big 3 bailout...

[deepsouth]

Re: big 3 bailout...

....could you imagine running into me on a car lot!! i dont quit till i make the sale, lol),

This cracked me up Dave-LOL. I have purchased 18 vehicles in the last 15yrs. I didn't buy tags for years, but I have been TO'd many times at dealerships. Those guys that don't quit and stayed in my face while I was dealing-normally TO'd me because they wound up pissing me off.

Now as far as the bailout- you do make a good point about the Big 3, but this recession is going to last far longer than the money they are asking for- they will be back asking for more. When does it end??? I didn't agree with the first one and I don't with this one. As far as MPG- the Govt. should have any say in it- it should be consumer driven.

[3sweeties]

Re: big 3 bailout...

worlwide 150 barrell of oil crushed us all

I'm probably way off here, but I've always had the theory that the middle east probably couldn't take us militarily but they could screw with our economy.

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

hp...i know what a nanny state is and what you were referring too. i guess, fuk it...we might as well not even try to help them with the loan. let the people find new work in another industry.. i'll be fine. they'll always be usedcars to sell, and if deepsouth can be smoked into buying a fullsize toyota pick up in the heart of texas, i guess i can switch over and tell people of all the many, many reasons to buy a good quality used foriegn auto!!!


deepsouth...you baught a toyota pick up. your in texas. you aint been to'd buy me!!! we'd get along just fine!!! i'd probobly be able to get that new kitchen my wife's been wanting. thank you.

3sweeties...i agree with you!!! i've said that before myself, but i think the recent oil prices were more market (stock market) driven. when people stopped buying the stock, the prices per barrell dropped and the price at the pump dropped

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

for now!! thats slipping away too!
fuk it...you can buy some people a book, but you cant make them read. it's no wonder this country's fuked up. i'm no union fan (it mat appear otherwise, but i'm not)...i'm in a union state that wont stop being a union state. i'm not trying to stick up for their practices, but i know the concession made, while not being all thats needs to be made, are big ones! most have started. some more in 09, and 2010...but whatever. bottom line....keep buying foriegn cars and whine about what happens next, later!
"chapter 11!!!", "chapter 11", thats all people want to say. are you all gonna run out and do your part and purchase a vehicle from a bankrupt auto manufacture???!! yea...ok...your realistic.

Trip is right about one thing, this is all about banks trusting each other (confidence) but why is confidence so critical in our system? Because we are on a central banking system, which has a monopoly on our fiat currency which is backed only by our faith and trust that our currency has worth. With the government not only supporting that lending institutions make risky loans but forcing them to by pushing government agencies to loosen credit criteria in the name of "community reinvestment" we thenn had a big money supply, a big credit supply and lose credit criteria by lending institutions (all manipulated by the government) and gradually reality starts to set in last spring. The subprime real estate loans were only the catalyst that lifted the veil of delusion.

The government has artificially expanded our fiat money supply and credit for so long that the central banking system is too small to fix the economy - there tools are insignificant for the problem, they cannot offer enough to provide confidence. So now government is going to try and offer confidence by guaranteeing inter bank trading by offering more printed paper but banks will still go under. We will experience hyper inflation and we will all feel it anyway, despite what happens to the big three, - so I think your concern for saving the big three is misguided. Your just more on the front lines of an industry that will be the first to feel the pain and you are seeing what most of us will see in a few months. It's time to pay the piper and government can't stop that but ironically they will try to use more of what caused the problem to stop it - government intervention. Oh, it's time to take my Xanax!!!

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

sorry trip, but oil prices is not what caused any of this..not by a long shot...what caused this is not hard to see.....go into any city or suburb, and look at the houses that have been built in the last 10 years....way more than people need, andwaaaayyyy more than most people could afford. A family making 60k a year does not need, and certainly cant afford a 300k house..but thats what we wanted....has to have big fancy gables, vaulted ceilings, tile floor, block fence around house...what happened to the simple ranch style houses built in the 70's and 80's....oh, their friend who can afford one of them big fancy homes bought one, so now they need one....We all gambled that the market was going to stay strong and took interest only loans hoping to have enough equity to resale when the term on loan was up, and buy another....oil has nothing to do wit this...if we had built/bought, a 100k home instead, the xtra $2 at pump wouldnt have been nothing more than chicken feed

[FUZO]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Exactly pigmeat no way was it the oil. ghreedy fukin people who wanted more then they can chew,and now look where everyone is ate that took a big bite

[Stout1]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It's the American dream to be in debt.

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It's the American dream to be in debt.

