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I’ve always heard hgh takes a while to kick in and should be run for a longer period of time.
So I have a question,
is it better to run a lower dosage say 2-3 per day for a longer durations of approximately 12 months
Or
is it better to work up to 6ius per day and stay there for about 7 months?
Also is there any science or pros/cons to doing those 5 on 2 off or 6 on 1 off splits or is that just a way to save money or prolong the use?
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I would run 12 months at 2 -3 a day and I do the 5 on 2 off. I use the 5 on 2 off for sake of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by sofargone561
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Good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ric
If I end up doing what I’m kind of throwing around I should be able to run 4ius per day if I do the 5/2 split.
Month 1: 2ius
Month 2: 3ius
Month 4-12: 4ius
Originally I planned on doing 4ius everyday for the entire 12 months but right after I placed my order the place I ordered from got busted and I lost my money. I don’t have the same budge this time around so I’ll either have to run a lower dose, lower time or do the split.
I just wanted to see what everyone else said to see if it was even worth it running at this point.
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i like that setup of ramping up. it will lessen the cts issues and other side effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by sofargone561
so the reason to go 5 on and 2 off is not just from a money side. your body will develop anti bodies and start to fight the external gh over time and it also shuts down t3 production. so to semi combat this the 5on 2 off helps to an extent. you also need to supplement with t4 or better yet 12.5 to 25mcg of t3 to keep the thyroid from being down regulated with gh use. it also makes you insulin resistant over time as well. so adding in a small amount of log or humilin r around training will also help with this as well. all stuff to make your gh use optimal
Sounds good. I remember the t3 issue from last time we talked about this. I’m also aware of the insulin issue but I’m not comfortable using that yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
This may seem silly but i know it’s smart to ramp up but is there a reason to ramp down at all or is it fine to just stop taking it.
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no need to ramp down with gh. most people just ramp up slowly to prevent cts issues which are brutal painful and make stuff impossible to do with your hands. same goes with some water on the joints initially at starting higherQuote:
Originally Posted by sofargone561
Ok makes sense. I’ve always known about ramping up, never heard anyone ramp back down but figured it couldn’t hurt to ask
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I would use 2-3 ius everyday if I could.
2-3iu per day is typically what I do as well. I've ramped it up before for periods of time, but I always come back to 2-3iu per day. I guess I just feel the best bang for my buck at that dose lol.
Cool well see what happens. I plan on doing 5 on 2 off.
2ius for a month.
3ius month 2
4ius month 3
5ius for the rest of the year until it runs out.
If I don’t like 5ius or the 5on 2 off split for some reason I’ll lower the dose and run it daily instead.
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How common and how worried should I be about redness, tenderness and a lump with subq stomach injections?
Did 1 shot of 1iu of gh to see how it would go.
Shot was fine and no pain when injecting.
No pain the rest of the day.
Next day I notice a red spot and a lump, not uncommon.
No pain but a little tender if I touched it.
The day after that the red spot was bigger.
The lump was the same size and injection site hurt to the touch.
Day after that the redness was almost gone and lump was smaller. Pain was much less.
4 days later there almost no more redness.
Very small lump you have to like search for and no pain unless I really press on it.
So basically I’m used to redness and pip and what not but I’m new to gh or any injections in stomach so I’m just checking.
It took 4 days from injection to be normal.
My concern is I’ll be doing a shot everyday. If this is how it goes every shot everyday it could be a problem.
Am I have a reaction? Should i discontinue?
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its a minor reaction and shouldnt be an issue. it happens from time to time. go higher or lower and make sure the alcohol you use to clean the area has completely evaporated prior to inj. u can also go sub q at the top of your thigh, if the it continues to get aggervated. the upper thigh isnt as sensitive as the ab area is. i wouldnt sweat it though. i get it when the gh i am using isnt as pure
Cool. Yeah they are generics so it’s not pharmacy stuff so I figured. Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
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The quick answer is absolutely no there's no scientific research or anything on how to use HGH optimally for bodybuilding.Quote:
Originally Posted by sofargone561
Your entirely right HGH needs to be run over a long period of time it is not a drug that you could take for 2 months and expect any tremendous gains it works over a long period of time it works very well over a long period of time along with anabolics. I truly believe a lower dose for a longer time is way better than a higher dose for a shorter time. The last time I used GH I used three IUS everyday for 24 weeks and got tremendous results. I grew a lot more in those 24 weeks than I usually would have but mostly was how lean it kept me no matter what I did. I was growing and staying about five 6% body fat no matter what I did.
Again this is all speculation there's no scientific resources it is all my opinion based on personal experience and watching others and talking to others. It also has to do with your budget if I had enough money I was a little short at the time I would have rather have used four ius a day but that's as high as I would ever go with GH. These guys taking nine Ius 12 Ius 20 I think it's ridiculous.
Everybody's different man my my recommendation to you would be try a lower dose for a long period of time I actually had good results with two ius a day and one time very good results especially fat burning and definitely increase muscle growth when mixed with anabolics even at 2 ius a day but for a long period of Time 5 6 months.
