big 3 bailout...

[Waterboy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

I'm sorry, I can't get behind a bailout for any of these companies without it's unions making some concessions.
Other companies have been in the same situation and their unions made concessions to help out.
Well. the UAW is standing firm, will not take anything less than they are already getting. Everyone at this time needs to help to keep their jobs at the respective company. If GM goes under due to the union being stupid, then so be it.
No one in this country wnats to give any help to any compnay if they are not willing to help themselves.
Why should someone making 15-20 dollars and hour want to help someone making 75 dollars an hour?
GM says no to Chapter 11 bankruptcy, just can't do it. Bubt under Chapter 11, GM could restructure and reorganize. BBut the hidden message is that under Chapter 11 it doesn't have to honor the union contracts. But can't do that, the unons are to deep in bed with big government. That means big Government would be breaking it's promises to unions.

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

tell the execs to take only a 500k salary, and then i will think about helping them....who else makes 25 million a year and drives the company to bankrupcy

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

I'm sorry, I can't get behind a bailout for any of these companies without it's unions making some concessions.
Other companies have been in the same situation and their unions made concessions to help out.
Well. the UAW is standing firm, will not take anything less than they are already getting. Everyone at this time needs to help to keep their jobs at the respective company. If GM goes under due to the union being stupid, then so be it.
No one in this country wnats to give any help to any compnay if they are not willing to help themselves.
Why should someone making 15-20 dollars and hour want to help someone making 75 dollars an hour?
GM says no to Chapter 11 bankruptcy, just can't do it. Bubt under Chapter 11, GM could restructure and reorganize. BBut the hidden message is that under Chapter 11 it doesn't have to honor the union contracts. But can't do that, the unons are to deep in bed with big government. That means big Government would be breaking it's promises to unions.

ditto, if these union guys wont work for $20 an hour, then i know a bunch of mexicans that will

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Well. the UAW is standing firm, will not take anything less than they are already getting.

I didn't know that.
That says a lot about how much they're in bed with big government; there's not a doubt in their mind that the nanny state won't be scratching their back.

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

ya espcially now with the dems

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

You do realize who your agreeing with?

lol...yes i realize. i always thaught trip was a smart guy, regardless of his political views. i know your only joking!




I remember us both agreeing Paulson should not have so much power with the bailout money and that even if the $700 billion bailout passed there was a good chance it wouldn't work.


yep...we still agree! i just dont see all the outrage that it's not working!! and, there's is a direct relationship to it not working and the prob's the big3 are having. if it's ALL part of the credit crisis (and it is in LARGE part to that, then wouldnt it be smart to put part of that 700billion to use saving millions of jobs? i mean...alot of those people are paying for their houses now...why fuk it up more?




MPG should be a demand issue, not a government requirement. This is just another way for the liberals to shove their freakin "green" $hit down our societies throat but if a company has a superior product and are still failing they obviously have some expense issues.[/quote]


well...shouldnt be, but is! and thats my point...they've made alot of the neccessary adjustments and fixes they needed to make to be proffitable. if it wasnt for this banking disastor, they wouldnt be nearly in the mess that they are in. ford was all set with money and on their way to the black by 2010. they had enough to carry them if it wasnt for a 40% drop in 9 mo's! 2010 is what...14mo's away? their plan is solid. this was an unessessary and unforseen bump in the road! they need the time!




FROM THE FUKING GOVERNMENT!!! ...and governments don't make money - THEY TAKE IT!!! (sorry for yelling) [/quote]


it's ok to yell...i do it all the time, lol. the money's been set up bro. your out anyway. do you think it's sooo much of a better idea for the gov. to purchase bad mortgage debt? we're out the money anyways! like it or not, 700billion is being doled out! if it's being doled out, i'd rather see it go to save a nieghbors job then to buy his forclosed house and sell it for .20 on the doller! this is just better biz sence to me (says the guy thats lost 2 buisnesses, lol). on top of buying the bad debt, who do you think is gonna pay for unemployment? retraining? you'll also be happy to know you'll be paying more for your transportation in the future. less vendors, less manufacture's, less compition! either way your gonna pay, and pay, and pay!! HOW do you WANT to pay? do you want to help save millions of jobs? let these folks keep contributing to the economy? help prop up an american icon? or...do you want to pay more to the government so they can dole it out in unemployment, welfare and purchasing more bad motgage debt? do you want to lesson compition so the prices of future auto's are not being kept in check with compition. it aint a question of IF your gonna pay....it's how are you gonna pay!





....repaid? I don't remember getting a check! Oh wait, that's probably because Chris Dodd or Barney Frank used it to fly across country to pick up their gay hookers from the Chinese sex ring. [/quote]

...or it's becouse you were probobly 12 at the time, lol. it was 1979 when the u.s. government bailed out chrysler. and yes, it was repaid....with intrest. that you dont remember, i'm not surprised, but that it happened is the truth! now....it made sence then, and it makes sence now.

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

I'm sorry, I can't get behind a bailout for any of these companies without it's unions making some concessions.
Other companies have been in the same situation and their unions made concessions to help out.
Well. the UAW is standing firm, will not take anything less than they are already getting. Everyone at this time needs to help to keep their jobs at the respective company. If GM goes under due to the union being stupid, then so be it.
No one in this country wnats to give any help to any compnay if they are not willing to help themselves.
Why should someone making 15-20 dollars and hour want to help someone making 75 dollars an hour?
GM says no to Chapter 11 bankruptcy, just can't do it. Bubt under Chapter 11, GM could restructure and reorganize. BBut the hidden message is that under Chapter 11 it doesn't have to honor the union contracts. But can't do that, the unons are to deep in bed with big government. That means big Government would be breaking it's promises to unions.

dude...they just had a strike a year ago and made all kids of concession!!! they are cutting the heavy money makers and replacing them with a lower starting wage!!! they put lower cielings in place. they have restructured the pensions and restructured the health care payouts. dont any of you remember any of this? i know nobody pays attention to what goes on up here, but c'mon!!! they've cut 30% of their upper end work force??!!! wtf. and yea...i think it's a smarter move to let them go under and support 3million people with my tax money...your right fuk 'em...

i'll teach that nose to get big...i'll cut that fuker off in spite of my face...jeez

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

another thing i just realized...klash, your usually WAAAAY better at putting together oposing arguments! you've made me rethink my opinions on shyt MANY times!! why the softballs now? are you just aurguing out of frustration and anger for the situation, or do you really think it'd be a bad idea to loan 25bil of the 700bil (that your paying out anyways) to help buy the big3 time until the new labor contracts kick in next spring and credit slacks up? i mean, seriously, your throwing softballs to me!! i can hit those out of the park all day!! please...tell me really why it's not a good idea. you actually think that whats going on in congress now is anything more than a dog and pony show. you dont think congress is getting on their soap box becouse thats what they think the public want to see? you think toyota saying that letting them (the big3) go bankrupt would be the biggest mistake for the whole global economy is just some bullshyt statement ammounting to nothing? you have me thinking that you actually dont see the devastating domino effect that this will cause the entire nation and yet you cant put forth a clear, convincing argument as to why this is so bad? c'mon bro, your way more intellegent than this...enlighten me. show me the error's in my way.

[FUZO]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Fuk the unions they all suck. My union can go suck all the corperate big wigs balls.The unions are all in bed woth the corperate world

[firstenrgy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

The unions have strong armed the companies for years into these ridiculous contracts companies were forced to pass these costs on to the consumer. Since foreign corps don't have these expenses, they found out they couldn't sell cars. This was over ten years ago (that's a conservative estimate). We CANNOT give them a dime unless they go into chapter 11 and come up with a sound business plan. They have none right now. I watched the hearings. They still had the nerve to show up with hat in hand looking for a hand out like this crept up on them with no warning and they are victims. LET THEM EAT CAKE!

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

The unions have strong armed the companies for years into these ridiculous contracts companies were forced to pass these costs on to the consumer. Since foreign corps don't have these expenses, they found out they couldn't sell cars. This was over ten years ago (that's a conservative estimate). We CANNOT give them a dime unless they go into chapter 11 and come up with a sound business plan. They have none right now. I watched the hearings. They still had the nerve to show up with hat in hand looking for a hand out like this crept up on them with no warning and they are victims. LET THEM EAT CAKE!

?....they have none? you havnt really looked into this much, have ya bro? your sorce of info is from the hearings? contracts with unions have been re-negotiated (as i've stated over and over that you must have not read). the average hrly cost from total expense per car has been slashed from 71$ an hr to 23$ per hr!! how is that NOT solid!! toyota pays more than that!! you sound like one of those alabama congresmen that think it's 1980 still!! "they aught ta put sum of them cd players in them gas guzzlers, like them foriegn boy's do!!" wake up old man!! look at the plan they've BEEN following for the last few years!! they couldnt out and out break the union's back, but they certainly wittled the fuk out of them!

bottom line...the 700bil is gonna be doled out...the financial industry will be getting most the chunk. obviosly most the folks hear believe that, thats the direction we need to go....i disagree. i dont know that gm CAN come out of a bankruptcy. it'll also kill alot of the venders...which, will be put onto the other manufactures, which will break their back, and so on, and so on, and so on...i find it difficult to believe that not many of you can follow the domino line and see where this is going!
i'm actually confussed.....how can i see this so wrong. how can i see that helping them WITH A LOAN is in everybody's best intrest...EVERYBODY'S!!! even fukin toyota would bennifit from it!!! you guys want to pay MORE into welfare to help these peole that get laid off...oh...maybe you dont think that'll happen, LMAO!! yea...obama's gonna have millions go unemployed on his watch and not nanny the fuk out of them!!! ok...i'm the dummy!
fe...i thaught i remember you were against a welfare state? klash, i know you are...how about a welfare country?? that better for ya? dont give them a dime (was asking for loan, NOT A GIFT), let them go under, fuk 'em...they made their bed, let them lie in it!! remember those words when your paying for their healthcare, mortgages, retraining/schooling, foodstamps, and all the other social programs you have decided you's rather back. coulda loan a couple bucks, but nooooo....your too smart for that, lol

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

another thing i just realized...klash, your usually WAAAAY better at putting together oposing arguments! you've made me rethink my opinions on shyt MANY times!! why the softballs now? are you just aurguing out of frustration and anger for the situation, or do you really think it'd be a bad idea to loan 25bil of the 700bil (that your paying out anyways) to help buy the big3 time until the new labor contracts kick in next spring and credit slacks up? i mean, seriously, your throwing softballs to me!! i can hit those out of the park all day!! please...tell me really why it's not a good idea?

It's not softballs man, it's like you said - the money has already been spent. The only argument now is who's pocket it is going to end up in. It's hard for me to take a pragmatic approach to this even though it's already done but to look at it pragmatically, how long will 25 billion last these guys? and how much of their soul will they have sold to the government. Will we all be in geo metro's in another decade?

well...shouldnt be, but is! and thats my point...they've made alot of the neccessary adjustments and fixes they needed to make to be proffitable. if it wasnt for this banking disastor, they wouldnt be nearly in the mess that they are in. ford was all set with money and on their way to the black by 2010. they had enough to carry them if it wasnt for a 40% drop in 9 mo's! 2010 is what...14mo's away? their plan is solid. this was an unessessary and unforseen bump in the road! they need the time!


it's ok to yell...i do it all the time, lol. the money's been set up bro. your out anyway. do you think it's sooo much of a better idea for the gov. to purchase bad mortgage debt? we're out the money anyways! like it or not, 700billion is being doled out! if it's being doled out, i'd rather see it go to save a nieghbors job then to buy his forclosed house and sell it for .20 on the doller! this is just better biz sence to me (says the guy thats lost 2 buisnesses, lol). on top of buying the bad debt, who do you think is gonna pay for unemployment? retraining? you'll also be happy to know you'll be paying more for your transportation in the future. less vendors, less manufacture's, less compition! either way your gonna pay, and pay, and pay!! HOW do you WANT to pay? do you want to help save millions of jobs? let these folks keep contributing to the economy? help prop up an american icon? or...do you want to pay more to the government so they can dole it out in unemployment, welfare and purchasing more bad motgage debt? do you want to lesson compition so the prices of future auto's are not being kept in check with compition. it aint a question of IF your gonna pay....it's how are you gonna pay!

How long is 25 billion going to last 3 mega corporations. Let's see that is 8 billion a piece. That will be gone within a quarter and then what? Let them file bankruptcy anyway? What's the point? Buying time until the economy is even worse and unemployment is even higher - then let them wade through it.

...or it's becouse you were probobly 12 at the time, lol. it was 1979 when the u.s. government bailed out chrysler. and yes, it was repaid....with intrest. that you dont remember, i'm not surprised, but that it happened is the truth! now....it made sence then, and it makes sence now.

Yeah, I know that....I was making a point!! It doesn't matter if they pay it back or not - it won't be sent back to the tax payers it will stay in Washington for some politicians to phuck around with.

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

fe...i thaught i remember you were against a welfare state? klash, i know you are...how about a welfare country?? that better for ya? dont give them a dime (was asking for loan, NOT A GIFT), let them go under, fuk 'em...they made their bed, let them lie in it!! remember those words when your paying for their healthcare, mortgages, retraining/schooling, foodstamps, and all the other social programs you have decided you's rather back. coulda loan a couple bucks, but nooooo....your too smart for that, lol

It doesn't matter.
You don't think these things will happen anyways - even if we do LOAN the big three 25 billion? There will be a big three loan shortly after Obama is inaugurated and then we will still be fighting not to do those other things.
The big three will get their loan - don't worry bro...It's guaranteed.

[3Vandoo]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Well guys I witnessed a dozen of business closing here because of the unions didnt want to do their part, so instead of representing let's say 500 people, now they represent no one

[Stout1]

Re: big 3 bailout...

china wants to buy the big 3 now