damn reading bout the dbol bridge is cofusing !

[John Benz]

Big Cat and Bobo not only cited studies showing the suppression of dbol, and explained in elaborate detail the fallacy of using it as an effective cycle bridge.

Did you miss what he said about your bloodwork? It isn't relevant, and doesn't prove a thing. And since a great deal of this debate is based on conjecture and speculation, as little in the way of absolute proof was offered, it comes down to this. Who is more credible? Who has the greatest expertise (credentials, please)?

You may not like Big Cat, but he is known and respected throughout the worldwide bodybuilding community to a far greater extent than anyone on this board. Bobo can post his degrees, and if you can match them, fine. We don't always agree, but he never debates a point on which he is not positive. And he always has logic and studies to back up his position, not just "I used it and I'm fine." Do you even think before you write?

And once more, who are you again?

[The REAL Bobo]

Originally posted by rippedchef
just curious-have BC and Bobo done a few cycles

I have and currently finishing one up. From what I know of BC, he has not. He just trains champions.

[rippedchef]

no-not "screw science"-"use science" along with some experienced opinions and draw my own conclusions-weigh the risk vs. reward and choose a course of action-learn from my mistakes and continue towards my goals.Also bro I'm already "later in life"-maybe with some more life experience you won't take dissenting opinions so personally-I meant no disrespect-I can agree to disagree-can you answer my cycle question?-if not-its all good-I just think you scientists should act like scientists.I'm sure nobody in your Phd classes says fuck you and you don't know WTF your talking about...we can all tell by your posts your brilliant-act like it

[Lift Chief]

Originally posted by John Benz
Big Cat and Bobo not only cited studies showing the suppression of dbol, and explained in elaborate detail the fallacy of using it as an effective cycle bridge.

Did you miss what he said about your bloodwork? It isn't relevant, and doesn't prove a thing. And since a great deal of this debate is based on conjecture and speculation, as little in the way of absolute proof was offered, it comes down to this. Who is more credible? Who has the greatest expertise (credentials, please)?

You may not like Big Cat, but he is known and respected throughout the worldwide bodybuilding community to a far greater extent than anyone on this board. Bobo can post his degrees, and if you can match them, fine. We don't always agree, but he never debates a point on which he is not positive. And he always has logic and studies to back up his position, not just "I used it and I'm fine." Do you even think before you write?

All i would like to say is that Ulter and Fonz are 2 of the most respected mods on Elite- the largest board of this kind on the net as far as i know. I've heard of big cat before but i hardly think that your experience is an indication of who is more notorious than whom.

I would not go around insulting Ulter and Fonz just because you've never heard of them- that proves nothing- in fact i would say you're in the minority.

[rippedchef]

this can only be settled with light sabres

[The REAL Bobo]

Originally posted by Lift Chief

I would not go around insulting Ulter and Fonz just because you've never heard of them- that proves nothing- in fact i would say you're in the minority.

I already have on bb.com some time ago when we proves that Lipoderm was better than Yohimburn. Actually most of the work was done by Par.


Ulter? He's a salesman. A good one too, but science is not his specialty. Hell its not even mine.



This thread is pointless and turning into "who has the bigger balls".


So unless they can provide any proof on this matter since they are the ones that say it works and the burden of proof is on them, its pointless to go on. Sorry but fictitous, inaccurate bloodwork and opinion don't cut it.

[The REAL Bobo]

Originally posted by rippedchef
this can only be settled with light sabres

But were both on the dark side....

[Billy_Bathgate]

Originally posted by Juice Authority
Here we go again.

Bobo - just address the following:

1) The amount of e2 from a low dose such as 10mg Dbol
2) The amount present in ~20hrs
3) The amount of e2 necessary to cause SIGNIFICANT supression

Once you provide data or studies that disprove Billy's notion and contradict his blood test results we can all then relish in the fact that you and Big Cat were right all along.

Again, you will see these clowns cant answer this questoin. They have no proof that dbol doesnt work. No where did I say any of the things that Bobo supposedly handed my ass to me.

Quote me directly. Never said dbol was less supressive, never said dbols metabolites, never said there is no correlation of LH and Testosterone levels...lol..bobo your a joke...quote me



POINT IS, 3 QUESTIONS ARE UNANSWERED BY THESE "GURU'S" LMAO! (Cause they dont know...maybe BC might, but these two sure dont)

[Billy_Bathgate]

Fictious bloodwork. Funny how the only proof on either side must be "fictional" LMAO.

Are you ignorant? IVe done it, it worked.

You A) havent even done it B) cant prove on paper it doesnt work (reffer to above 3 important questions)

Why are you even arguing AT ALL????

[rippedchef]

I thought it was time for some levityLOL-enough is enough-do your bridge or don't-just agree to disagree and maintain our integrity

[GreasyGreek]

Might I add my opinion on the debate. First of all, I think nothing but good can come of this type of discussion, so thanks for letting your ideas be known. However, let's not use personal attacks - you guys disagree, that doesn't make you ****s or motherfuckers...etc.

Now, I would also like to add that neither of you are going to be able to provide a sufficient argument against the other side because we have both stated that there is a lack of scientific evidence in this field.

