To you +20 weeks "on" guys...

[maximus_pecs]

No DR there not dead. I know of 4 people personally(and read of many more) that have been on 20+ weeks at low doses roughly 400mg test week while cycling in Fina and EQ or winny for 6 week stints. They came off and their natural test levels recovered and they kept there gains.

DR_Diabolocal- If you seriously think that it will result in death please list medical reaons. I'm not talking about cycles of 1G of test stacked with DBOL and winny for 19 weeks. I have not read a single article about taking mild non 17aa steroids(ie Test, EQ) in mild doses for extended periods cauing major problems as long as proper precations are taken such as regular check ups and proper dieting. Please rememer that there are people on HRT that take roughly 200mg of test a week for years. Of course there always is the issue of your natural test not returning or sterility but those aren't going to kill you.

I was just asking CJ for his own persoanl experience that he mentioned.

[CJWolf]

Originally posted by maximus_pecs
CJ, what was it that you learned form personal experience concerning lon cycles if you dont mind me asking? I've heard nothing but good things if you get blood work done on a regular basis and have a proper cycle planned.

I've always gotten regular checkups when i've done AS, and i've only been using them for about 2 years. Once i finally got started in the game i had an unlimited supply for dirt cheap.

Somewhere along the way I decided that high doses was the way to go and i began to double my doses at random. For a while i was just obsessed with getting bigger and didn't care about the later sides.

My first cycle was educated ... the 2nd cycle was pretty low dose and i had great results, but i decided to double the dose the next time around ... then i was on for about 9 months, and used insane amounts of juice, HCG, clomid, liquidex and orals etc ...

i was tested every 6 weeks, and the tests never showed a problem .... when i finally did come off i crashed hard, even after doing 1000 iu/day of HCG for 3-4 weeks ...

post cycle my cholesterol was 284, and it was 4 1/2 months before my test levels returned to the median levels from before ... my liver values came back elevated 6 weeks after i quit the AS, which i thought was really strange ... i had chronic tendonitis, which i still get sometimes if i don't watch the weight i lift properly ... I gained a total of 55 lbs in the time i was on, and had a complete overall body change ...

once i got off i suffered from depression, had complete lack of motivation, basically quit working out, and didn't do much of anything ... all my work for nothing ...

After being on for that long, at the end i did 1600 mg/wk of t400 and 1400 mg/wk of QV EQ, and i still didn't have that great of results, even stacking with 50 mg/day of dbol ...

Basically i realized i just need to slow it down, take it slow, and keep my body in good working order ...

we only get one body, and i'd rather keep mine till i'm 75 than lose it at 55 which is the average age of death for NFL players and BB's ...

[maximus_pecs]

CJ, thanks alot for sharing your experinces. I totally agree that high doses for long period of time are not a good idea at all. I know of a guy that took 900mg of deca for 1 year. Yes that is not a typo he really took 900mg of deca per week! He crashed really hard as well. Stopped working out lost all motivation... Hes now the same size he was before his cycle.

the people that I know that have done successful long cycles of uo to a year stayed at very modest doses. An example would be 400-500mg test with short 9 weeks additions of EQ, or Tren with Winny being used at the tail end of the cycle. I'm currently in week 14 of a 25 week cycle that looks like this.

week 1-4 dbol 20mgs day
week 1-23 Test cyp 400 mg day
week 1-17 EQ 400mg day
week 17-25 Tren 75mg day
week 20-25 winny 50mg day
week 1-23 HCG 500 IU twice week
Week 23-25 HCG 5000 IU divided week
week 1-25 liquidex at .25 mg day
End of week 25 start Clomid/Nolva therapy for 4 weeks.

This is my second cycle, my first being 15 weeks of test cyp and eq at 400mg a week. I recovered from this cycle in 2 months and kept 22 of the 30 pounds that I gained.

So far this cycle I'm up 20 pounds but my goal is to cut some fat and harden up with out losing muscle mass. for the past few weeks my weight has held steady but strength keeps climbing and fat loss is progressing nicely. Testical atrophy has been a non issue due to the HCG (hypothalamar-pituitary-testicular-axis)but I'm still concerned about the HPTA coming back around when I'm off the cycle. Not that I've had problems in the past but I'm just a paramoid freak..

Just my .02 guys!

I would love to debate this more as it is a rather interesting subject.


My current stats as i forgot to mention them

5'9
212 lbs
12% BF
been training 7 years

[CJWolf]

see, i'd rather do short acting esters and be on for 8 weeks and hit it hardcore ... do HCG/clomid for 6 weeks post cyccle, and then do another 8 week cycle ...

i think you'd have the same gains, while helping the HPTA recovery ...

[Josh]

Originally posted by maximus_pecs
CJ, thanks alot for sharing your experinces. I totally agree that high doses for long period of time are not a good idea at all. I know of a guy that took 900mg of deca for 1 year. Yes that is not a typo he really took 900mg of deca per week! He crashed really hard as well. Stopped working out lost all motivation... Hes now the same size he was before his cycle.

the people that I know that have done successful long cycles of uo to a year stayed at very modest doses. An example would be 400-500mg test with short 9 weeks additions of EQ, or Tren with Winny being used at the tail end of the cycle. I'm currently in week 14 of a 25 week cycle that looks like this.

week 1-4 dbol 20mgs day
week 1-23 Test cyp 400 mg day
week 1-17 EQ 400mg day
week 17-25 Tren 75mg day
week 20-25 winny 50mg day
week 1-23 HCG 500 IU twice week
Week 23-25 HCG 5000 IU divided week
week 1-25 liquidex at .25 mg day
End of week 25 start Clomid/Nolva therapy for 4 weeks.

This is my second cycle, my first being 15 weeks of test cyp and eq at 400mg a week. I recovered from this cycle in 2 months and kept 22 of the 30 pounds that I gained.

So far this cycle I'm up 20 pounds but my goal is to cut some fat and harden up with out losing muscle mass. for the past few weeks my weight has held steady but strength keeps climbing and fat loss is progressing nicely. Testical atrophy has been a non issue due to the HCG (hypothalamar-pituitary-testicular-axis)but I'm still concerned about the HPTA coming back around when I'm off the cycle. Not that I've had problems in the past but I'm just a paramoid freak..

Just my .02 guys!

I would love to debate this more as it is a rather interesting subject.


My current stats as i forgot to mention them

5'9
212 lbs
12% BF
been training 7 years

why r u shooting eq ed at that dose?

[BigSoda]

been on around 27 weeks and still have about 10 more,aok for me

[prolangtum]

Originally posted by CJWolf


we only get one body, and i'd rather keep mine till i'm 75 than lose it at 55 which is the average age of death for NFL players and BB's ...

I wouldnt say NFL players death is because of steroids, nor would i belive BBers average death is 55, nor could it be attributed to steroid use, Considering most guys started using steroids late teens early 20-30s, I dont think steroids had to much of an affect on early BBers as far as sides. Now, todays BBers, this will probaly be true, but i dont think that stat is anywhere near applicable

[maximus_pecs]

Originally posted by Josh
why r u shooting eq ed at that dose?

LOL Big Typo there! Here is how it should read.

week 1-4 dbol 20mgs day
week 1-23 Test cyp 400 mg per week
week 1-17 EQ 400mg per week
week 17-25 Tren 75mg day
week 20-25 winny 50mg day
week 1-23 HCG 500 IU twice week
Week 23-25 HCG 5000 IU divided week
week 1-25 liquidex at .25 mg day
End of week 25 start Clomid/Nolva therapy for 4 weeks.


I was talking about moderate doses and I accidently typed 400mg of eq a day!

[raybravo]

rather see someone blitz cycle , max androgens for 4 weeks and then insulin and gh for 4 weeks along with post cycle therapy , and regular blood tests , ure keepin ur htpa quite healthy and also gaining at a very fast rate , i hardly see any gains after 6 weeks , basically the body tryin to reach homeostasis by increasing catabolic factors , so that ure body is in equilibrium and it isnt gaining anymore .

[swolegreaser]

ray u from so cal?

[prolangtum]

Originally posted by raybravo
rather see someone blitz cycle , max androgens for 4 weeks and then insulin and gh for 4 weeks along with post cycle therapy , and regular blood tests , ure keepin ur htpa quite healthy and also gaining at a very fast rate , i hardly see any gains after 6 weeks , basically the body tryin to reach homeostasis by increasing catabolic factors , so that ure body is in equilibrium and it isnt gaining anymore .

Your body is also going through a roller coaster ride along the way, I think flucuations like that are much harsher on the body.

[raybravo]

how is it a roller coaster ride ? insulin and gh will hardly give u any fall so to speak . also help in lh recovery . if u ever try this cycle , trust me u will like it .

[GettinBIG]

Originally posted by raybravo
i hardly see any gains after 6 weeks , basically the body tryin to reach homeostasis by increasing catabolic factors
. [/B]

ray, are u saying this is true for most cycles ?

[bigdan]

i started a 22wker a week ago. gonna do 10-12 wks to get back where i was or better then start my cutter and go until the show. I dont think i could take time off and start cutting when i wasnt big as possible. I usually do 12 wker but for i show i have to stretch it out longer. I use to go to the DR. and he checked me and prescribe the stuff i asked him about coming off and he thought it was a bad idea could have been the $$$. I took some AD-50 for a month and had a check my liver values were up a little.

[raybravo]

for most cycles ive run , i even tried diff testosterones, then it was common sense and i realised that esters mean jackshit and testosterone build up is testosterone build up , i'm just saying body comes up with means to achieve homeostasis and it WILL not allow one to gain continuously for a long time , after a point , ure basically in a state of equilibrium , neither gaining nor losing . mind u , u can ofcourse see some gains by making changes in ur schedule , improve the way u train , eat , just that body seems to be coming up with some many defense mechanisms so to speak that its hard to see gains continually , and i dont see a point in staying on if ure staying stagnant .