Obama voters

[Klash]

Re: Obama voters

i know we have lib party

it's a horrible name

change the name to freedom party

ask ten people what libetarian mean, 90% don't know or think bad

ask them freedom, they can dig it

it's a branding issue

that is true, hopefully with Ron Paul's success in his campaign - hopefully the term will become more recognizable.

i understand what u say on the other, imho, you need to identify where problems lie................

PROFESSIONAL POLITICIANS

why are all the repubs not running again, why do new guys leave

man, if you're there 20 years you learn how too game the system, not intentionally but that is the environment, new folks come in want to change things and become disgusted

hell, we'd be better off picking names out of a hate for 600 legislatures, pay for a 2 year course of learning for what they need to know, u pass the test u can get paid a million a year for ten years, then you are gone, retired

i'll take 600 free americans working together over any number of politicians

just cuase your a politician doesn't mean your are smart, know what to do, etc.

just means u put up with lotsa bull**** to get votes, that's there job to get votes, not think


don't worry, hears the whole history of the world in one word PROGRESS

not pretty on a daily basis, yet it works very well

The problem is false beliefs based on the subconscious acceptance of flawed premises. Citizens have been rewarding politicians for pragmatism for a long time but I think you are right when you marked the great depression as a pivot point towards the nanny state. People wanted their politicians to do something - it didn't matter if it was rational or not, or if it worked or not, they wanted the instant gratification that their leaders were doing something.

IMO, the solution is for people like Ron Paul to bring these issues to the national stage; make people defend their erroneous beliefs and get a national dialogue going. Make people aware of the contradictions in their beliefs.

[Rolsroyce]

Re: Obama voters

Well the US is a Christian built nation and no Muslim should ever be in the Oval office. Women either, women are not world leaders. Its a mans job. The US constitution is what we should be governing by but we have these folks in office that think they are there for themselves like they just won some great prize when they get elected. They are only there to serve the people of the country. I would like to hang all the ones that are self absorbed. I hope Ron Paul makes it.

[trip]

Re: Obama voters

u got it klash, people want to know they're doing something

so, new pol comes in, he wants to help, after ten years he begins to think, **** we waiste money like friggin air, no one cares, i might as well bring home some bacon and put some money too work in something worthwhile, get my university grant money, a bridge here, some money there, our piece of the waisteful pie

as time goes on he becomes more successful at getting stuff for his people, of course all the while more waiste is created and more and more

and then he's either voted out,stays or leaves

it's not one little helping hand, or at the times just seems like a finger of help it's thousands of fingers over decades and you have a mess that no one understands or cares about because it is such a mess, every time someone tries to clena it up they fail


the FLAWED PREMISE is that the politicians are bed, my premise is that they are good, want to do good, yet, over time most folks value systems change, example, i will never steal, yet, borrow of ream of paper from work is okay, hell everyone does

except in political washington dc terms, it's not a ream of paper it's a 20 million dollar grant

in your office if everyone took reams of paper all the time cause no one paid attention to it, eventually you'd have a cash crisis cause your cost of paper would be greater than whatever over time

you have to have boundries and limits that can not be broken, ie, the reason why we have a constitution, it says the line is right friggin here, don't cross it or die a slow death


your solution is obama's believe system, obama is surrounding himself with THE BEST MINDS OF OUR GENERATION, and what THEY WILL DO is make the erroneious belief systems groups defend them, if they cannot, we will follow the best idea's for the best long term success, not the immediate needs

one of the items that baram wants to bring to light is the plight of the lower middle class, u see 50 years ago there was a clear path to go from lower class too middle, get a factory job for life, pay is decent, yet very consistent and over time you will do well for u and your family

now those jobs are not there for that path, what path does the lower class have, we have to change, like u say subconcious believes on a new winning path, the only way that path can be clear if we all as a nation understand it focus on it, and remind each other that is the road too success


