far as I'm concerned is a nice story...nothing more nothing less...written by man (or men - I think there was a woman in there too!! LOL! A bit forward thinking for the day!). No different that any story.
Is it true - - well that is simply for ones personal belief.

Some say yes some say no.
I find it rather troublesome for me to try and believe a book written by a man who is no more right or wrong than you or I is something I need to pattern my every living breath by.
And exactly why can't there be other books?
According to some there are books of the bible that aren't even recognized by some groups....tell me why that is?
Were those folks who wrote them not deemed "holy" enough? And who was to say whether or not they were?
Why couldn't you or I write another passage in the book?

It was written be "Jesus Christ" - so does anything before him mean little or nothing to a "Christian"?
Do the writtings and teachings of the Old Testament just become null and void if they don't jive with the New and the Gospel according Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

What about the faiths as other have mentioned that are far and away longer and more aged than Christianity? Are they wrong because a coupel thousand years ago a new hippie dude showed up on the scene?
So Hinduism, Confucianism, Judaism, Taoism and the like - some of which are thousands of years older than Christianity all of a sudden incorrect and there's a whole line of people standing around saying "Oops My Bad"?


I think not.


And as far as hell is concerned --- well it's a nice way for those in power - who by the way deemed what is "The Word" sometime after (Think King James) -- to stay in power and reinforce their power and keep people in line.
Without the presence and threat of Hell then all those people wouldn't be good little subject and all Hell would break loose!! LOL!!

If a loving "GOD" is the thought of the day - mind you it wasn't always for HE CAN BE A VENGEFUL GOD - then the very thought of hell is silly. Besides any supreme being that created all that there is - is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the good and BAD that happen.
IF someone says the devil made me do it - they may as well say that GOD made me do it as the devil is nothing more than a creation of GOD.

Or are we to believe that there is angels and GOD and that the angels weren't created by GOD? If so, then who created the angels and why aren't they GOD too? then point in case the devil is a fallen angel - fallen from what exactly? and he is GOD too?

It's all a bit silly if one steps back and thinks about it.
And as far as I'm concerned if this all great GOD trully devised a system of the aforementioned HELL then he's a pretty sick individual and I find no cause or reason to worship such a creature, being or whatever label one want to stick on it. So if there is a hell, which would be created by the "GOD" then that "GOD" is a pretty dimented thing that deserves no more than a high hard one to the side of the head.


So again with the "BIBLE" - which version of this story - written by a man, adulterated and interpreted by another man, at some time with who knows what agenda do you follow?????

Do the Mormons have it all wrong with the recent coming of "GOD" to Joseph Smith, Jr.?
Who are we to say it's incorrect? Did "GOD" just stop showing up for the last 2000 years or so?

What about the Apocryphal books? Are these OK to put in or should they be eliminated? And why?

Should one blindly follow a book or question that book if it to be what governs our actions and way of that individuals life?
Some will say it's FAITH - OK that's fine. Faith in a book? Faith that such book was truly written by a couple dozen selected folks who were just sooooo special that they were talked to by this "GOD" and that makes the book ok?

Belief in a creator of sorts I can see. Truly I can.
As HP said “we didn't just rise from the "muck".”
If we did - then where did the “muck” come from???
Simple enough question for me to believe there is something more.
But this whole “GOD” and the devil thing, the whole bible as the word of “GOD” thing - sorry no can do, not buying that one.

Dr Seuss may have more for folks to believe in than that - at least I know I wouldn’t eat green egg and ham….On this I can agree!



Sal

[Sal Paradise]

Re: CHRISTIANS

Went to edit but my slow tihnking arse took too long.
Editted text below.......

If a loving "GOD" is the thought of the day - mind you it wasn't always for HE CAN BE A VENGEFUL GOD - then the very thought of hell is silly. Besides any supreme being that created all that there is - is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the good and BAD that happen.

And don't give me the crap about "free will" - if this "GOD" is omnipotent and all knowing of all that is and all that will be - - then he bloody damn well knows full well what any individual is going to do or will do and therefore directly responsible. Let's praise it for the good and remove all responsibilty for the bad -- sorry total BS.


IF someone says the devil made me do it - they may as well say that GOD made me do it as the devil is nothing more than a creation of GOD.


Sal

[Dzone]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I see this thread has bestowed some great discussion.

