ron paul on iran

[trip]

Re: ron paul on iran

where did i say war was immoral?

[Klash]

Re: ron paul on iran

where did i say war was immoral?

You say you don't believe in war! I just assumed that you believe wars actually exist and that you meant you disagreed with them because they "are good for death and destruction". Your words suggest you think war is immoral. So, quit dodging the questions above..

[Phreak]

Re: ron paul on iran

Your forgetting a couple variables. If Israel strikes Iran, America will have her back but this won't be an assault comparable to Iraq - there will be no ground invasion. Iran will be left impotent within a week, if that long, and the strait of Hormuz will be stable, probably bringing the price of oil down. A strike on Iran would probably benefit the western civilizations.

When you don't do what is right because of the risk - that is a lack of integrity. We didn't ask for a dictator who doesn't recognize even the most fundamental of human rights to threaten those civilizations that do with WMD's. We have not provoked a war with Iran - they have provoked one with us and the sooner we get it over with the sooner our economy will de-pressurize.

Yeah, Bush is an idiot and has mismanaged the war in Iraq but to associate all war with the stubbornness of Bush in Iraq, is a major error in judgment.

Klash,,

the point i was trying to make is--

the speculators on wall street will capitalize on the situation and raise the price of crude. up to 50% of the cost of a barrel of oil is from speculation alone. i am sure you are aware of this; but it not do a quick search as it is common knowledge. without the speculator's influence, a barrel of oil would cost somewhere around $75 today.

whether or not the strait of hormuz is stable is not the deciding factor here- a conflict with iran is all the speculators need to drive the price up.

we had all better hope for a peaceful solution to the situation or we will suffer at a very high level, while the wall street boys clean house, as they have been doing all along.

[trip]

Re: ron paul on iran

Wars being immoral, i don't understand, and I am not kidding, to me that is like saying a tornado is immoral.

I'll try and answer it this way, and if u feel i'm dodging it, i'll try again, jsut let me know.

At the scrappy age of 30 in 1978 I was studying karate with a friend who was a black belt, we were doing now what is called mma.

Two other friends, one an ex defensive lineman from the univ of miami and another friend who almost went pro in baseball as a catcher......both had knee problems........we went too NYCity for New Years Eve in Times Square.

We met a dozen other folks in the city
ate and then walked to times square. Around 10pm, people started coming in waves. Around 11pm we were literally and figuratively sardines. I'd say we were 100 feet from the base of the building where the ball dropped.

So, us the sardines wiated and watched, while we did, dozens of little black kids 13-15 would weave there way in and out of the crowd, now at first i thought, wtf, are this kids doing. Then after about the 4-5th one squeezed by, I was like oh shit, these kids are picking pockets. What can u do, ur a sardine, nada, nothing.

Now, i'm sure you've heard the stories about people being crushed too death in crowds, back then the big story was 11 kids at a Who Concert in Ohio.

Of course u think, how the heck can that happen.

And as soon as the ball dropped, I'd say 2-3 minutes later, all of a sudden like a title wave the people in front of use fell back into us with this mass of power, don't forget we had about 20 of us, and it was each man and women for yourself, the back of the person in front of u was an immovable force pushing so hard on u u could not push back, u could only fall backwards into the person behind u, and hope too heck u did not fall down cause u would be crushed.

I'd say, that lasted about 2 minutes until the force was dissappated enough u felt secure in your balance and confident u could keep moving backwards without falling.

So, five minutes later were walking in the middle of the street, and all of a sudden like moses parts the red sea the crowd parts and there is a 30 foot circle and in the middle of the circle is a dozen black teenagers ages 13-16 on one side of the circle and 3 white kids 16-17 on the other side.

So, here's the scene, 500 people standing on the sidelines watching with baited breathe, 3 of the guys i'm with are ex college jocks, and me, i'm all of 170 lbs at 6-1".

Without hesitation I walked into the middle of the circle and looked at the black kids, I turned my back to them and looked at the white kids and said, "I will not allow u too fight them. You're out numbered 3-1, and I know your tough and I know your not scared. And here's something I don't know, I don't know what those other guys have in there pockets, guns, knives. You think you're at a fair fight, you're horribly mistaken, just turn around and go."

And they took there deep breaths, sense came into there minds and they turned around and walked.

Then I turned to the black kids, and asked them if they still wanted to fight.

Of course they didn't so they drifted into the crowd.

Sometimes life happens in a moment, moments u can't control, and moments u can. If u know what u stand for.

[trip]

Re: ron paul on iran

Sorry, I was 20, there's no button to rewrite.

[Klash]

Re: ron paul on iran

whether or not the strait of hormuz is stable is not the deciding factor here- a conflict with iran is all the speculators need to drive the price up.