US is not a christian built nation, it is a FREEDOM BUILT NATION by individuals who at the time had a strong christian value system commensuarte with the times of there generation

that's a huge difference



oh, the term will not become more recognizable to any degree for great success, again, it is a branding issue

confusing words create confusing ideas which people move away from not towards

again, change the name now versus until it's too late

if you ask folks what a democrate of repulican believes 70% of folks are totally unsure, yet, they have a best guess that is there believe system

if we had a freedom party there best guess will always be written in ston, we stand for freedom, make decision based on freedom, our own not others

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama voters

I dig the 'Freedom Party' much better. You're right. I bet the word Libertarian does throw people for the wrong loop. I would hope though, after this Ron Paul campaign shining light on Libertarianism, that folks who pay attention and read-up more than anything, have a clear understanding that it has nothing to do with what probably popped into their mind when they hear the term and that it does have everything to do with what they stand for and want our government to stand for. And, there is one side that should be all over the Libertarian ideals and the other side that is sadly scared to death of the Freedom/Libertarian stance and just wishes the whole idea away for obvious reasons. But, with knowledge, I would think that most everyone has a dog in the fight for true Freedom, or maybe a very important self interest that's extreme enough to sway them. Everyone should want what would come of a Libertarian state. Everyone should have an interest in, and benefit from the Libertarianist ideal.

Great points on "corrupt" politicians. Poeple that get perks from their job should be able to relate to your explanation. How many average joes out there have a company gas card and top the family car off every now and then. Then just as you stated trip, take it to a top government official level and the perks get really nice. There is that line though that I would imagine gets crossed more than not.

[trip]

Re: Obama voters

thanks for your comments horsepower


yup, it get's crossed cause everyone crosses it, and after awhile, u believe it not has been crossed, that it is the right way

it's one of the things i like about mccain, he has a line in the sand for most things

[Klash]

Re: Obama voters

it's one of the things i like about mccain, he has a line in the sand for most things

Oh yeah, you mean like the line in the sand where he believes government shouldn't interject authority into private enterprises; wait - he wants congress to oversee Major league baseball.

You mean like the line in the sand where he believes government should protect individual freedoms; wait - he co-sponsored a bill that banned andro and supported the ban on ephedra, implying government ownership of its citizens.

You mean like the line in the sand where he believes government should protect freedom of speech; wait - he co-sponsored McCain/Fiengold, which infringes freedom of speech.

So you must be talking about the line in the sand of how he is more tolerant of illegal aliens breaking the law with McCain/Kennedy, while there aren't enough laws to force onto the American citizen.

O.k., I'm being facetious.

[daved150]

Re: Obama voters

Oh yeah, you mean like the line in the sand where he believes government shouldn't interject authority into private enterprises; wait - he wants congress to oversee Major league baseball.

You mean like the line in the sand where he believes government should protect individual freedoms; wait - he co-sponsored a bill that banned andro and supported the ban on ephedra, implying government ownership of its citizens.

You mean like the line in the sand where he believes government should protect freedom of speech; wait - he co-sponsored McCain/Fiengold, which infringes freedom of speech.

So you must be talking about the line in the sand of how he is more tolerant of illegal aliens breaking the law with McCain/Kennedy, while there aren't enough laws to force onto the American citizen.

O.k., I'm being facetious.

NOOOO, stop it....you are not!!!

yea, that the line he was refering too! atleast you know where the guy stands! (note: i hate all these fukers...they all need to be kicked to the curb and pick new ones!) do you know obama's policie's on any of the above mentioned items? who would you vote for if it came down to the 2...the devil you know or the devil you dont! (note: the term "devil" is not an indication that i believe you think there is or is not a devil, it was mearly an expession that has been used in the past, ty)

[supasaiyan99]

Re: Obama voters

They spoke to a few Obama voters in South Carolina this morning. One woman said she's voting for Obama because he's black. Another woman said she's voting Obama because he said he wants to bring the troops home and she knows some families that have family members over in Iraq and they want them home, so that's why she's voting for him.
Very witty bunch, those Obama supporters seem to be.

