over the counter meds (asprin, tylenol)

[BossMann]

Originally posted by Solo
Yeah I know they exclude aspirin from NSAIDS now but it inhibits prostaglandin synthesis just the same. How can you say something that inhibits prostaglandin synthesis doesn't affect inflammation? Aspirin is an anti-inflammatory analgesic.

Yes it is the higher doses that are effective for inflammation but not 5g a day. And plenty of ppl do take it everyday and get ulcers. And yes I know Helicobacter pylori is a spirohete that causes ulcers as well.

Aspirin inhibits COX 1 as do the other over the counter NSAIDS. This was my point. It leads to irritation and eventual destruction of the gastric lining.

Your body has certain levels it likes to maintain for each chemical in the body. It will compensate for any chemical inhibitions and at the low levels that IB and other NSAIDS do this, it plays no effect on the overall function of the body. It takes LARGE amounts of these chemicals to alter the homeostasis of the human body.

[BossMann]

Originally posted by mick-G
My problem with these statements is that it does not state how much and frequency to cause these conditions. I am just implying that it would take large amounts to cause these reactions, and it would depend by the individual taking them ie ( a person with past gastronomical problems, allergic reactions etc), I am not saying these statements are totally false, just very vauge and leads the reader into believing that any asprin or ibuprofin will lead to gastro problems. Using a blanket statement "And plenty of ppl do take it everyday and get ulcers as well" is a statement without validation. Any medications taken in excess over long periods of time will cause adverse reactions.

Exactly....

[Solo]

Originally posted by BossMann
That has been a joke from way back on fitnessboard days...As far as my credentials, I am a medicinal/peptide chemist that has done work in this very area for around two years now. I also have a personal healthcare background.

One major problem we have in the medical community today is we have physicians that do not know how to read research papers and then go write their on summaries that are way off. Some Dr.'s today, certainly not all, do not understand that there are many variable that affect things such as chemical interaction between other drugs and pre-existing conditions. These play a very significant role in ailments such as stomach ulcerations. Normal folks with normal stomachs almost never have any problems with Ibuprofen, et al.

My point was not to disrespect you, but to let you know that before those assumptions can be made, all varibles must be considered.

I take no offense in your statements and i'm glad we can have these discussions. I too am in the health profession being 2 years away from being a doctor. Its hard because we learn so much in school and alot of the info is vague and scattered. This is a lesson to me to be more precise and accurate with the information I lay down. I hope I didn't cause any scares but my message was written with the best intent and interest for the board members. And I still do contend with the original thought....basically that meds that are accessible to all shouldn't be taken in a manner as daily vitamins. This is good practice for me because I need to learn how to give information to the general public as well as the educated minority (this place being both) (minority not being racial)

I'm sort of kicking myself because I kind of have a big education ego and its my biggest nightmare to be a person who spouts off false information. I wrote all my statements from my memory which I probably shouldn't have done.... but anyway....i'm smart i swear..haha.

[Solo]

but still and yet...what about those research studies that are finding such strong implications with NSAIDS and ulcers? I went back and looked a few up after my first post was written and they are there. Then comes the problem of prescribing ulcer medications to combat the acquired symptoms. So this time i'm asking and not telling so leave me alone mick

[BossMann]

Originally posted by Solo
but still and yet...what about those research studies that are finding such strong implications with NSAIDS and ulcers? I went back and looked a few up after my first post was written and they are there. Then comes the problem of prescribing ulcer medications to combat the acquired symptoms. So this time i'm asking and not telling so leave me alone mick

I certainly do not doubt your education and posting this info spurned this conversation...educate the masses!

Not every paper/research project is done perfectly and like we know, many variables come in to play. As you read/do (depending if you practice medicine or go into research) you will learn toseperate the well done studies from the bad. Now I am not the almighty on this or any subject, but from what I've seen, ulceration, and kidney/liver issues are very uncommon in normal healthy folks on no other reactive meds or pre-existing conditions. Remember, ketoprofen, IB, aspirin, acetomenophen et al. are relatively mild as far as their effectiveness...that's why the are "over the conter." BUT true, like any compound we use daily, if abused there can be noticeable side effects.

Plus, I take IB a lot and was still able to pack on 30 lbs!

[mick-G]

Originally posted by mick-G
My problem with these statements is that it does not state how much and frequency to cause these conditions. I am just implying that it would take large amounts to cause these reactions, and it would depend by the individual taking them ie ( a person with past gastronomical problems, allergic reactions etc), I am not saying these statements are totally false, just very vauge and leads the reader into believing that any asprin or ibuprofin will lead to gastro problems. Using a blanket statement "And plenty of ppl do take it everyday and get ulcers as well" is a statement without validation. Any medications taken in excess over long periods of time will cause adverse reactions.

I still stand by this statment. And I'am not picking on you Solo, K?

[Solo]

Originally posted by BossMann


Plus, I take IB a lot and was still able to pack on 30 lbs!

I wasn't the one that commented on protein synthesis.

[HungarianBeast]

Read an article on Tom Prince?He was taking very large amounts of non steroidal anti inflamatories for years to get through his lifting routines. That coupled with diuretic use for contest prep shut down his kidneys. He has been diagnosed with 90% normal function post dialasis treatment.
NSAIDS are scary to me. I use them very sparingly.

[BossMann]

Key words: very large amounts and diuretics.

