Obama's next "Karl Rove"

[FUZO]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

Are you agreeing that almost a trillion dollars should be pumped out to boost economy, and how & where he plans to dole it out?

Obama doesnt have a fukin clue but to keep spending and putting us deeper in the red

[JsJs24]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

Isn't it funny how Obama claims governemnt is the only fix. Has he ever studies U.S. History. The government intervening has always proved negative except by lowering taxes. Hell, the government is to blaim for most of this mess in the first place. And these idiots think they can fix it. This is pathetic. I tell you, if we don't watch our spending we may end up on the losing end of a cold war with China or Russia in the future. Do not doubt their best interests. The more we spend the more we borrow from other countries. At the present China owns over 1 trillion dollars in U.S. T-Bonds. Imagine if they wanted to cash those in. I think democratic parties in office potentially put us at grave risk.

Hey one more thing while I'm rambling............Isn't it funny how the more screwed up the economic mess the country is in the MORE the dems lean toward the center to fix them such as lowering taxes. Why can't these idiots admit that lower taxes equals more money for the economy and the government. Look at CA where I am, the state is broke and so is NY.....and imagine this, they are the 2 highest taxed states in the country. Buy a freakin clue. And Arnold might as well be a damn democrat. Now he is talking of adding 13 cents tax to the already overpriced gas prices in this state. Pathetic.

[trip]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

stouts examples of "yelling" do seem to cover your definition as well.

now, I'm confused trip. We spoke about economy and why America is what it is, and how we became the super-power we are about a year or so ago. I concluded from your thoughts then, that you would be absolutely in disagreement with Obama's proposed government of this economy. Are you agreeing that almost a trillion dollars should be pumped out to boost economy, and how & where he plans to dole it out?

going back to the original tarp plan by paulson, my posts were this

we will have to be communists for a few years, if we are we expereince pain on a level of 3, if we don't we could expereince it on a level of 8

what will the guys in charge do, they'll take a chance on being communists for a few years, believing they can get back too where they want to be after a few years

that was the decision up on the table over a weekend

it's a damned if u do, damned it u don't

imho, why they chose present root, the probabilites of "Social Unrest" if you hit an 8 on the pain scale is a catastrophic event, due to our obligations, winding down iraq and afgan

if u go into "social unrest" mode, now terrorist organization have twenty times more nut jobs too recruit, plus a myriad of other stuff that might happen


It is so easy to TALK TALK TALK about this stuff, and what if's and what is correct solution, etc.

The reality is it is a vice grip when u r in the cat birds seat.

Even though I am EXTREMELY REPETITIVE, in how i see things developing along this road, and what is the next step, most folks are reactive to what they HEAR..........which blurs good long and short term thinking.

What we must SEE HAPPENING over the next six months is MASSIVE RESTRAINT on lot's of spending programs.

If obie spends here, and cuts massively there, the message becomes CONCRET, we got here thru stupidity, we can only get out of here by being SMART

and what is smart right now, having a plan to pay shyte off, and start on that plan now, so everyone knows it is coming and it will be done

Note, he keeps on saying I'm open to all ideas, all of em, bring em on. He ain't smoking dope here, he is serious, very serious.

Bottom Line though, is we are in fact here, all economies are based on energy, access to it, efficiency of it, spending money to get your energy from the sun is common sense, same as wind, now presently the roi is not as good on a pure 3-5-7 year basis, yet, if you focus on bringing down costs, and think in terms of 15-20-40 years, it is the right investment.

IMHO, he has a 3 month window to get AUSTERITY ACTS (on govt. spending, earmarks, etc.) in gear, if not, he will lose alot of good will, because we all know, we are in fact too heavily in debt, and if debt is not addressed, the probability for careening out of control grows month by month, a Tipping Point moment lurking on the horizon.

we shall see

[FUZO]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

we will have to be communists for a few years

Bull shit we never have to be communists how can you say that.You trip will just keep rambling on about your dirty chicago politician president now.He is already going to spend and put us deeper in the red.you dont want to even listen to anyone on who obama appointed and how bad they are.but you think your miricle god oabam will save the usa.your wrong and its already showing how bad he is doing and he isnt even in the office

[Stout1]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

That is great...we HAVE to be communists to fix this? What's this world coming to?