Personally - the "bible" as far as I'm concerned is a nice story...nothing more nothing less...written by man (or men - I think there was a woman in there too!! LOL! A bit forward thinking for the day!). No different that any story.
Is it true - - well that is simply for ones personal belief.

Some say yes some say no.
I find it rather troublesome for me to try and believe a book written by a man who is no more right or wrong than you or I is something I need to pattern my every living breath by.
And exactly why can't there be other books?
According to some there are books of the bible that aren't even recognized by some groups....tell me why that is?
Were those folks who wrote them not deemed "holy" enough? And who was to say whether or not they were?
Why couldn't you or I write another passage in the book?

It was written be "Jesus Christ" - so does anything before him mean little or nothing to a "Christian"?
Do the writtings and teachings of the Old Testament just become null and void if they don't jive with the New and the Gospel according Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

What about the faiths as other have mentioned that are far and away longer and more aged than Christianity? Are they wrong because a coupel thousand years ago a new hippie dude showed up on the scene?
So Hinduism, Confucianism, Judaism, Taoism and the like - some of which are thousands of years older than Christianity all of a sudden incorrect and there's a whole line of people standing around saying "Oops My Bad"?


I think not.


And as far as hell is concerned --- well it's a nice way for those in power - who by the way deemed what is "The Word" sometime after (Think King James) -- to stay in power and reinforce their power and keep people in line.
Without the presence and threat of Hell then all those people wouldn't be good little subject and all Hell would break loose!! LOL!!

If a loving "GOD" is the thought of the day - mind you it wasn't always for HE CAN BE A VENGEFUL GOD - then the very thought of hell is silly. Besides any supreme being that created all that there is - is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the good and BAD that happen.
IF someone says the devil made me do it - they may as well say that GOD made me do it as the devil is nothing more than a creation of GOD.

Or are we to believe that there is angels and GOD and that the angels weren't created by GOD? If so, then who created the angels and why aren't they GOD too? then point in case the devil is a fallen angel - fallen from what exactly? and he is GOD too?

It's all a bit silly if one steps back and thinks about it.
And as far as I'm concerned if this all great GOD trully devised a system of the aforementioned HELL then he's a pretty sick individual and I find no cause or reason to worship such a creature, being or whatever label one want to stick on it. So if there is a hell, which would be created by the "GOD" then that "GOD" is a pretty dimented thing that deserves no more than a high hard one to the side of the head.


So again with the "BIBLE" - which version of this story - written by a man, adulterated and interpreted by another man, at some time with who knows what agenda do you follow?????

Do the Mormons have it all wrong with the recent coming of "GOD" to Joseph Smith, Jr.?
Who are we to say it's incorrect? Did "GOD" just stop showing up for the last 2000 years or so?

What about the Apocryphal books? Are these OK to put in or should they be eliminated? And why?

Should one blindly follow a book or question that book if it to be what governs our actions and way of that individuals life?
Some will say it's FAITH - OK that's fine. Faith in a book? Faith that such book was truly written by a couple dozen selected folks who were just sooooo special that they were talked to by this "GOD" and that makes the book ok?

Belief in a creator of sorts I can see. Truly I can.
As HP said “we didn't just rise from the "muck".”
If we did - then where did the “muck” come from???
Simple enough question for me to believe there is something more.
But this whole “GOD” and the devil thing, the whole bible as the word of “GOD” thing - sorry no can do, not buying that one.

Dr Seuss may have more for folks to believe in than that - at least I know I wouldn’t eat green egg and ham….On this I can agree!



Sal

THIS IS A GREAT POST!!!! I HAVE ASKED THESE VERY QUESTIONS! WHEN IVE ASKED THEM, IVE BEEN TOLD THAT IM LETTING SATAN MESS WITH MY THINKING AND I WOULDNT HAVE SUCH QUESTIONS IF I WOULD JUST PRAY. PRAY THAT SATAN STOPS PUTTING DOUBTS IN MY MND. YOU MUST ACCEPT THE BIBLE AS THE UNQUESTONED "WORD OF GOD".. even f You have no dea where the book came from.

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

I see this thread has bestowed some great discussion.

Personally - the "bible" as far as I'm concerned is a nice story...nothing more nothing less...written by man (or men - I think there was a woman in there too!! LOL! A bit forward thinking for the day!). No different that any story.
Is it true - - well that is simply for ones personal belief.

Some say yes some say no.
I find it rather troublesome for me to try and believe a book written by a man who is no more right or wrong than you or I is something I need to pattern my every living breath by.
And exactly why can't there be other books?
According to some there are books of the bible that aren't even recognized by some groups....tell me why that is?
Were those folks who wrote them not deemed "holy" enough? And who was to say whether or not they were?
Why couldn't you or I write another passage in the book?

It was written be "Jesus Christ" - so does anything before him mean little or nothing to a "Christian"?
Do the writtings and teachings of the Old Testament just become null and void if they don't jive with the New and the Gospel according Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

What about the faiths as other have mentioned that are far and away longer and more aged than Christianity? Are they wrong because a coupel thousand years ago a new hippie dude showed up on the scene?
So Hinduism, Confucianism, Judaism, Taoism and the like - some of which are thousands of years older than Christianity all of a sudden incorrect and there's a whole line of people standing around saying "Oops My Bad"?


I think not.


And as far as hell is concerned --- well it's a nice way for those in power - who by the way deemed what is "The Word" sometime after (Think King James) -- to stay in power and reinforce their power and keep people in line.
Without the presence and threat of Hell then all those people wouldn't be good little subject and all Hell would break loose!! LOL!!

If a loving "GOD" is the thought of the day - mind you it wasn't always for HE CAN BE A VENGEFUL GOD - then the very thought of hell is silly. Besides any supreme being that created all that there is - is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the good and BAD that happen.
IF someone says the devil made me do it - they may as well say that GOD made me do it as the devil is nothing more than a creation of GOD.

Or are we to believe that there is angels and GOD and that the angels weren't created by GOD? If so, then who created the angels and why aren't they GOD too? then point in case the devil is a fallen angel - fallen from what exactly? and he is GOD too?

It's all a bit silly if one steps back and thinks about it.
And as far as I'm concerned if this all great GOD trully devised a system of the aforementioned HELL then he's a pretty sick individual and I find no cause or reason to worship such a creature, being or whatever label one want to stick on it. So if there is a hell, which would be created by the "GOD" then that "GOD" is a pretty dimented thing that deserves no more than a high hard one to the side of the head.


So again with the "BIBLE" - which version of this story - written by a man, adulterated and interpreted by another man, at some time with who knows what agenda do you follow?????

Do the Mormons have it all wrong with the recent coming of "GOD" to Joseph Smith, Jr.?
Who are we to say it's incorrect? Did "GOD" just stop showing up for the last 2000 years or so?

What about the Apocryphal books? Are these OK to put in or should they be eliminated? And why?

Should one blindly follow a book or question that book if it to be what governs our actions and way of that individuals life?
Some will say it's FAITH - OK that's fine. Faith in a book? Faith that such book was truly written by a couple dozen selected folks who were just sooooo special that they were talked to by this "GOD" and that makes the book ok?

Belief in a creator of sorts I can see. Truly I can.
As HP said “we didn't just rise from the "muck".”
If we did - then where did the “muck” come from???
Simple enough question for me to believe there is something more.
But this whole “GOD” and the devil thing, the whole bible as the word of “GOD” thing - sorry no can do, not buying that one.

Dr Seuss may have more for folks to believe in than that - at least I know I wouldn’t eat green egg and ham….On this I can agree!



Sal

Sal, very well stated!!

[Klash]

Re: CHRISTIANS

THIS IS A GREAT POST!!!! I HAVE ASKED THESE VERY QUESTIONS! WHEN IVE ASKED THEM, IVE BEEN TOLD THAT IM LETTING SATAN MESS WITH MY THINKING AND I WOULDNT HAVE SUCH QUESTIONS IF I WOULD JUST PRAY. PRAY THAT SATAN STOPS PUTTING DOUBTS IN MY MND. YOU MUST ACCEPT THE BIBLE AS THE UNQUESTONED "WORD OF GOD".. even f You have no dea where the book came from.

Yeah, intellectual honesty isn't a very popular characteristic in religion. It's ironic the one thing that my spiritually superior family is most ashamed of me for is the one thing I am most proud of - escaping the dogmatic chains of religion; the religious will relentlessly use fear and guilt to keep you from escaping their intellectual prison.