big 3 bailout...

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It's not softballs man, it's like you said - the money has already been spent. The only argument now is who's pocket it is going to end up in. It's hard for me to take a pragmatic approach to this even though it's already done but to look at it pragmatically, how long will 25 billion last these guys? and how much of their soul will they have sold to the government. Will we all be in geo metro's in another decade?

atleast until the concestions with the uaw takes effect and the overall cost to build per unit goes from 71$ per hr, per car, to 23$ per hr per car!!! thats a big fukin drop bro!!! thats all it'll take! (if we dont do this, they may go the way of the geo!! which will leave your silly a$$ in a hyundi.....a $40k hyundi!!!....5speed!!!....HATCHBACK!!!...NO AIR!!!.lol)







[qoute=klash;874400]How long is 25 billion going to last 3 mega corporations. Let's see that is 8 billion a piece. That will be gone within a quarter and then what? Let them file bankruptcy anyway? What's the point? Buying time until the economy is even worse and unemployment is even higher - then let them wade through it.[/quote]

uummmm..yea...see above. it still apply's!!

Yeah, I know that....I was making a point!! It doesn't matter if they pay it back or not - it won't be sent back to the tax payers it will stay in Washington for some politicians to phuck around with.

yea...well. it was paid back! i send in my mortgage payment every month and if the ceo put's it in his pocket instead of dividing it up with the share holders, does that mean my credits bad??!! that line of thaught dont make sence bro. they paid it back. what the government did with it aint their fault!

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

look at that.....i figured that shyt out^^^...I GOT THE BLUE BOX THING GOING ON NOW!!! YOU FUKERS ARE IN TROUBLE NOW!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



(actually i didnt figure shyt out...horse turned me on to that little trick...y'all thaught you could hide that shyt from me forever, but my boy hooked me up!!!)

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

fwiw,

The unions have lawyers and accountants, they negotiated there perks based on what the CEO's and the board members were making.

As long as there was money the ceo's gave em what they wanted.

Then when the CEO's realized they could not pay more, they started offereing perks when perks were cheap, and when the companies got caught with huge rises in medical costs they were stuck.

So, what did they do, they complained and stopped giving into the unions, yet, they themselves paid themselves handsomely and gave themselves huge bonus's and stock options, even when they were losing market share and losing money for years.

This royally po'd the unions, and a decade passed where they were at great odds with each other.

And along comes a huge problem, and all the wrongs of 20 years have left them in deep doo doo.

IMHO, all of this lies at the feet of the ceo's, at GM there have been 6 in the last 20 years, each with own vision idea wants etc. and each fighting the union in there own way.

The last twenty years while the competition have perfected there craft and built there brands, they have been fighting one another like divorced parents

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: big 3 bailout...

We should bail them out, and the heads of the company should have to take dramatic pay cuts, as well as give up the majority of their luxuries like private jets etc.

If we don't bail them out, the repurcussions on the job market will be devastating, and the economy will get MUCH worse.

Gas prices are what devastated the auto market, as it did to most other markets. Now that the damage is done, the oil prices are dropping dramatically, but it's too late...the damage is already done.

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

u go dj,

finally someone that understands majority of our problems, gas prices

avg. family lives pay check to paycheck

and one person uses 20 gallons of gas a week, when it went from 2 too 4 bucks, that was an extra 80 a week, approx. 5k a year folks did not have

not too mention, most companies could no longer budget anything worth a damn, how could u when costs are thru roof

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

We should bail them out, and the heads of the company should have to take dramatic pay cuts, as well as give up the majority of their luxuries like private jets etc.

If we don't bail them out, the repurcussions on the job market will be devastating, and the economy will get MUCH worse.

Gas prices are what devastated the auto market, as it did to most other markets. Now that the damage is done, the oil prices are dropping dramatically, but it's too late...the damage is already done.

DAMN GLAD TO SEE YA DJ!!!! wished you'd come around more often...just aint the same without you here!!!


another thing klash, (yea..i know. once i sink my teeth into something....could you imagine running into me on a car lot!! i dont quit till i make the sale, lol), you even admitted the money (700bil) is out there anyway....so is it just a personal vendetta against the auto manufacture's? why does it matter to you who gets it. your whole thing is your against the fact that ANYONE getting it...but...it's getting given out anyway, so why not? why'd you feel you had to come out against it going to demestic manufactures specificly?

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

DAMN GLAD TO SEE YA DJ!!!! wished you'd come around more often...just aint the same without you here!!!


another thing klash, (yea..i know. once i sink my teeth into something....could you imagine running into me on a car lot!! i dont quit till i make the sale, lol), you even admitted the money (700bil) is out there anyway....so is it just a personal vendetta against the auto manufacture's? why does it matter to you who gets it. your whole thing is your against the fact that ANYONE getting it...but...it's getting given out anyway, so why not? why'd you feel you had to come out against it going to demestic manufactures specificly?

Just wait bro. After this is done, the government will be increasingly regulating the big three's budget and agenda but since Harry Reid and Pelosi are such good advocates of balanced budgets, talented mechanical engineers and understand supply and demand - I'm sure there is nothing to worry about. bump this in February!!

[SMILEY FACE]

Re: big 3 bailout...

i def say NOOOOOOOOO but in reality they will get the bail out.... but the $25billion is not enough and they will go through it in no time....Again 3.3 million will be out of jobs and that is bad....
THAT CALLED 20 YEARS OF OLD MAN GREED WHAT GOT US INTO THIS SITUATION ...
United state is a big mess now and its affecting the entire world so i dunno how we are going to pull this one out..i would like to see actions and enough talking i can do this and that.
I mean 2day one of my customer at my bank came in to see me and she works for a company as a part time and said: 100 people got laid off 2day(all of them are full timer) and the part timer stayed.
i feel bad for people who cant afford their payment for the house and no insurance and loosing everything that they worked for.
heck my ****ing 401 has dropped big time and i work for a bank and im lost....

i think if Chine buys the big 3, i think we are screwed big time..They would control everything.

[firstenrgy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

?....they have none? you havnt really looked into this much, have ya bro? your sorce of info is from the hearings? contracts with unions have been re-negotiated (as i've stated over and over that you must have not read). the average hrly cost from total expense per car has been slashed from 71$ an hr to 23$ per hr!! how is that NOT solid!! toyota pays more than that!! you sound like one of those alabama congresmen that think it's 1980 still!! "they aught ta put sum of them cd players in them gas guzzlers, like them foriegn boy's do!!" wake up old man!! look at the plan they've BEEN following for the last few years!! they couldnt out and out break the union's back, but they certainly wittled the fuk out of them!

No, I don't think YOU have looked into this. It is not only future obligations it is past one's (pensions, healthcare). Unless you enter into chapter 11 those will never change and even if the union would SAY they agree to $1 per hour, they could renage as soon as the money is given. If they had such a deal and I guess you know more than Exec's from the companies do , they would be able to turn a profit . Please don't tell someone that they don't know what they are talking about when you do not seem to realize the complexity of pensions, minimun annuities to gaurantee those pensions, healthcare... Your suggestion is to put CD players in the vehicles... Your right, plroblem solved

[Waterboy]

Re: big 3 bailout...

OK, So you want to bailout the big 3. Seems when they flew to DC for the hearings this past week, they all flew on private G4 or G5 jets. When asked by Congreswhich one of these CEO's would make the concession of selling their private plane and flying back to Detroit in business class, no one was willing to even make that concession.
A Ford CEO said he didn't see nay need of making any concessions for being able to get the money, he liked things the way they are.
Sorry Daved150, I can't feel any sympathy for anyone that will not try to help themselves when they are suffering, but just expect us, the US taxpayer, to bend over backwards and give them what they want so they can continue on their merry spending, high rolling,large bonus, first class lifestyle.
And yes ,I do remember when they made the concessions earlier, but this now falls under totaly different circumstances.
You can not keep throwing more money at a problem if they are not willing to help themselves. There is nothing wrong with them filling Chapter 11 banckrupcy. Thay can reorganize and restructure their business plan and help themselves.

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

make them file chapter 11 that is the only way...these factory car workers are making almost double what they should...the steel workers killed the us steel industry and the uaw killed the auto industry...that and greedy execs...f u k em all...i find it totally sick that a factory worker thinks they deserve that kind of money and benefits

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

guys it's all basic math

worlwide 150 barrell of oil crushed us all

the increase cost the avg family 5k more a year, hmmmmmm, that's a new car payment, that's the difference between making mortgage or not

china is f'd, china mfg is built on us of a consumer demand, that has dropped off a cliff, now they have mfg plants sitting idle, and they have to pay the monthly nut

hell, we might be all turning japanese, they are the only ones with cash

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

guys it's all basic math

worlwide 150 barrell of oil crushed us all

the increase cost the avg family 5k more a year, hmmmmmm, that's a new car payment, that's the difference between making mortgage or not

china is f'd, china mfg is built on us of a consumer demand, that has dropped off a cliff, now they have mfg plants sitting idle, and they have to pay the monthly nut

hell, we might be all turning japanese, they are the only ones with cash

for now!! thats slipping away too!
fuk it...you can buy some people a book, but you cant make them read. it's no wonder this country's fuked up. i'm no union fan (it mat appear otherwise, but i'm not)...i'm in a union state that wont stop being a union state. i'm not trying to stick up for their practices, but i know the concession made, while not being all thats needs to be made, are big ones! most have started. some more in 09, and 2010...but whatever. bottom line....keep buying foriegn cars and whine about what happens next, later!
"chapter 11!!!", "chapter 11", thats all people want to say. are you all gonna run out and do your part and purchase a vehicle from a bankrupt auto manufacture???!! yea...ok...your realistic.

[horsepwr]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It couldn't look any better to the government. I guarantee they love it. Why do you think they passed that 700bil before you could blink. They want a nanny state. and when I say "nanny state" dave, I don't mean state as in MI. "state" is used as in condition of. People gripe about "oh no, socialism" and "becoming a nanny state." uhh, we're there. and the government is loving it. Their about to nationalize the auto industry too. Ya think any foreign makes that manufacture in the U.S. will get some?..with the government we have??? Sit back and enjoy your new owners. They sell it on the premise of all this job security and savings, but there will be no way to tell just how much it actually will secure. Will less get laid off? but then again, there will be no way to tell what "less" is.
It is something to see how people feel about handing out government money. I'm against it. I'm against them taking it. I'm against us relying on other countries for oil. This thread would've never been written if we used our own resources...and sold them too. could you imagine. But back to the "bailout" thing. So many folks are against it...until the government looks their way with cash in hand. Hell, I bet any one of us would happily take back what we've given. If even only a portion, like the auto industry will be receiving.

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

hp,

It's all about saving the banks, plain and simple.

The banks were broken, and no one would lend or send payments to one another cause they were all afraid they would wake up tommorrow and the bank would be gone, and then that would cause a domino effect.

Then u would in fact have world wide depression and job losses in the 25-30% range, hperinflation like zimbabwe