big 3 bailout...

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

well, the fact is we know everyone drives, and every business needs energy

the fact is we do not know who bought more home than they could afford, yes, sub-prime was a mess, yet, that came from low interest rates, and arms

it's a multiplier effect, the upper middle class has the extra money but they don't go out for a nice meal, middle class, can't buy that couch or fridge, lower is screwed

companies have too re-adjust there budgets, cause no one knows what would happen, thus they cut capital expenditures, laid off marginal workers, etc.

[Stout1]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Why can other companies turn a profit?

<H1>Honda opens new U.S. plant as Detroit seeks bailout

Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:50pm EST

By Andrea Hopkins

GREENSBURG, Indiana (Reuters) - The rest of the country may have been debating the possible bankruptcy of America's iconic automakers on Monday, but in southeast Indiana more than 1,000 U.S. workers were cheering the opening of Honda's newest assembly plant.

As a shiny Honda Civic sedan rolled up beside Indiana's governor and Honda's president, Greensburg Mayor Gary Herbert posed a question designed to remind Americans that the U.S. auto industry extends beyond Detroit.

"Is this Civic an American-built automobile?" Herbert thundered, smiling at a sea of white-suited workers who seemed very pleased to have landed high-paying jobs in an industry where layoffs are common.

"Yes," came the shouted reply from hundreds of voices.

The rise of Honda's mammoth new car plant in America's farming heartland is a stark contrast to the layoffs and plant closings announced in recent months by General Motors Corp, Ford Motor Co and Chrysler LLC.

But for the Honda workers here, their jobs -- with a starting wage of $18.41 an hour -- are just as much part of the U.S. auto industry as those at their imperiled Detroit competitors. They just don't get as noticed.

"GM has laid off and cut back how many people and Honda is building a plant. What is Honda doing right? Maybe they should look at this model and learn something instead of getting a bailout," shrugged new Honda worker Larry Giles, 41.

According to 2007 figures compiled by the Center for Automotive Research, foreign automakers including Honda, Toyota and Nissan employed some 113,000 workers in the United States, about half of the 239,000 employed by Detroit's Big Three.

Like much of the country, Honda workers in Indiana have been watching the debate over the proposed $25 billion rescue plan of GM, Ford and Chrysler with mounting frustration.

OPPOSED TO BAILOUT

"I don't think they should be bailed out at all," said paint shop worker Tony Mitchell, 38. Hired by Honda in July after being laid off from his job at an American faucet-maker, Mitchell said his job was "a dream come true." And he doesn't like the precedent set by a bailout of Honda's competitors.

"It says that if you get in another bind three years down the road someone is going to bail you out again," he said.

Officially, Honda is far more circumspect about prospects for an industry rescue plan.
"Honda would support measures that would maintain the stability and viability of the auto industry," Honda spokesman Jeffrey Smith said in an interview, noting that parts suppliers were heavily integrated throughout the industry.

That the so-called foreign "transplants" are keeping their heads down as Congress debates the future of their

</H1>

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Trip is right about one thing, this is all about banks trusting each other (confidence) but why is confidence so critical in our system? Because we are on a central banking system, which has a monopoly on our fiat currency which is backed only by our faith and trust that our currency has worth. With the government not only supporting that lending institutions make risky loans but forcing them to by pushing government agencies to loosen credit criteria in the name of "community reinvestment" we thenn had a big money supply, a big credit supply and lose credit criteria by lending institutions (all manipulated by the government) and gradually reality starts to set in last spring. The subprime real estate loans were only the catalyst that lifted the veil of delusion.

The government has artificially expanded our fiat money supply and credit for so long that the central banking system is too small to fix the economy - there tools are insignificant for the problem, they cannot offer enough to provide confidence. So now government is going to try and offer confidence by guaranteeing inter bank trading by offering more printed paper but banks will still go under. We will experience hyper inflation and we will all feel it anyway, despite what happens to the big three, - so I think your concern for saving the big three is misguided. Your just more on the front lines of an industry that will be the first to feel the pain and you are seeing what most of us will see in a few months. It's time to pay the piper and government can't stop that but ironically they will try to use more of what caused the problem to stop it - government intervention. Oh, it's time to take my Xanax!!!

i agree with what your saying, but misguided concern? it's silly to be concerned with the big3 going under? seriously? you just said that? i guess i'm just a silly fuker that way bro...
your right about one thing...i'm at the front line for the biginning...after they go down, it'll run it's course through the rest of the nation! look up the statistics on flint michigan if you want to see a SAMPLE of whats gonna happen. check em out 30 years ago and check em out now...
yep...i'm a silly fuker i am. lol
...also, you watch what happens next*. with the banks using THEIR bailout money to buy other banks and NOt loosen the purse strings on lending, as intended, they ( the gov) is gonna step in again! they will FORCE them to lend again...get ready for a new round of regulations the you've only dreamed of (or had nightmares of)


*ofcourse...this is posted by a miguided concerned silly fuker, so i could be wrong

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It's the American dream to be in debt.

...and the federal government promoting it with artificially low interest rates, community reinvestment acts and if there is a problem just print more money but keep promoting debt and spending because saving - well that phucks everything up. Phucking government logic.

[Stout1]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It's the American dream to be in debt.

[FUZO]

Re: big 3 bailout...

Exactly pigmeat no way was it the oil. ghreedy fukin people who wanted more then they can chew,and now look where everyone is ate that took a big bite

[pigmeat]

Re: big 3 bailout...

sorry trip, but oil prices is not what caused any of this..not by a long shot...what caused this is not hard to see.....go into any city or suburb, and look at the houses that have been built in the last 10 years....way more than people need, andwaaaayyyy more than most people could afford. A family making 60k a year does not need, and certainly cant afford a 300k house..but thats what we wanted....has to have big fancy gables, vaulted ceilings, tile floor, block fence around house...what happened to the simple ranch style houses built in the 70's and 80's....oh, their friend who can afford one of them big fancy homes bought one, so now they need one....We all gambled that the market was going to stay strong and took interest only loans hoping to have enough equity to resale when the term on loan was up, and buy another....oil has nothing to do wit this...if we had built/bought, a 100k home instead, the xtra $2 at pump wouldnt have been nothing more than chicken feed

[Klash]

Re: big 3 bailout...

for now!! thats slipping away too!
fuk it...you can buy some people a book, but you cant make them read. it's no wonder this country's fuked up. i'm no union fan (it mat appear otherwise, but i'm not)...i'm in a union state that wont stop being a union state. i'm not trying to stick up for their practices, but i know the concession made, while not being all thats needs to be made, are big ones! most have started. some more in 09, and 2010...but whatever. bottom line....keep buying foriegn cars and whine about what happens next, later!
"chapter 11!!!", "chapter 11", thats all people want to say. are you all gonna run out and do your part and purchase a vehicle from a bankrupt auto manufacture???!! yea...ok...your realistic.

Trip is right about one thing, this is all about banks trusting each other (confidence) but why is confidence so critical in our system? Because we are on a central banking system, which has a monopoly on our fiat currency which is backed only by our faith and trust that our currency has worth. With the government not only supporting that lending institutions make risky loans but forcing them to by pushing government agencies to loosen credit criteria in the name of "community reinvestment" we thenn had a big money supply, a big credit supply and lose credit criteria by lending institutions (all manipulated by the government) and gradually reality starts to set in last spring. The subprime real estate loans were only the catalyst that lifted the veil of delusion.

The government has artificially expanded our fiat money supply and credit for so long that the central banking system is too small to fix the economy - there tools are insignificant for the problem, they cannot offer enough to provide confidence. So now government is going to try and offer confidence by guaranteeing inter bank trading by offering more printed paper but banks will still go under. We will experience hyper inflation and we will all feel it anyway, despite what happens to the big three, - so I think your concern for saving the big three is misguided. Your just more on the front lines of an industry that will be the first to feel the pain and you are seeing what most of us will see in a few months. It's time to pay the piper and government can't stop that but ironically they will try to use more of what caused the problem to stop it - government intervention. Oh, it's time to take my Xanax!!!

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

hp...i know what a nanny state is and what you were referring too. i guess, fuk it...we might as well not even try to help them with the loan. let the people find new work in another industry.. i'll be fine. they'll always be usedcars to sell, and if deepsouth can be smoked into buying a fullsize toyota pick up in the heart of texas, i guess i can switch over and tell people of all the many, many reasons to buy a good quality used foriegn auto!!!


deepsouth...you baught a toyota pick up. your in texas. you aint been to'd buy me!!! we'd get along just fine!!! i'd probobly be able to get that new kitchen my wife's been wanting. thank you.

3sweeties...i agree with you!!! i've said that before myself, but i think the recent oil prices were more market (stock market) driven. when people stopped buying the stock, the prices per barrell dropped and the price at the pump dropped

Re: big 3 bailout...

worlwide 150 barrell of oil crushed us all

I'm probably way off here, but I've always had the theory that the middle east probably couldn't take us militarily but they could screw with our economy.

Re: big 3 bailout...

....could you imagine running into me on a car lot!! i dont quit till i make the sale, lol),

This cracked me up Dave-LOL. I have purchased 18 vehicles in the last 15yrs. I didn't buy tags for years, but I have been TO'd many times at dealerships. Those guys that don't quit and stayed in my face while I was dealing-normally TO'd me because they wound up pissing me off.

Now as far as the bailout- you do make a good point about the Big 3, but this recession is going to last far longer than the money they are asking for- they will be back asking for more. When does it end??? I didn't agree with the first one and I don't with this one. As far as MPG- the Govt. should have any say in it- it should be consumer driven.

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

hp,

It's all about saving the banks, plain and simple.

The banks were broken, and no one would lend or send payments to one another cause they were all afraid they would wake up tommorrow and the bank would be gone, and then that would cause a domino effect.

Then u would in fact have world wide depression and job losses in the 25-30&#37; range, hperinflation like zimbabwe

[horsepwr]

Re: big 3 bailout...

It couldn't look any better to the government. I guarantee they love it. Why do you think they passed that 700bil before you could blink. They want a nanny state. and when I say "nanny state" dave, I don't mean state as in MI. "state" is used as in condition of. People gripe about "oh no, socialism" and "becoming a nanny state." uhh, we're there. and the government is loving it. Their about to nationalize the auto industry too. Ya think any foreign makes that manufacture in the U.S. will get some?..with the government we have??? Sit back and enjoy your new owners. They sell it on the premise of all this job security and savings, but there will be no way to tell just how much it actually will secure. Will less get laid off? but then again, there will be no way to tell what "less" is.
It is something to see how people feel about handing out government money. I'm against it. I'm against them taking it. I'm against us relying on other countries for oil. This thread would've never been written if we used our own resources...and sold them too. could you imagine. But back to the "bailout" thing. So many folks are against it...until the government looks their way with cash in hand. Hell, I bet any one of us would happily take back what we've given. If even only a portion, like the auto industry will be receiving.

[daved150]

Re: big 3 bailout...

guys it's all basic math

worlwide 150 barrell of oil crushed us all

the increase cost the avg family 5k more a year, hmmmmmm, that's a new car payment, that's the difference between making mortgage or not

china is f'd, china mfg is built on us of a consumer demand, that has dropped off a cliff, now they have mfg plants sitting idle, and they have to pay the monthly nut

hell, we might be all turning japanese, they are the only ones with cash

for now!! thats slipping away too!
fuk it...you can buy some people a book, but you cant make them read. it's no wonder this country's fuked up. i'm no union fan (it mat appear otherwise, but i'm not)...i'm in a union state that wont stop being a union state. i'm not trying to stick up for their practices, but i know the concession made, while not being all thats needs to be made, are big ones! most have started. some more in 09, and 2010...but whatever. bottom line....keep buying foriegn cars and whine about what happens next, later!
"chapter 11!!!", "chapter 11", thats all people want to say. are you all gonna run out and do your part and purchase a vehicle from a bankrupt auto manufacture???!! yea...ok...your realistic.

[trip]

Re: big 3 bailout...

guys it's all basic math

worlwide 150 barrell of oil crushed us all

the increase cost the avg family 5k more a year, hmmmmmm, that's a new car payment, that's the difference between making mortgage or not

china is f'd, china mfg is built on us of a consumer demand, that has dropped off a cliff, now they have mfg plants sitting idle, and they have to pay the monthly nut

hell, we might be all turning japanese, they are the only ones with cash