Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

[daved150]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

well, i disagree with dave on one thing

ceo crap, that u have too pay to get a good one

ceo's have become like rock stars and pro athletes, they get paid the most on perception and potential, which is 100% the boards fault, and all is does is set the company up for tons of problems, ie, ceo's making 100 times the workers, no one and i mean no one is worth that much except a few in the world, buffet and gates and jobs, and the list ends right f'n there

what every board, and every one misses is one guy can f'n destroy fifty years of good in a few years with stupid dumb bad decisions based on stupid beliefs systems

i've said it a hunnert times on this sight

bush invades irag

smart money shorts the currency buys commodities

sec allows banks and brokers to lever up 30-40 too 1 from 10-15

gosh, now they can exert more pressure on shorting currency and buying commodities

and boom, in july it all collapsed when earl hit 147 a barrell, not one biz on earth could budget for next six months too a year, no one

total stupidity from the white house, total stupidity, why, no one logically weighed the downside risk to any of these decisions

and here we all sit, all of our hands forced to do things we don't want too, all of us world wide

which is the only saving grace, worlwide we are all in the same boat

we truly are global now


hate motivates and every one hates where we are right now

the only thing that will work is a few years of smart decisions by all

not saving car mfg is truly f'n insane, so many talk about bankruptcy like it is a la dee da moment

bankruptcy in a strong economy is not the worst that can happen, the other players will buy the pieces at great prices because they have money honey

a bankruptcy during this time would be bye bye bye time, the end of lot's of stuff, no one and i mean no one has money to buy the pieces, they will all go too the junkyard

your right about the bk, but your not seeing my point on the ceo's. your right that the boards allowed this to happen, but when a dealer wants to hire me, he offers more money...soo...i went from 4k a month (not really alot at the time, but we made due), to 6k a month (more than enough to make ends meet), to 8, to 10, to 12k a month (moved to michigan and it was back to 8, back to 6, lol)...where exactly should i have said "no...thats too much sir...i can make it on less? where was it that I was too greedy? they were hiring me on potential, no? and bro...you DO have to pay to get good help. i wont manage for less than 5k...thats my line. greedy? i'd say 5k is CHEAP for what i'll make you! i'll gross you 20x's that and drive the expences down and net you more out of it than any other fuker in the biz. how did i get to 12k? and...i'll want a raise shortly after showing you that. i dont get it...i move on!
now i realize my 12k a month was WAAAAY less than the money their making, but their ship is WAAAAY bigger than the one i'm steering!
i actually believe most people should be paid on 100% commision. i believe, only then, do you get paid EXACTLY what your worth.

[trip]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

dave,

it's not your pay it's ceo pay

when i ran my construction company i made 15% of the profits

then the ceo's started jacking with all kinds of stuff

bottom line was the ceo made more, i made less, and we had five times more problems

now, if the ceo had made a crap load, and i made less, and i had five times less problems, i could live with that no problem

but when the leader expects to be paid for perfection and is an idiot it destroys morale, almost totally

it's the old adage there is no I in team

[daved150]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

dave,

it's not your pay it's ceo pay

when i ran my construction company i made 15% of the profits

then the ceo's started jacking with all kinds of stuff

bottom line was the ceo made more, i made less, and we had five times more problems

now, if the ceo had made a crap load, and i made less, and i had five times less problems, i could live with that no problem

but when the leader expects to be paid for perfection and is an idiot it destroys morale, almost totally

it's the old adage there is no I in team

i understand that...i build teams.
my point is, the money is being paid, regardless of the compendancy of the individual in question. obviously the people who hired the idiot you worked for wasnt looking for a idiot. you got x amount of ceo's available to be hired at any givin time...you need a captain for your ship. the guy's your looking at are compensated at x amount of dollars now and you aint getting them for less...you step to the plate, write the check and hope you didnt hire a turd! the cost of compansation is a liability that ALL BOARDS WOULD LOVE TO DRIVE DOWN...but, until now, it didnt work that way! i'm not in disagreement that, imo, they (the ceo's) are GROSSLY over paid...i just think that there was no way around that! your not hiring them cheaper bro!! i wont manage for less than 5k (that's a severe pay cut, an AWSOME bargin, for what you get....you know...if your hiring, lol), and they wont work for less than millions!! so what now...dont have a ceo? it'd be better to let the board run the corporation...great...that'd be worse than a bean counter running a dealership! the "team" would starve to death! you need a leader...you pay the going rate...simple as that

