Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

[prot]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Yes and the important points are that testosterone builds muscle outside the receptors by acting on other body processes, and that the number of receptors may actually increase because of incresed dosages.

Its hard to believe that mods and long term members give out such information as has been peddled in this thread without any science at all. Seems some just want to start with the idea that "test is dangerous" and make up facts to support that. Test has far fewer side effects than those "side" steroids that are DHT derivatives, etc. No one can determine the pros and cons ecept on an individual basis...trial and error for themselves.

[Skarhead]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Yes and the important points are that testosterone builds muscle outside the receptors by acting on other body processes, and that the number of receptors may actually increase because of incresed dosages.

Its hard to believe that mods and long term members give out such information as has been peddled in this thread without any science at all. Seems some just want to start with the idea that "test is dangerous" and make up facts to support that. Test has far fewer side effects than those "side" steroids that are DHT derivatives, etc. No one can determine the pros and cons ecept on an individual basis...trial and error for themselves.

thats all i wanted... was the science to back it up about "saturation" i hear it all the damn time, no articles or science to prove it

[Fit2bLarge]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Ahhhh, now that's refreshing!

[bowbow]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Thanks everyone, I actually enjoyed reading this.

[Skarhead]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Ahhhh, now that's refreshing!

For sure, my receptors are refreshed after reading that

[Sven]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

This has been by far one of the most informative threads I have read in a long time. Good topic skar........ you need some rep....come on guys...

[mick-G]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Very interesting thread, but i must input. Testosterone abused in this manner can lead to health problems down the road if used continually. I would not advise anyone but the serious bber or at comp level to use such dosages, at least without building up dosages from previous cycles. I have seen no evidence to support an increase in receptors due to saturation. There will always be a correlation between the dosage of any drug and the body processes, whether it be a positive or negative one. Younger ppl must take a serious look at what could happen in a negative aspect, before considering doing this, because when we are younger we tend to think of the "now" without reguard for what the outcome might bring.

[Skarhead]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Very interesting thread, but i must input. Testosterone abused in this manner can lead to health problems down the road if used continually. I would not advise anyone but the serious bber or at comp level to use such dosages, at least without building up dosages from previous cycles. I have seen no evidence to support an increase in receptors due to saturation. There will always be a correlation between the dosage of any drug and the body processes, whether it be a positive or negative one. Younger ppl must take a serious look at what could happen in a negative aspect, before considering doing this, because when we are younger we tend to think of the "now" without reguard for what the outcome might bring.

come on man! that arguement was like 2 pages ago! it's about receptors now...

Honestly, I agree, the sides could be detrimental to health, but maybe somone could handle it... who knows, we wont until you actually do it w/ monitored blood work.

[Sven]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Mick, you are correct, high dosing can cause serious health risks, and is not recomended.

But yes, to Skarhead, we were really making a point about receptor saturation.

[Sven]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

but maybe somone could handle it... who knows, we wont until you actually do it w/ monitored blood work.

maybe I should guinea pig this, and keep a log on the boards, keeping track of sides, progress, bloodwork, gains, and water retention, etc.
...........

[Equalizer]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Yes and the important points are that testosterone builds muscle outside the receptors by acting on other body processes, and that the number of receptors may actually increase because of incresed dosages.

Its hard to believe that mods and long term members give out such information as has been peddled in this thread without any science at all. Seems some just want to start with the idea that "test is dangerous" and make up facts to support that. Test has far fewer side effects than those "side" steroids that are DHT derivatives, etc. No one can determine the pros and cons ecept on an individual basis...trial and error for themselves.

If u read the thread it started about whether a first time user using 2g not trying to say "test is dangerous".Test doesnt have far fewer sides either, not when u are doing the big boy doses like 2g. I still say 2g is too much unless u are on year round. For the most part the sides of that kind of dosage will outweigh the pros unless u r a compteting bodybuilder/mode. When i say side effects i dont just mean zits and water retention, psychological is just as important.

[HungarianBeast]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Right! u are misintepreting. I still don't see where it says "use of steroids will "saturate" the receptors rendering them less effective"

Yeah, I know what you mean now. Your first statement (as quoted in my previous post) lead me to believe that you were not accepting of the concept of receptors themselves. I think we are all on the same page now. This is a very interesting topic, and I will look for research documents today when time permits. I have my last exam of the semester today, and a couple of projects at work to get some progress done on.

[HungarianBeast]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

thats all i wanted... was the science to back it up about "saturation" i hear it all the damn time, no articles or science to prove it

Here is one example I found. I know that some will say "it is dealing with rat pituitary cells." Finding research documents with humans as subjects is a little harder to find.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=173521&dopt=Abstract

Characterization of the androgen receptor in the anterior pituitary of the rat.

Naess O, Hansson V, Djoeseland O, Attramadal A.