Billy, I don't think anyone doubts that the bridge worked for you. Surely it allowed for fully recovery of the HPTA while sparing your muscle. The lab tests show this. Even though this is an anecdotal case, it is still valuable. The problem some people have, is that there are some reasons as to why it shouldn't work. The questions as to what factors the metabolites play, just how suppressive one compound is over another, and normal recovery times are all largely issues that add to the uncertainty.

[Juice Authority]

Originally posted by rippedchef
I thought it was time for some levityLOL-enough is enough-do your bridge or don't-just agree to disagree and maintain our integrity

Why? I asked them to answer 3 simple questions that remain unanswered. They are:

1) The amount of e2 from a low dose such as 10mg Dbol
2) The amount present in ~20hrs
3) The amount of e2 necessary to cause SIGNIFICANT supression

[GreasyGreek]

Originally posted by Juice Authority

1) The amount of e2 from a low dose such as 10mg Dbol
2) The amount present in ~20hrs
3) The amount of e2 necessary to cause SIGNIFICANT supression

My point is that those questions are for the most part unanswerable.

[The REAL Bobo]

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
Again, you will see these clowns cant answer this questoin. They have no proof that dbol doesnt work. No where did I say any of the things that Bobo supposedly handed my ass to me.

Quote me directly. Never said dbol was less supressive, never said dbols metabolites, never said there is no correlation of LH and Testosterone levels...lol..bobo your a joke...quote me



POINT IS, 3 QUESTIONS ARE UNANSWERED BY THESE "GURU'S" LMAO! (Cause they dont know...maybe BC might, but these two sure dont)

Here we go Billy boy.

"Anywyas, heres one study for you showing no significatn suppression of dbol http://www.anabolicfitness.net/libr...Bol%20Study.pdf "

My response.

Plasma Testosterone Initial Value 19.6 Final Value 8.1
Plasma LH Initial Value 18.1 Final Value 15.4


Another interesting results of this study stated "the results did not support the belief that anabolic steroids increase strength and performance"


This was d-bol at 100mg/day and the results showed no increase in strenght and performance. Seems a little fishy to me.


This is what your basing your theory on? Looks like testosterone was suppressed to me.


Another one by our resident genius.

"did he say lh??? no i dont think so. he said testosterone. testosterone spikes are the highest in the am, first year endo will also tell you that. its on the same fucking point though. to be clear of anythign exengonous by night/early morning. "

BC's response informing him that he doesn't understand.

Hmmm, you missed have slept through that class.

1) GnRH and LH release are the first steps in the axis, these are the two stages where shutdown is initiated. Without this, you've already lost track of your point

2) Testosterone will actually peak several times during the day, if no discernable amount of pressure is displayed. When it is, testosterone will most likely be elevated the most shortly after these periods.

So double wrong, take a step back and let the grown-ups talk

Here;s a classy one by Billy boy


"your a stupid fuck, do you read your own profiles or do you just cutn paste them from here and there? loook at the god damn half lives. 17-aa is short time for metabolisation. what the fuck are you talking about dipshit "

Once again school is in session.

You amuse me. 4-6 hour half-life. Agree with you completely. But uhm, what about receptor times ? What about the half-life of the metabolites like 17-alpha-methyl estradiol ? This is not kindergarten boy, you want to color pretty pictures then do so. You want to talk shop on biology, pick up a book before you even speak to me, kay


So lets review. Billy boy didn't read the study correctly. He didn't understand that there are more factors in suppression than just LH. He didn't understand the metabolites cause suppression.



I still would like to know why you use D-Bol if it doesn't promte an increase in strenght or performance. This is coming from the study you posted. This is the person your listening too and taking advice on how to use AAS. Do you think its wise? I don't

[John Benz]

Originally posted by Lift Chief
All i would like to say is that Ulter and Fonz are 2 of the most respected mods on Elite- the largest board of this kind on the net as far as i know. I've heard of big cat before but i hardly think that your experience is an indication of who is more notorious than whom.

I would not go around insulting Ulter and Fonz just because you've never heard of them- that proves nothing- in fact i would say you're in the minority.

Elite is the second largest bb board. Shows how little you know. Bodybuilding.com is far and away larger, and Big Cat is head moderator there, and its most respected member as well. He has written training manuals and his articles on steriods and prohormones can be found as stickies on half the boards on the net.

I know who Ulter is, and the posts I have read by him at Mind and Muscle are laughable. I realize Fonz is a sharp guy, but was just defeated in his debate on these 2 dbol threads. Not insulting him, just stating fact.

FYI, Elite Fitness is not all that respected despite its size. Saying that Ulter and Fonz are 2 of the most respected mods on a board like Elite is no big deal. Go to any board and do a search on Elite Fitness. Nine times out of ten, you will find someone saying, "I don't go there much anymore, as I have to wade through 10 pages of crap to find one good post."

I don't know you, and you don't know me, so neither of our experiences means a great deal to the other. But I can prove my point. Go to google and do a search on all those names; Big Cat, Fonz and Ulter. See what you come up with.