...and the federal government promoting it with artificially low interest rates, community reinvestment acts and if there is a problem just print more money but keep promoting debt and spending because saving - well that phucks everything up. Phucking government logic.

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Trip is right about one thing, this is all about banks trusting each other (confidence) but why is confidence so critical in our system? Because we are on a central banking system, which has a monopoly on our fiat currency which is backed only by our faith and trust that our currency has worth. With the government not only supporting that lending institutions make risky loans but forcing them to by pushing government agencies to loosen credit criteria in the name of "community reinvestment" we thenn had a big money supply, a big credit supply and lose credit criteria by lending institutions (all manipulated by the government) and gradually reality starts to set in last spring. The subprime real estate loans were only the catalyst that lifted the veil of delusion.

The government has artificially expanded our fiat money supply and credit for so long that the central banking system is too small to fix the economy - there tools are insignificant for the problem, they cannot offer enough to provide confidence. So now government is going to try and offer confidence by guaranteeing inter bank trading by offering more printed paper but banks will still go under. We will experience hyper inflation and we will all feel it anyway, despite what happens to the big three, - so I think your concern for saving the big three is misguided. Your just more on the front lines of an industry that will be the first to feel the pain and you are seeing what most of us will see in a few months. It's time to pay the piper and government can't stop that but ironically they will try to use more of what caused the problem to stop it - government intervention. Oh, it's time to take my Xanax!!!

i agree with what your saying, but misguided concern? it's silly to be concerned with the big3 going under? seriously? you just said that? i guess i'm just a silly fuker that way bro...
your right about one thing...i'm at the front line for the biginning...after they go down, it'll run it's course through the rest of the nation! look up the statistics on flint michigan if you want to see a SAMPLE of whats gonna happen. check em out 30 years ago and check em out now...
yep...i'm a silly fuker i am. lol
...also, you watch what happens next*. with the banks using THEIR bailout money to buy other banks and NOt loosen the purse strings on lending, as intended, they ( the gov) is gonna step in again! they will FORCE them to lend again...get ready for a new round of regulations the you've only dreamed of (or had nightmares of)


*ofcourse...this is posted by a miguided concerned silly fuker, so i could be wrong

[Stout1]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Why can other companies turn a profit?

<H1>Honda opens new U.S. plant as Detroit seeks bailout

Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:50pm EST

By Andrea Hopkins

GREENSBURG, Indiana (Reuters) - The rest of the country may have been debating the possible bankruptcy of America's iconic automakers on Monday, but in southeast Indiana more than 1,000 U.S. workers were cheering the opening of Honda's newest assembly plant.

As a shiny Honda Civic sedan rolled up beside Indiana's governor and Honda's president, Greensburg Mayor Gary Herbert posed a question designed to remind Americans that the U.S. auto industry extends beyond Detroit.

"Is this Civic an American-built automobile?" Herbert thundered, smiling at a sea of white-suited workers who seemed very pleased to have landed high-paying jobs in an industry where layoffs are common.

"Yes," came the shouted reply from hundreds of voices.

The rise of Honda's mammoth new car plant in America's farming heartland is a stark contrast to the layoffs and plant closings announced in recent months by General Motors Corp, Ford Motor Co and Chrysler LLC.

But for the Honda workers here, their jobs -- with a starting wage of $18.41 an hour -- are just as much part of the U.S. auto industry as those at their imperiled Detroit competitors. They just don't get as noticed.

"GM has laid off and cut back how many people and Honda is building a plant. What is Honda doing right? Maybe they should look at this model and learn something instead of getting a bailout," shrugged new Honda worker Larry Giles, 41.

According to 2007 figures compiled by the Center for Automotive Research, foreign automakers including Honda, Toyota and Nissan employed some 113,000 workers in the United States, about half of the 239,000 employed by Detroit's Big Three.

Like much of the country, Honda workers in Indiana have been watching the debate over the proposed $25 billion rescue plan of GM, Ford and Chrysler with mounting frustration.

OPPOSED TO BAILOUT

"I don't think they should be bailed out at all," said paint shop worker Tony Mitchell, 38. Hired by Honda in July after being laid off from his job at an American faucet-maker, Mitchell said his job was "a dream come true." And he doesn't like the precedent set by a bailout of Honda's competitors.

"It says that if you get in another bind three years down the road someone is going to bail you out again," he said.

Officially, Honda is far more circumspect about prospects for an industry rescue plan.
"Honda would support measures that would maintain the stability and viability of the auto industry," Honda spokesman Jeffrey Smith said in an interview, noting that parts suppliers were heavily integrated throughout the industry.