A little opinion on spicey foods, I think that if you eat spicey foods regularly throughout your life you become much more resistant to ulcers, heartburn, etc. I wish I could do some research on that subject, but I have to do what they tell me!

[BossMann]

Similar to this...

"Will I not get as high when I smoke crack if I smoke a cigarette before hand? I also hear that smoking tobacco causes cancer, so I'm quiting and stick to the crack."

LOL

[Solo]

Originally posted by blm9376
What kills me is you have guys using Fina and they are worrying about the effects of aspirin...hmmm

you're missing the point. It wasn't my goal to list every bad thing you can put in your body in its order of importance/toxicity. This is just something that people probably don't think about. And I still think if you take ibuprfen at 1000mg a day over a long enough time that it will give you gastritis. I emailed my pathology professor to get his advice and i'm waiting for his reply.

[mick-G]

Originally posted by Solo
And I still think if you take ibuprfen at 1000mg a day over a long enough time that it will give you gastritis. I emailed my pathology professor to get his advice and i'm waiting for his reply.

Ok, now your talking 1000mg.....hmmmm. Like i said i stand behind my statement above, and 1 asprin ed or a few ibuprophin is not going to cause the problems listed in the normal healthy person. My only problem with your thread is that it is very general, vauge, and misleading. I do respect your opinion, as i hope you do mine.

[Solo]

Originally posted by blm9376
No I'm not missing the point. Geez, give a guy an A&P class and he's ready to take on the world...

Are you fucking kidding me?

You have no idea.

Philosophy I 2
ANAT200 Neuroanatomy I 5
ANAT210 Spinal Anatomy I 2
ANAT202 Gross Anatomy I 6
ANAT208 Embryology 5
CBPM110 Rights & Responsibilities 1
PHCH301 Biochemistry I 6
PHCH341 Fundamentals of Neurophysiology 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

30 credit hours



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second Trimester (Term Code = 52)

PHIL112 Philosophy II 2
ANAT204 Gross Anatomy II 6
ANAT211 Spinal Anatomy II 5
PHCH331 Cellular Physiology 3
PHCH337 Neurophysiology 3
PHCH338 Endocrinology 3
PHCH305 Biochemistry II 5
LIBR110 Information Literacy 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28 credit hours

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Third Trimester (Term Code = 61)

ANAT205 Organ Histology 5
ANAT206 Neuroanatomy II 5
PHCH339 Cardiovascular Pulmonary Physiology 4
PHCH342 Advanced Neurophysiology 2
PATH408 Fundamentals of Pathology 4
PATH416 Microbiology 5
PATH415 Immunology and Communicable Diseases 3
TECH602 Palpation 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

30
credit hours
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fourth Trimester (Term Code = 62)

PHIL113 Philosophy III 2
PHCH304 Digestive Physiology and Nutrition 3
PHCH340 Renal Physiology 3
PATH405 Public Health 3
PATH410 Systems Pathology 7
ROEN505 Radiology I - Intro to Bone Imaging 6
TECH603 Toggle Recoil 5
TECH605 Instrumentation 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

31

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fifth Trimester (Term Code = 71)

PATH413 Toxicology 3
ROEN506 Radiology II - Advanced Interpretation 4
TECH604 Cervical Technique 5
DIAG707 Neuromusculoskeletal Diagnosis I 5
DIAG708 Physical Diagnosis 10
TECH613 Spinal Biomechanics 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

31

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sixth Trimester (Term Code = 72)

PHIL114 Philosophy IV 2
ROEN507 Radiology III -Technology & Protection 6
TECH606 Thoraco-Lumbar Technique 5
TECH612 Pelvic Technique 5
DIAG703 Neuromusculoskeletal Diagnosis II 5
CLIN803 Introduction to Clinical Practice 2
DIAG713 Obstetrics and Pediatrics 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

30

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seventh Trimester (Term Code = 81)

ROEN504 Radiology IV - Positioning 5
TECH614 Technique Principles and Practice 5
TECH615 Extremity Adjusting 5
DIAG705 Visceral Disorders & Laboratory Interpretation 5
DIAG716 Clinical Psychology 2
CBPM134
CLIN805 Clinical Methods 5
CLIN806 Emergency Procedures 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

32

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eighth Trimester (Term Code = 82)

PHIL115 Philosophy V 4
CLIN801 Legal Issues 2
CBPM135 Financial Management Strategies 2
CBPM140 Special Topics 2
DIAG717 Gender Disorders 4
CLIN820 Clinical Case Correlations I 3
CLIN816 Clinic I 14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

31

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninth Trimester (Term Code = 91)

PHIL116 Philosophy VI 2
DIAG712 Geriatrics 2
RSCH841 Evidence-Based Chiropractic 2
CBPM137 Practice Management Strategies 4
CLIN802 Regulatory Issues 2
CLIN821 Clinical Case Correlations II 3
CLIN817 Clinic II 14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tenth Trimester (Term Code = 92)

CBPM139 Planning for Practice Success 3
CLIN822 Clinical Case Correlations III 6
CLIN815 Clinic III 19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28




I have a B.S. in biology and i'm in 4th trimester. Good thing I had that A & P class.

[mick-G]

I had a feeling this is where this whole thread was leading. He will make an excellent Dr. hes already got the "God Syndrone"..lol!

[HungarianBeast]

I'd be on edge too with that load.