I don't have personal experience with high doses over short periods of time but I do know a lot of people that have tried that and it seems to not give them the results they are looking for. The one thing you want to avoid with GH is that the distended stomach. It seems like that only happens in very large dosages for pretty long periods of time that's why I would never go past four a day.
Also I'd like to touch on insulin use which I think is totally overblown just like thyroid use. I have never used GH without insulin and I'll tell you how I've used the insulin and this is how I was told to use insulin by two of the best trainers in the late 1990s that I use for contest prep. I would take five IU's of humulin R before breakfast. After training bring your HGH to the gym in a cooler with an ice pack and as soon as you're done training shoot your HGH. Go home 30 to 40 minutes later do your 5 to 10 ius of insulin, humulin r, with something like orange juice grape juice some kind of high sugar juice and about 5 mg of creatine. Right after that you can either have a protein shake or a meal. The guidelines that were set out when people first started using insulin was to use about 10 g of carbs per iu of insulin but that is too high in my opinion. If you want to be safe use that because you will never have a problem using that much. So if you use five IU's of insulin you have to take in 50 g of carbs. I've used insulin several times and never had a single problem and I've known so many bodybuilders professionals top amateurs also never had any problems. Insulin can kill you yes but a lot of things can kill you if you're an idiot and you don't take care of yourself and do it the right way.
When I was competing in the late 90s the big thing was the mixture of HGH, insulin and t3. I left a t3 out a lot just because my metabolism is a lot faster than most people but that combination on someone with a normal metabolism will have profound effects on somebody.
Please don't go out and do this if you're a beginner or never competed before or never plan on competing this is overkill. I only did this when I started competing nationally for the junior Nationals and the USA. If I wasn't at that level I would have never done something like this so I'm pretty much talking to people that are competitors want to be competitors or guys that just want to be gigantic for whatever reason. A normal kid in the gym that just wants to look good for the girls for the beach you do not need HGH insulin or t3. On the other hand I'm not going to bullshit anybody and I'm going to be straightforward people ask a question I'm going to answer it I'm not going to pull punches.
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If you want true quality results go with Pharma grade. There is a big difference in the 2 of generic and Pharm. sazien is my first choice Humatrope is my 2nd choice and sero's would be my 3rd choice just basing off my results in the HGH game. For me I never got the shredded thin skin look and the 3D look off of Generic GH.. Pharma will blow your mind. Theres a reason for that if you do deep research you'll understand. You get what you pay for brother. Theres a reason why generic GH cost little to nothing. Everyone says you won't see results with GH for six months blah blah. Those are your guys running generics. All about trial and error my friend. Just trying to save you time and money. I run 4-6ius. I highly suggest to start out on 2iu for at least the first month then bump up to 4. I do suggest running HGH for 6 months-12 months. And I want to make it clear that I am not knocking anyone for running generic HGH. I have used generic and Pharm both for many years. This is my own personal experience with use and my body. what has worked best for me may not work best for you.
Lol, you always seem to write the same thing I am about to.Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
Put in a small dose of t3 and some Humilin r after training.
Insulin can be used safely it's easy just eat after taking it, carbs. If you take in 10 grams of carbs per iu of insulin it's more than enough.
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This one is betterQuote:
Originally Posted by sofargone561
I wish there was somebody that could answer all these questions you just listed nobody knows really the top pros don't know the top trainers the body but they don't know nobody knows the correct those cheese that's needed to induce the optimum muscle growth the the range goes from before I used to 12 I use 25 I use a day which I'm sure 25 I use a day is way too much. there's a good chance for us is enough or maybe it's 6:00 or maybe it's 9:00 nobody knows and there's never going to be any studies done on it in relation to bodybuilding because it's not indicated for bodybuilding. so you just going to have to keep reading these boards and getting feedback from people that use it. it's one of the reasons I don't use it cuz I don't even know how much I'm supposed to takeQuote:
Originally Posted by RichardSilva
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I do know the answer to this lower and longer is definitely better than higher and shorterQuote:
Originally Posted by RichardSilva
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that's really great to say and you're right 100%. if everybody could afford human trope everybody should take you in trouble the problem is there's people working check out there who can't afford the ridiculous price of human growth on United States made human growth hormones so they have to go to the other brands I don't know how good these other brands are with their much cheaperQuote:
Originally Posted by RexT44
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it's been awhile since HGH has been out on the market now so it's got to lose its patent soon meaning generics should be able to be made meaning the price should come down of the US brands. I'm not sure when that's going to happen if they usually hold the patent for 10 or 15 years but it has to be close to that by now. I mean they really really up the price on that stuff I mean they really milked every penny they could out of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by pgc640
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Oh GH lost his pat in a long time ago That's why there's a bunch of different brands out there now once it had its patent still the patents only good for 10 to 15 years I forget but if you have the patent only one brand is out there I think it was Eli Lily. But now if you see there's a bunch of different pharmaceutical companies out there. And it did it did take the price down but it's still ridiculous if you don't have quite a bit of money in the US because if you want it get it legally in the US you got to go to an anti-aging clinic where no insurance is going to cover and pay them what they want which is probably like $1,500 I don't know I'm guessing then you have to pay for the medication itself because I don't think the insurance company is going to cover it for an off label use. And human growth hormone even though it's come down the price of it in the US is still insane even at a pharmacy I mean it depends on how much money you have I mean anybody that wants to use growth who would choose to use these blue tops or gray tops or black tops I mean what the hell is in that? Of course I would want to use humatrope. It's a it's a thing a money thing basically. But yeah they're patent ran out a long time agoQuote:
Originally Posted by pgc640
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anti aging clinics will not use insurance for anything they provide services for and the current cost from one of the companies i have seen for us pharm gh is between 900-1k. sad thing is if you get it from a hookup it is going to cost that or more. it is out there both legal and the alternative but you are going to be carrying a very empty wallet. lots of good generics out there though at a fraction of the priceQuote:
Originally Posted by pgc640
I know there are a whole bunch of these grey area companies selling 100-150 IU kits for 200-300$.Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
I was skeptical but about the only steroids I use are dragon pharma and I've used everything( I'm 50 started this at 16) . I've used stuff straight from US pharmacy, European pharma grade was what was mostly around in the early and late 90s of course that stuff is the best. However I do not see any difference between the dragon pharma stuff and the 0harma grade stuff I have used. D) is definitely a good product. From what I hear they basically have their own lab that's just like a pharmaceutical lab it's just not licensed I'm not sure exactly where it is somewhere in Asia but I don't think it's in China though but it might be. I've used about all their products except the somatropine, which I'm about to order, and I think every single one was right on the money dose wise and never had a sterility problem. Plus it's pretty cheap for the quality if you find a good source. I get it from Europe, it take about 2-3 weeks but I would rather wait than buy something I can get faster but I have no idea if it's any good or if it's sterile. So I stick with the dragon pharma. The only other brand I may use is from 7labs pharma in Sweden. It's a bit cheaper than DP and , for me, I never had a quality issue with them either.
Anyway that's what I am going to do what you mentioned I'm about to order four boxes of what they call dragontroping dragon pharma SomaTropin 10 vials 10 Ius a vial for $200. That a good price though I usually see it around $300.
Never used it but heard nothing but good feedback from those who have, even saying it's just as good as any pharma brand, we'll see.
Also was told a brand called KAPLA makrs a 100 Iu kit also for $180. Friend of mine swears by it and he switched from nordotropin I think it's called, a pharma brand, to this kapla for financial reasons. Said his serum levels stayed same as did his igf1. So, if looking for something cheaper it is out there.
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Just to add you can look online on several web pages That actually test these brands to make sure they're on point or they're not. I've seen about every dragon pharma product tested by one lab or another. Pretty much the testosterone is always overdosed if it's supposed to be 250 it's around 270. The orals are usually about right on The only time I saw anything come back low was their anadrol it was supposed to be 50 mg like everybody else's and it came back 48.5 which is negligible. For the most part even like their injectables like NPP Deca equipoise they all come back a little bit high for the most part not ridiculously high where you'd have to worry about taking too much but like 20 mg high 10 mg high. Never low though. There's also a brand name British dragon and don't get that confused with what I'm talking about because I've also seen the results from them and their s*** is garbage it's always low always those slow it's underdose b*******.
I have no stake in DP products just would rather see guys using safe stuff.
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Something else I forgot to say but there are so many of these gray area companies now it's really good because they're in competition with one another. And everybody knows what competition does it brings the prices down and it brings the quality of the s*** up. So mostly all of these gray area companies when they're tested they come back pretty close to right on. Now if you had one company acting as a monopoly and the only one that's when you run into problems and they try to cut corners but I think we're pretty safe with the amount of stuff running around out there.
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I noticed thread is super old but I don't know if the OP is still following it but I recently read an article about his exact question. Is it better to run less for a long time or more for a short time. Apparently the conclusion was there's no doubt about it it's better to run less for a long time. When it comes to somatropin or GH whatever you want to call it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sofargone561
I find these things in places like the New England journal of medicine stuff written for doctors if you guys really want to get information like real information on real studies done there aren't too many but when they are done they're out there to find. And you could pretty much count on that because if it's in the you know journal and medicine either New England or the American it's not b******* they did a real controlled double-bind study.
Also there are more done in Europe you can find those also. And they're usually easily translatable to English.
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I have no scientific basis whatsoever for this conclusion so take it with a grain of salt but I truly believe taking GH over a longer period of time at a lower dose is much better than taking it over a shorter period of time and higher those. I mean the resident expert here is guns I mean get him to answer your question and he'll tell you everything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgc640
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No doubt I agree HGH longer use is always, from what I've read, better than shorter
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Ah, the delicate dance of hormones and supplements – it's like orchestrating a symphony in the body!Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
It's essential to approach the use of any substance with caution and under the guidance of a healthcare professional.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgc640