big 3 bailout...

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

make them file chapter 11 that is the only way...these factory car workers are making almost double what they should...the steel workers killed the us steel industry and the uaw killed the auto industry...that and greedy execs...f u k em all...i find it totally sick that a factory worker thinks they deserve that kind of money and benefits

[Waterboy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

OK, So you want to bailout the big 3. Seems when they flew to DC for the hearings this past week, they all flew on private G4 or G5 jets. When asked by Congreswhich one of these CEO's would make the concession of selling their private plane and flying back to Detroit in business class, no one was willing to even make that concession.
A Ford CEO said he didn't see nay need of making any concessions for being able to get the money, he liked things the way they are.
Sorry Daved150, I can't feel any sympathy for anyone that will not try to help themselves when they are suffering, but just expect us, the US taxpayer, to bend over backwards and give them what they want so they can continue on their merry spending, high rolling,large bonus, first class lifestyle.
And yes ,I do remember when they made the concessions earlier, but this now falls under totaly different circumstances.
You can not keep throwing more money at a problem if they are not willing to help themselves. There is nothing wrong with them filling Chapter 11 banckrupcy. Thay can reorganize and restructure their business plan and help themselves.

[firstenrgy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

?....they have none? you havnt really looked into this much, have ya bro? your sorce of info is from the hearings? contracts with unions have been re-negotiated (as i've stated over and over that you must have not read). the average hrly cost from total expense per car has been slashed from 71$ an hr to 23$ per hr!! how is that NOT solid!! toyota pays more than that!! you sound like one of those alabama congresmen that think it's 1980 still!! "they aught ta put sum of them cd players in them gas guzzlers, like them foriegn boy's do!!" wake up old man!! look at the plan they've BEEN following for the last few years!! they couldnt out and out break the union's back, but they certainly wittled the fuk out of them!

No, I don't think YOU have looked into this. It is not only future obligations it is past one's (pensions, healthcare). Unless you enter into chapter 11 those will never change and even if the union would SAY they agree to $1 per hour, they could renage as soon as the money is given. If they had such a deal and I guess you know more than Exec's from the companies do , they would be able to turn a profit . Please don't tell someone that they don't know what they are talking about when you do not seem to realize the complexity of pensions, minimun annuities to gaurantee those pensions, healthcare... Your suggestion is to put CD players in the vehicles... Your right, plroblem solved

[SMILEY FACE]

Re: big 3 bailout...

i def say NOOOOOOOOO but in reality they will get the bail out.... but the $25billion is not enough and they will go through it in no time....Again 3.3 million will be out of jobs and that is bad....
THAT CALLED 20 YEARS OF OLD MAN GREED WHAT GOT US INTO THIS SITUATION ...
United state is a big mess now and its affecting the entire world so i dunno how we are going to pull this one out..i would like to see actions and enough talking i can do this and that.
I mean 2day one of my customer at my bank came in to see me and she works for a company as a part time and said: 100 people got laid off 2day(all of them are full timer) and the part timer stayed.
i feel bad for people who cant afford their payment for the house and no insurance and loosing everything that they worked for.
heck my ****ing 401 has dropped big time and i work for a bank and im lost....

i think if Chine buys the big 3, i think we are screwed big time..They would control everything.

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

DAMN GLAD TO SEE YA DJ!!!! wished you'd come around more often...just aint the same without you here!!!


another thing klash, (yea..i know. once i sink my teeth into something....could you imagine running into me on a car lot!! i dont quit till i make the sale, lol), you even admitted the money (700bil) is out there anyway....so is it just a personal vendetta against the auto manufacture's? why does it matter to you who gets it. your whole thing is your against the fact that ANYONE getting it...but...it's getting given out anyway, so why not? why'd you feel you had to come out against it going to demestic manufactures specificly?

Just wait bro. After this is done, the government will be increasingly regulating the big three's budget and agenda but since Harry Reid and Pelosi are such good advocates of balanced budgets, talented mechanical engineers and understand supply and demand - I'm sure there is nothing to worry about. bump this in February!!

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

We should bail them out, and the heads of the company should have to take dramatic pay cuts, as well as give up the majority of their luxuries like private jets etc.

If we don't bail them out, the repurcussions on the job market will be devastating, and the economy will get MUCH worse.

Gas prices are what devastated the auto market, as it did to most other markets. Now that the damage is done, the oil prices are dropping dramatically, but it's too late...the damage is already done.

DAMN GLAD TO SEE YA DJ!!!! wished you'd come around more often...just aint the same without you here!!!


another thing klash, (yea..i know. once i sink my teeth into something....could you imagine running into me on a car lot!! i dont quit till i make the sale, lol), you even admitted the money (700bil) is out there anyway....so is it just a personal vendetta against the auto manufacture's? why does it matter to you who gets it. your whole thing is your against the fact that ANYONE getting it...but...it's getting given out anyway, so why not? why'd you feel you had to come out against it going to demestic manufactures specificly?

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

u go dj,

finally someone that understands majority of our problems, gas prices

avg. family lives pay check to paycheck

and one person uses 20 gallons of gas a week, when it went from 2 too 4 bucks, that was an extra 80 a week, approx. 5k a year folks did not have

not too mention, most companies could no longer budget anything worth a damn, how could u when costs are thru roof

Re: big 3 bailout...

We should bail them out, and the heads of the company should have to take dramatic pay cuts, as well as give up the majority of their luxuries like private jets etc.

If we don't bail them out, the repurcussions on the job market will be devastating, and the economy will get MUCH worse.

Gas prices are what devastated the auto market, as it did to most other markets. Now that the damage is done, the oil prices are dropping dramatically, but it's too late...the damage is already done.

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

fwiw,

The unions have lawyers and accountants, they negotiated there perks based on what the CEO's and the board members were making.

As long as there was money the ceo's gave em what they wanted.

Then when the CEO's realized they could not pay more, they started offereing perks when perks were cheap, and when the companies got caught with huge rises in medical costs they were stuck.

So, what did they do, they complained and stopped giving into the unions, yet, they themselves paid themselves handsomely and gave themselves huge bonus's and stock options, even when they were losing market share and losing money for years.

This royally po'd the unions, and a decade passed where they were at great odds with each other.

And along comes a huge problem, and all the wrongs of 20 years have left them in deep doo doo.

IMHO, all of this lies at the feet of the ceo's, at GM there have been 6 in the last 20 years, each with own vision idea wants etc. and each fighting the union in there own way.

The last twenty years while the competition have perfected there craft and built there brands, they have been fighting one another like divorced parents

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

look at that.....i figured that shyt out^^^...I GOT THE BLUE BOX THING GOING ON NOW!!! YOU FUKERS ARE IN TROUBLE NOW!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



(actually i didnt figure shyt out...horse turned me on to that little trick...y'all thaught you could hide that shyt from me forever, but my boy hooked me up!!!)

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It's not softballs man, it's like you said - the money has already been spent. The only argument now is who's pocket it is going to end up in. It's hard for me to take a pragmatic approach to this even though it's already done but to look at it pragmatically, how long will 25 billion last these guys? and how much of their soul will they have sold to the government. Will we all be in geo metro's in another decade?

atleast until the concestions with the uaw takes effect and the overall cost to build per unit goes from 71$ per hr, per car, to 23$ per hr per car!!! thats a big fukin drop bro!!! thats all it'll take! (if we dont do this, they may go the way of the geo!! which will leave your silly a$$ in a hyundi.....a $40k hyundi!!!....5speed!!!....HATCHBACK!!!...NO AIR!!!.lol)







[qoute=klash;874400]How long is 25 billion going to last 3 mega corporations. Let's see that is 8 billion a piece. That will be gone within a quarter and then what? Let them file bankruptcy anyway? What's the point? Buying time until the economy is even worse and unemployment is even higher - then let them wade through it.[/quote]

uummmm..yea...see above. it still apply's!!

Yeah, I know that....I was making a point!! It doesn't matter if they pay it back or not - it won't be sent back to the tax payers it will stay in Washington for some politicians to phuck around with.

yea...well. it was paid back! i send in my mortgage payment every month and if the ceo put's it in his pocket instead of dividing it up with the share holders, does that mean my credits bad??!! that line of thaught dont make sence bro. they paid it back. what the government did with it aint their fault!

[Stout1]

Re: big 3 bailout...

china wants to buy the big 3 now

[3Vandoo]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Well guys I witnessed a dozen of business closing here because of the unions didnt want to do their part, so instead of representing let's say 500 people, now they represent no one

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

fe...i thaught i remember you were against a welfare state? klash, i know you are...how about a welfare country?? that better for ya? dont give them a dime (was asking for loan, NOT A GIFT), let them go under, fuk 'em...they made their bed, let them lie in it!! remember those words when your paying for their healthcare, mortgages, retraining/schooling, foodstamps, and all the other social programs you have decided you's rather back. coulda loan a couple bucks, but nooooo....your too smart for that, lol

It doesn't matter.
You don't think these things will happen anyways - even if we do LOAN the big three 25 billion? There will be a big three loan shortly after Obama is inaugurated and then we will still be fighting not to do those other things.
The big three will get their loan - don't worry bro...It's guaranteed.

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

another thing i just realized...klash, your usually WAAAAY better at putting together oposing arguments! you've made me rethink my opinions on shyt MANY times!! why the softballs now? are you just aurguing out of frustration and anger for the situation, or do you really think it'd be a bad idea to loan 25bil of the 700bil (that your paying out anyways) to help buy the big3 time until the new labor contracts kick in next spring and credit slacks up? i mean, seriously, your throwing softballs to me!! i can hit those out of the park all day!! please...tell me really why it's not a good idea?

It's not softballs man, it's like you said - the money has already been spent. The only argument now is who's pocket it is going to end up in. It's hard for me to take a pragmatic approach to this even though it's already done but to look at it pragmatically, how long will 25 billion last these guys? and how much of their soul will they have sold to the government. Will we all be in geo metro's in another decade?

well...shouldnt be, but is! and thats my point...they've made alot of the neccessary adjustments and fixes they needed to make to be proffitable. if it wasnt for this banking disastor, they wouldnt be nearly in the mess that they are in. ford was all set with money and on their way to the black by 2010. they had enough to carry them if it wasnt for a 40% drop in 9 mo's! 2010 is what...14mo's away? their plan is solid. this was an unessessary and unforseen bump in the road! they need the time!


it's ok to yell...i do it all the time, lol. the money's been set up bro. your out anyway. do you think it's sooo much of a better idea for the gov. to purchase bad mortgage debt? we're out the money anyways! like it or not, 700billion is being doled out! if it's being doled out, i'd rather see it go to save a nieghbors job then to buy his forclosed house and sell it for .20 on the doller! this is just better biz sence to me (says the guy thats lost 2 buisnesses, lol). on top of buying the bad debt, who do you think is gonna pay for unemployment? retraining? you'll also be happy to know you'll be paying more for your transportation in the future. less vendors, less manufacture's, less compition! either way your gonna pay, and pay, and pay!! HOW do you WANT to pay? do you want to help save millions of jobs? let these folks keep contributing to the economy? help prop up an american icon? or...do you want to pay more to the government so they can dole it out in unemployment, welfare and purchasing more bad motgage debt? do you want to lesson compition so the prices of future auto's are not being kept in check with compition. it aint a question of IF your gonna pay....it's how are you gonna pay!

How long is 25 billion going to last 3 mega corporations. Let's see that is 8 billion a piece. That will be gone within a quarter and then what? Let them file bankruptcy anyway? What's the point? Buying time until the economy is even worse and unemployment is even higher - then let them wade through it.

...or it's becouse you were probobly 12 at the time, lol. it was 1979 when the u.s. government bailed out chrysler. and yes, it was repaid....with intrest. that you dont remember, i'm not surprised, but that it happened is the truth! now....it made sence then, and it makes sence now.

Yeah, I know that....I was making a point!! It doesn't matter if they pay it back or not - it won't be sent back to the tax payers it will stay in Washington for some politicians to phuck around with.