[trip]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

bush nationalized the banking system, if you think it is private and capitalistic your are most welcome to believe that

[Stout1]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

bush nationalized the banking system, if you think it is private and capitalistic your are most welcome to believe that

You said we HAVE to be communitst to fix this. So you must be in agreement with him.

[trip]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

rolfmao, bush made that decision not me, in his final press conference he admitted it, "I had to give up my free market capitlistic principles"

i don't make decisions based on opinions, since i was not in the oval office with the facts he was presented, who knows, i'm in disagreement with alot of his believes on things, that is a fact

as u like to say, i'm just stating the obvious

in my OPINION, based on past history, the only fix, is working more and spending less, that will take time, 4-5 years, which is why i OFTEN say if obie goes on austerity buy, in my OPINION we have a shot, if not, who da heck knows, we have too much debt and not enough profits too support the debt, that is bizz 101

[Stout1]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

rolfmao, bush made that decision not me, in his final press conference he admitted it, "I had to give up my free market capitlistic principles"

i don't make decisions based on opinions, since i was not in the oval office with the facts he was presented, who knows, i'm in disagreement with alot of his believes on things, that is a fact

as u like to say, i'm just stating the obvious

in my OPINION, based on past history, the only fix, is working more and spending less, that will take time, 4-5 years, which is why i OFTEN say if obie goes on austerity buy, in my OPINION we have a shot, if not, who da heck knows, we have too much debt and not enough profits too support the debt, that is bizz 101

But Obama wants ANOTHER bailout.

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

so, getting back to this at the week ending.
Did I hear correctly? Is Obama going to spend almost a trillion dollars? Is that concrete? That's not good, is it trip?
What did the first chunk of change do?
imho, we're fuked. We got a president coming in that seems to be playing out exactly as one might expect him to...being his lifelong experiences, influences, actions, and words. We're ending up with a massive government, government dependancy, and nationalization.
I might rather the 8 pain factor for much less time. Rip the band-aid off quick. Than a continuous lower pain factor,(and that is only lower in some areas of economy). There is still a pain factor of 10 in many sections, but the slow, life support government plan has proven painful for much longer.

I don't know. I'm no economist. We'll see. We'll never know what could've been. I think after the initial panic of no government intervention, we would have seen a widespread economic blossoming of knew corps and banking like never before. A brand new, fresh system of competence. Yes, there would have been some lifelong, "old-money" suicides. Ya know, the guys that created the mess. Alot of them wouldn't have been capable of handling it. Just as they evidently can't handle business, but there is a nation full of competent wealth that would've opened up a brand new replacement. Alot of unknown Donald Trumps and Richard Bransons out there that would've grabbed the bull by the horns. Wouldn't it be nice to see free market spending instead of only government? The economy would've had that new car smell. But...we'll never get to see that garden flourish.

[trip]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

hp,

when u r at a spot with NO GOOD SOLUTION, what u do is pick one, commit to it, and get ur ass working, same with diet, training, your family etc. it's very KISS

YOU DO YOUR "BEST RIGHT NOW" AND ADJUST ALONG THE WAY

that is where we are at

how we got here, again, 40-1 leverage, and INSANE POLICY, along with no government regulation of derivatives, which in ten years went from 50 trillion too 550 trillion in credit swaps

derivatives were and still are, Unregulated Insurance Products, an example would be you say you want to gain 20 lbs of muscle by year end, you pay me 10 bucks to insure that u will make, i will pay you 50 bucks if u don't.............now think about that last sentence, what is it worth, to me ten bucks, to you some piece of mind, now at the end of the year if u don't make it what is it worth, to me ten bucks to you being pissed off, cause guess what, try and collect your money from me, u can't cause it was a gentlemans handshake and if i choose to screw u i easily can, cause what is your recourse, saying bad things about me on the internet.............