Well there are people who won't vote for none of the candidates because of race, gender or religion. There are ignorant people on both sides of the isle so what was your point of bringing up that one example?

Also check snopes.com. Obama is not a Muslim. That bogus e-mail about him not saying the pledge is BS! He attends a Christian church in Chicago.

[trip]

Re: Obama voters

klash, lol

did some checking up on him

i got another post about him

i did not realize why the ultra conservatives were so mad, so i did some checking, he's a nut job

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama voters

Well there are people who won't vote for none of the candidates because of race, gender or religion. There are ignorant people on both sides of the isle so what was your point of bringing up that one example?

Also check snopes.com. Obama is not a Muslim. That bogus e-mail about him not saying the pledge is BS! He attends a Christian church in Chicago.

I haven't heard one person say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black.

Yes, he claims to be a Christian and attended a church in Chicago that has some shady history. It is also fact that Barack Hussein Obama was brought up in a muslim environment and raised in Indonesia which instilled his strong muslim values. He was raised with, and holds dear, the same beliefs as extremists terrorists muslims! That is another fact! It is also fact that he doesn't cross his heart for the American flag. He turns his back to it. He won't wear an American flag pin! Muslims won't. And of coarse he won't own his muslim heritage and claim it at the podium right now. He wouldn't be as electable if he spilled that truth. It doesn't take a genius to know it's there though.
Then there's the issue with his positions and political experience. He is a wonderful speaker and communicates like no other. If that's all you need, you should be more than content with him.

[trip]

Re: Obama voters

so what are muslim values do u not like???

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama voters

so what are muslim values do u not like???

An easier and shorter answer would be what muslim beliefs I think are reasonable.
I'm not a huge supporter of religion or the argument of whose religion is more reasonable and correct, or which religion is better than this one or that one to begin with. I'm not a big fan of religion period. Now, throw muslim extremism in there and there isn't anything pretty about it from my experience and what little I know about it.

[trip]

Re: Obama voters

i'm not a religion guy either, i think last count we had about 10,000 in the world

all extremism is bad, it allows no free thought, remember at one time it was herasay to believe anything but the fact the world was flat, and ever planet revolved around us

muslim extremism, just goes back to 3rd world country believes, where people are assets, so it's same bs over and over, if others believe something different than extremists, they lose followers, who provide all forms of money, food, whatever

not big on others controlling others

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama voters

I'm with ya. A truly religious man should indeed be extreme in his beliefs though for that's what most religion dictates. And I realize that reasonable is a relative term, but right and wrong is real. There is clearly a correct way and clearly an incorrect way.
Islam and the Koran controls Muslims in a cult like extremist way that's unreasonable and wrong.

[supasaiyan99]

Re: Obama voters

I haven't heard one person say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black.

Yes, he claims to be a Christian and attended a church in Chicago that has some shady history. It is also fact that Barack Hussein Obama was brought up in a muslim environment and raised in Indonesia which instilled his strong muslim values. He was raised with, and holds dear, the same beliefs as extremists terrorists muslims! That is another fact! It is also fact that he doesn't cross his heart for the American flag. He turns his back to it. He won't wear an American flag pin! Muslims won't. And of coarse he won't own his muslim heritage and claim it at the podium right now. He wouldn't be as electable if he spilled that truth. It doesn't take a genius to know it's there though.
Then there's the issue with his positions and political experience. He is a wonderful speaker and communicates like no other. If that's all you need, you should be more than content with him.

You mean you haven't heard someone say it out loud.

So what if the man went to a Muslim school in Indonesia. That was over 40 yrs ago. I went to a Catholic elementary school 20 yrs ago, does that mean I am Catholic and follow the Catholic theology? I don't put my hand over my heart during the pledge. The only time I was forced to do it was when I became a US Citizen and getting sworn in. It doesn't mean I hate America. And who said I was even for Obama?