[trip]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

ahhhhhh

let's say it this way

rick waggoner paid over 20 million a year for years

now your saying you couldn't get as good a guy or better for five million

imho, u get what u pay for and what u want

most folks know dookey about leadership, thus, to pick one is almost impossible, so they go too others for expert advice, versus putting in the effort of learning how too be better

there is as much laziness at top as at bottom, the problem the top has the power and position to shield there laziness

i watched the car guys friday

one questions

Rick, my fear, and what i would hate too have happen is something like this, i just read a piece where u are expanding your mexico operation, expanding the manufacturing plant, it is hard for taxpayer to give u money and then find out u spent it in mexico versus the us

ricks answer, i don't think we are exapanding in mexico, at least i don't think we are, i'll get back to you on that

my jaw dropped, your biz in mfg, and you have probably 15 plants us, 4-5 in mexico and canada each, and another 15 or so overseas, that is probably 40 overall

now i have been involved over the years in several mfg expansions at plants

number one, they ain't cheap, and they take a long long long time too engineer because of the complexity, so as a ceo u should damned well know if you have any major expansion plans on the board or not, period, and he didn't

when i ran my ship i could answer you cold 95 out of any 100 questions u asked, and the other 5 i'd have a rock solid answer of what if's and why's that made complete sense to even a 12 year old

[daved150]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

could you replace rick wagner for 5mil? sure...i'll take 5mil. too bad nobody knows who the fuk daved150 is! i have to admit i missed that question, but there's other veriables to answer that, that he may not have wanted to put forth in the 30 seconds he had there, and rather submit the writen answer...if thats the case, you could actually say it was a smart move! i'm not trying to give the bennifit of doubt, but i've BEEN on the hot seat in a dealership and even if i had the answer, but wanted to put my total thaught to it, too express my decission fully and completely, i'd make like i didnt have it right there...sorry if you find that unexceptable, but it's the best way to fully express yourself without time constrants and distractions.
also...concider the fact, that like you said, an expansion takes time. this credit crisis hit FAST bro...the gas prices skyrocketing causing the proffitable fullsize truck sales to plumit, came fast this summer also...these expansions, if in fact are being done, could have been started WELL before these prob's. the expansion may actually be part of what will turn them back into proffit, who knows!
you can villafy anyone you want at any given time if you look for it.
but, as i said, i think most people should be on a commision...you too probobly. if i hire you to train my team and my proffits DONT go up, you should not be paid! 100% commision for all...thats my opinion. that'd fix alot of things...lets pay people what there TRULY worth! (ofcourse...alot of poor basturds in congress will probobly fukin starve if thats the way it worked!!)

[SMILEY FACE]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

this thread is interesting.. I likey likey reading this thread

[daved150]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

trip...looking for your thaughts on previous post...thanks. one way or another, we'll get this hammered out and fix this shyt, lol.

where's klash?

[trip]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

the head of ford, mulally coming from boing aircraft when he got there 2 years ago, he took the company to the mats, he saw all this shyte coming

wagoner, nope he was blindsided, he was too busy getting a hummer, you could sum up gm in one story hummer

nardellie, actually the best communicator of the three was in wrong place at wrong time, they bought chrysler for a song from daimler after daimler messed it up, cut all of there foreign investments to nothing and made it totally 100% us dependent, they actually are doing some good stuff, yet, 140 earl basically wiped them out in six months

so in kiss summary

ford got it, and is getting it

chrysler, well, some time you just get caught up in shyte, bad timing, these guys are basically walking dead...........the machinery and brands have a value, yet, they right now cannot produce any profit for it too survive

gm, proverbial to big too fail situation, i know waggoner has done alot of great stuff at gm, yet, 80% of his focus was china will save us, and it did until china turned into usa with 150 earl, he bet all his chips there, and had no back-up plan or was working the middle

for a million any biz school grad could have given you the same plan

listen if the guy who owns the dealer makes 5 mil and you 100k u don't care, cause it's all a private deal issue, now if the dealer said, hey, we are all a team we all have ownership thru 401k's, health care, our union, and u get in trouble and he takes bonuses while u take pay cut, what will u do

you'll stick it out, and do the least amount of work to keep you're job because if the guy at the top don't walk the walk and talk the talk you know it is all bullshyte, and when bullshyte is everywhere, you go into foxhole mode, fu everyone else, i will act like the ceo , ie, it's all about me

[3Vandoo]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

"While we're still the U.S. sales leader, we acknowledge we have disappointed you," the ad said. "At times we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry standards and our designs became lackluster."
The unsigned open letter, entitled "GM's Commitment to the American People" ran in the trade journal Automotive News, which is widely read by industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders.
In the ad, GM admits to other strategic missteps analysts and critics have said hastened its recent decline.
"We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where we lost adequate focus on the core U.S. market," the ad said. "We also biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs."

[trip]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

lol, see dave, there u go again, doubting me, like vandoo posts, they now openly admit they puked up the trust factor left and right

and

WITHOUT TRUST THE BEST U CAN DO IS COMPROMISE

which means it is now all in the hands of time, from here on out if they do the right things right things will happen, if they don't, just more of the same

[3Vandoo]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

Yes but Dave is right

Ford brought some great improvement, same as GM on some models

but it is too late, like Ive told you why the European were getting kickass cars , and here crap for years

because they knew American would buy american,

[daved150]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

first of all the post was about his comments to congress inregards to mexico!! i wasnt arguing the fact that wagner fuked up!!! never did. i get the automotive news and seen the open appology letter. yea...he says they fuked up...NO SHYT? we were discussing the executives pay and the fact that you cant hire anyone competitive for penny's on the dollar, then we were discussing fukin mexico and his comments about that, now we're going into the fact of wether he (wagner) fuked up or not? i dont see where that was EVER a question...yep...he fuked up! so, back to my point...
if they launch him, can they replace him with a ceo for 1mil a year? 5mil a year? what do you think trip? you seem to have implyed that they (all the ceo's) were grossly over paid and they (the boards) could hire someone better to stear the ship for a few mil. i wasnt in agreement...i think they (ALL THE CEO'S AT ALL THE BIG CORP'S) are grossly over paid, and to get one, previouse to now, you had to pay up!! am i wrong?
and i do get 401k, health care and at some places proffit sharing. and my bosses did get bonus's when i didnt...too fukin bad! thats the way it goes...when i got to his posistion, it worked out the same! so what would i do, is work my ass off and swing for his job! the last dealer that i ran the usedcar dept was bleeding money out the newcar dept. but, the usedcar dept was rockin!! i got bonus...my people got bonus...my owner and acting gm took bonus...new cars sucked dust! thats the way it goes!
also...i've openly said they (all the big3) put there efforts into suv's and truck sales...more proffitable and the american buyer was eating them up...no one seen this coming. no-one knew that gas was gonna go stupid and the buyers needs would change so rapidly..ford didnt either...they mortgaged the house for 26billion and it proved to be a good move. they were able to react to a market that changed overnight faster...i wouldnt run the banner up on the brilliantcy of malloy so quick.

[trip]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

dave,

it is belief systesms, if everyone beliefs this is what u have too pay, then the boards say oh, let's go with the flow, we will pay too

boards are just a different good old boy network

my point is, yes, it can be done, will it be done

now, has it been done anywhere, u betcha, airline ceo's, no glory there, 3 years ago it finally reached upward, they could no longer take money out of workers or suppliers, and management all took the hits

how are airlines today, well, it's a messy situation still, yet, for the most part every employee and i mean every employee are now working toward the same purpose and goal

airlines have another five years to finally be out of pain

i guess my point is, in real life these things take 7-10 years to get worked out because of the size and complexity

what got you too this point, ideas and thinking will not get u out

imho, the whole care biz is now at that point

[pigmeat]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

dave, they need to get back to promoting brass from within....if you bring a guy up through the ranks, he makes ceo, it will be inline with what he has made his whole career......no need to go out recruiting ceo's..they need to bring up there own

[daved150]

Re: Big Three Seek $34 Billion Aid

dave, they need to get back to promoting brass from within....if you bring a guy up through the ranks, he makes ceo, it will be inline with what he has made his whole career......no need to go out recruiting ceo's..they need to bring up there own

actually the most sence made to the argument!! i agree 100% i do think that way, so i dont know wtf i was thinking!! thanks pig