The specific androgen receptors for testosterone (T) and 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in the cytosol fraction of the anterior pituitary of rats have been further characterized using electrophoresis and isoelectric focusing in polyacrylamide gels. After labeling of the cytosol fraction in vivo and in vitro, we were able to demonstrate androgen-protein complexes moving with an electrophoretic mobility (Rf) of 0.5 in 3.25% acrylamide gels containing 0.5% agarose and 10% glycerol. This method was used for quantitative measurements of pituitary androgen receptors, allowing multiple samples to be run simultaneously with little or no non-specific binding. There was no measurable dissociation of the androgen-receptor complexes during electrophoresis. When radioactive testosterone (1 nM) was added to pituitary cytosol fractions in vitro, there was an increase in the binding up to 4 hours of incubation at 0 C and little or no increase between 4 and 24 hours. All the binding studies therefore were done by incubation overnight at 0 C. When cytosol fractions were incubated with increasing concentrations of radioactive testosterone, a typical saturation curve was found. Scatchard plot analysis showed a binding capacity of 12.0 femtomoles/mg protein and the equilibrium constant of dissociation was estimated to be 3.4 +/- 0.7 (SD) X 10(-10)M. Like other androgen-receptor complexes, the testosterone-receptor complex in the anterior pituitary gland had an extremely slow rate of dissociation at 0 C (t1/2 greater than 4 days). The steroid specificity of the cytoplasmic androgen receptors was tested in vitro by the competing efficiency of different unlabeled steroids for [3H] testosterone binding. T and DHT caused the same inhibition of [3H]T to the receptors. However, since metabolism, of DHT to 5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol occurred even at 0 C, the affinity of DHT for the receptor is probably somewhat underestimated. Cyproterone acetate had approximately half the affinity for the receptor compared with T, whereas lower affinities were found for progesterone and 17beta-estradiol. Cortisol did not appear to have any affinity for the receptors. Isoelectric focusing in polyacrylamide gels showed a peak of bound radioactivity with an isoelectric point of 5.8. Thus, the characteristics of the cytoplasmic androgen receptors of the anterior pituitary gland are very similar to those of the androgen receptors described in the ventral prostate, epididymis, and testis.

PMID: 173521 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[HungarianBeast]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

Here is an article that mentions saturation specifically to a particular binding site on the AR. Also not the part highlighted in green:

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/gw/Cmd?GMResults&loc=lhc

Changes in testosterone muscle receptors: effects of an androgen treatment on physically trained rats.

Bricout VA, Germain PS, Serrurier BD, Guezennec CY.

Cell Mol Biol (Noisy-le-grand). 1994 May;40(3):291-4.

IMASSA-CERMA, Departement de Physiologie Systemique, Bretigny sur Orge, France.

From results obtained in physiological investigations carried out on various tissues sensitive to androgens, it seems that the hormonal receptivity can reflect changes in the endocrine status and specific response of a tissue. The purpose of the present investigation was to test whether an androgen treatment could modify the receptivity to testosterone of the skeletal muscle and myocardium of endurance trained rats. The experiment extended over 8 weeks, and animals received injections of delayed testosterone heptylate every seven days. The myocardium and two skeletal muscles with opposed functions and typology were examined: the extensorum digitorum longus (EDL), and the soleus (SOL). Results obtained using techniques based upon the radio-competition principles provided information on the testosterone-receptor binding. The binding curves were plotted up to the saturating concentration of tritiated mibolerone, a synthetic androgen specific of androgen receptors. The quantity of receptors, calculated at the specific saturation plateau is expressed in fmol/mg protein. Results show that contractile muscular activity always increased the quantity of receptors whereas the steroid treatment decreased it. Thus for EDL and SOL of control trained rats the quantity of receptors was 0.78 and 0.82 fmol/mg protein, respectively, compared to 0.23 and 0.43 fmol/mg protein for sedentary testosterone-treated rats. The same "contractile activity" effect was observed on the myocardium but enhanced with values of 1.63 fmol/mg protein for control trained rats versus 0.30 fmol/mg protein for sedentary testosterone-treated rats. The receptivity to testosterone of the skeletal muscle and myocardium changes under the effect of an androgen treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

Publication Types:

Journal Article

MeSH Terms:

Animals
Delayed-Action Preparations
Down-Regulation
Heart/*drug effects
Male
Muscle Contraction
Muscle Proteins/*drug effects/physiology
Myocardial Contraction
Myocardium/chemistry
Nandrolone/analogs & derivatives/metabolism
*Physical Endurance
Rats
Rats, Wistar
Receptors, Androgen/*drug effects/physiology
Running
Testosterone/administration & dosage/*analogs & derivatives/pharmacology

Substances:

0 (Delayed-Action Preparations)
0 (Muscle Proteins)
0 (Receptors, Androgen)
0 (testosterone receptor)
315-37-7 (testosterone enanthate)
3704-09-4 (mibolerone)
434-22-0 (Nandrolone)
58-22-0 (Testosterone)

Date of Electronic Publication: 1994 May
PMID: 7920175 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Skarhead]

Re: Mega dosing test (2+ grams a week)

ok, just got back from my last final as well -- thank the lord.

Ok, Good articles, glad we're on the same page now.

however

if the ARs do get saturated than why do people take short breaks? or why do competitors stay on year round?