That the so-called foreign "transplants" are keeping their heads down as Congress debates the future of their

</H1>

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

well, the fact is we know everyone drives, and every business needs energy

the fact is we do not know who bought more home than they could afford, yes, sub-prime was a mess, yet, that came from low interest rates, and arms

it's a multiplier effect, the upper middle class has the extra money but they don't go out for a nice meal, middle class, can't buy that couch or fridge, lower is screwed

companies have too re-adjust there budgets, cause no one knows what would happen, thus they cut capital expenditures, laid off marginal workers, etc.

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

stout...#1. they dont have the obligations that the domestics have.
#2. i believe that they were given ALOT of help from japan when they started out or they NEVER would have made it to begin with.
and the whole point is, if we let them go under, they are dragging MANY others with them. why is it that toyota, honda (as stated in your article) and the rest of them are keeping quiet or actually supporting a buy out? if they go down (the big3), it'll hurt the foriegn manufactures as well...dont anybody see the BIG picture here!! i didnt realize the rest of the nation was so anti-detroit that they'd slit their own wrist as apposed to LOAN money to a company in an industry thats barrowed and repaid before!!! wtf is wrong with you people??! yes corporate greed pisses me off. yes, them riding jets pisses me off. yes, the fact that their kids will have a x-mas while mine wont, pisses me the fuk off!! but i dont want everyone else to get fuked becouse i'm pissed off!!! stop! think! really look at the trickle effect here!!! you think honda will swoop in with more factoy's and fix it all? toyoyta? please...wake up. they will be realing from the pain as well. parts manufactures and vendors will fold. cost for ALL auto's will go up! mortgage defaults will go up even more. your house will be worth LESS. your 401k will be worth LESS. cost for replacement parts will go up.

wow...there i go, getting all silly and shyt with my misguided concern...fuk 'em all.....and everyone that'll be effected by it....all million plus of them (or maybe even some members here...y'all dont think this wont touch you, do ya? LMAO. yea right)

[firstenrgy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Why can other companies turn a profit?

</H1>

Most of the big three's problems are expenditures from pensions and obligations of old when the unions squeezed them.
It sucks for people who are in the industry now. That's why I want to see them file chapter 11 to get out from under this crap. Daved is going to blow a gasket (sorry for the pun) for using the chapter 11 phrase but I think it will really help the industry so people like him can make money again.

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Most of the big three's problems are expenditures from pensions and obligations of old when the unions squeezed them.
It sucks for people who are in the industry now. That's why I want to see them file chapter 11 to get out from under this crap. Daved is going to blow a gasket (sorry for the pun) for using the chapter 11 phrase but I think it will really help the industry so people like him can make money again.

i'm not gonna blow a gasket bro. i dont agree with 11. people arent gonna rush out and purchase a unit from a manufacture in 11 (even if they COULD get financed). if i remember right, the pensions and health care are protected from 11, so i dont see the advantage there that you do! remember when gm canceled oldsmobile? that wasnt an 11 and people were affraid to buy the run off (after the announcement) becouse they thaught they wouldnt be able to get parts and service for them...which ofcourse, they could. took gm 2.5 yrs to DUMP those units!! how's that gonna help.

as far as me...when i go back to selling. i sell USEDCARS...and not to sound to coky, i'm good. real good. i'll be fine. i know the in's and out's of subprime lending. i can relate to a king, a jestor or a pesant with ease. my concern is for our entire nation bro...i know by your comments, you dont see it...but i havnt heard how anyones gonna save these vendors from collapse. foriegn cant buy ALL the parts! whats the plans for all the jobless? those fukers may make it a bit difficult to sell a car!! kinda tuff when a dude aint got a job!

[firstenrgy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

i'm not gonna blow a gasket bro. i dont agree with 11. people arent gonna rush out and purchase a unit from a manufacture in 11 (even if they COULD get financed). if i remember right, the pensions and health care are protected from 11, so i dont see the advantage there that you do! remember when gm canceled oldsmobile? that wasnt an 11 and people were affraid to buy the run off (after the announcement) becouse they thaught they wouldnt be able to get parts and service for them...which ofcourse, they could. took gm 2.5 yrs to DUMP those units!! how's that gonna help.

Well, healthcare is not gauraunteed unless the UAW has some special rule like the railroad workrs are excluded from the social security system. The minimum annuties used for the purchase of a pension is gauranteed. This is usally only a portion of the monies collected by the recepient. Remeber in the eighties when "corporate raiders" went after companies with no debt and overfunded pensions? UAW pension, unemployment fund were all negotiated based on an ever growing stock price, dividends that will never be achieved and chapter 11 can fix that. Like you said, I guess we disagree. I just want autos to continue to be made here.