now, derivatives by nature are a zero sum game, until one party goes bankrupth, which is what we have had, 10,000 big money banks at that party and 20 have gone bankrupt, now that has caused a cascading loss of 15 trillion bucks on a worlwide economy of 55 trillion

the banks are for all intents and purposes toast cause they were were up to there eyeballs in this crap

so, since all the banks know they are up to their eyeballs in this crap, they are scared shitless about sending money back and forth to each other because one day they would wake up and boom the counter party could be gone, so if one bank sent another 500 million over night expecting to get back 400 million the next day, ie, just checks and payments between there customers accounts, and the one bank get's the 500 million and is gone the next day, the first bank is now out 900 million and they are poof gone

the banking system was in fact at a point of vaporizing just poof being gone all in a matter of a few weeks

that is an extremely hard conept to even consider because when u get into the facts it logically shows HOW ****ING INSANELY OUT OF CONTROL THEY WERE, and when u do that the average person begins too lose trust in everything, especially when there own money vaporizes..............like the biz u work for had 5 million account at one of those banks, walla, it's only insured up too 250k, poof, they are now bk and u now have no job

THE SYSTEMIC RISK that was on the table was off the charts, if the worst had happened, next up on the board was SOCIAL UNREST, yup, zimbobwhey US of A, again another concept no one would believe

now, it seems we are past systemic risk, the total bill for the insanity is pretty clear now 2 trillion bucks the banks just pissed away in a year

right now, we have a banking system to limp along, and massive job losses, what is up on the plate is deflation

so, as a whole a nation, we have no trust in government, zippo zero, for real change too happen, u have too re-establish trust, then u go thru a phase of faith, ie, feelings come back that okay we shyte under control, and then u have a phase of believe, okay we got this sucker licked

those 3 phases will take time, and it's real hard to have trust with no job

so, he hammers on jobs jobs jobs

will it work, who knows, no one knows, can we work our way out of it and be better in the long run, you betcha, we have to be smarter, work harder and do it one day at a time

[FUZO]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

and you think that this 850,billion stimulis package is going to make 3 million jobs,bull shit. This is only digging us deeper.his promises were all b-s

[trip]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

i never said, that, i'm pointing out facts, and commenting on there intended actions and why they believe it is the right thing

if a mechanic ****s up your car u don't bring it back to him, do u, the repubs did, and the dems see as this is the way out

pretty clear in my book

one more, i have no idea how it will all work out

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

thanks for the re-cap, but I know it. I live here too. I know that I also think differently than that. I'd rather have the band-aid yanked off, and let it heal. I wouldn't want to go on totally dependant. period. I guess that's the big difference between me and some folks. I'd watch fukers panic, while I have a plan, soil, family, and means. It wouldn't be the end of my world. If you pulled my freedom to go, and work, and make it on my own...offered me the government ticket instead of my free will to move around and do with my life, my way, what I want with it. I'd say FUK YOU! I'll start over. Just turn me loose. That's the difference between me and guys that are programmed that it would be the "end all". sheeeit...that train of thought is insanity.

and as I said. It must be really difficult for some folks to imagine, but there is a whole buncha people out there that coulda and woulda took the reins. That don't work on Wall St. That don't have all their money in Lehman Bros, or fully vested with Madoff. balee dat

[trip]

Re: Obama's next "Karl Rove"

horsepower,

the big fear is social unrest, ala, like zimbobwe, total breakdown in society, of course some woudl rule yet for the most it would be armageddon, and the big question is how long would it take to stabilize, again, most folks pooh pooh this idea, oh never happen

yet, six months ago, all would pooh pooh nationalizing banks,

on adjusted dollar basis they are throwing as much money at it, as world war II effort, ww two was a fight for freedom to save the world from ******, imho, although it is not a decision you want to make or have too make, in the deep dark of night, one can justify it for the reasons of, perhaps we are saving freedom again, and hell if your going to spend money, better on yourself than others, at least at end of day, you got something

alot of the problem is the total shock and disgust of government and lack of trust, a majority of these problems are just plain stupidity, why have we gone 40 years without a national energy policy, does no one not believe that our whole economy and the world is based on energy