The phrase "drive the price up" implies collusion or conspiracy on behalf of speculators playing the futures market which is not happening. Buying futures is risky and if/when the American military takes control of the strait of Hormuz and other strategical positions in the region this could cause confidence and stability in the region and probably drive the futures down. IMO, that is more likely - it is the unknown that typically causes oil to go up.

[trip]

Re: ron paul on iran

One more time klash, the master market players know there market history.

War: Buy commodities, why, they will be in short supply.

Market Masters know as the price goes up u buy more, why, cause you're leveraged 2-10 times too one and as the price goes up, u make lot's more money.

The Master of the Market knows, the country who goes too war will need gobs of money, thus u short there currency.

So, now u have a hedge on, Long Commodities, Short The Currency.

U sit on your hands and see what developes.

So far, it is working beautifully for them.

Next week the good old us dollar will probably hit a, hold ur hat, a 30 year low, and oil will go over 150 a barrell.

[Klash]

Re: ron paul on iran

Wars being immoral, i don't understand, and I am not kidding, to me that is like saying a tornado is immoral.

Morality requires the ability to choose. Men choose to go to war. Tornado's do not choose anything - they are not conscious.

I'll try and answer it this way, and if u feel i'm dodging it, i'll try again, jsut let me know.

At the scrappy age of 30 in 1978 I was studying karate with a friend who was a black belt, we were doing now what is called mma.

Two other friends, one an ex defensive lineman from the univ of miami and another friend who almost went pro in baseball as a catcher......both had knee problems........we went too NYCity for New Years Eve in Times Square.

We met a dozen other folks in the city
ate and then walked to times square. Around 10pm, people started coming in waves. Around 11pm we were literally and figuratively sardines. I'd say we were 100 feet from the base of the building where the ball dropped.

So, us the sardines wiated and watched, while we did, dozens of little black kids 13-15 would weave there way in and out of the crowd, now at first i thought, wtf, are this kids doing. Then after about the 4-5th one squeezed by, I was like oh shit, these kids are picking pockets. What can u do, ur a sardine, nada, nothing.

Now, i'm sure you've heard the stories about people being crushed too death in crowds, back then the big story was 11 kids at a Who Concert in Ohio.

Of course u think, how the heck can that happen.

And as soon as the ball dropped, I'd say 2-3 minutes later, all of a sudden like a title wave the people in front of use fell back into us with this mass of power, don't forget we had about 20 of us, and it was each man and women for yourself, the back of the person in front of u was an immovable force pushing so hard on u u could not push back, u could only fall backwards into the person behind u, and hope too heck u did not fall down cause u would be crushed.

I'd say, that lasted about 2 minutes until the force was dissappated enough u felt secure in your balance and confident u could keep moving backwards without falling.

So, five minutes later were walking in the middle of the street, and all of a sudden like moses parts the red sea the crowd parts and there is a 30 foot circle and in the middle of the circle is a dozen black teenagers ages 13-16 on one side of the circle and 3 white kids 16-17 on the other side.

So, here's the scene, 500 people standing on the sidelines watching with baited breathe, 3 of the guys i'm with are ex college jocks, and me, i'm all of 170 lbs at 6-1".

Without hesitation I walked into the middle of the circle and looked at the black kids, I turned my back to them and looked at the white kids and said, "I will not allow u too fight them. You're out numbered 3-1, and I know your tough and I know your not scared. And here's something I don't know, I don't know what those other guys have in there pockets, guns, knives. You think you're at a fair fight, you're horribly mistaken, just turn around and go."

And they took there deep breaths, sense came into there minds and they turned around and walked.

Then I turned to the black kids, and asked them if they still wanted to fight.

Of course they didn't so they drifted into the crowd.

Sometimes life happens in a moment, moments u can't control, and moments u can. If u know what u stand for.

Seriously trip, I love that story man. You obviously have had some confidence in your words for some time and that was cool of you for saving those guys from a inevitable a$$ beating but are you trying to suggest peace can always be mediated and negotiated?

If so, I don't think so. Lets take the black kids and give them the mentality of
Ahmadinejad (because they have the numbers) and so they are hell bent on the destruction of the three white kids (Israel). One side will eventually have to be physically defeated. Because even though the white kids don't care that the blacks exist the blacks will not let the whites exist. There is nothing that can be said to resolve the conflict, because the mentality of Ahmadinejad makes war inevitable.

[Phreak]

Re: ron paul on iran

ahmadenijad is not the ruler of iran. he cannot make the call to go to war. he has said the things he has said (like wiping israel off the face of the map) to gain political favor in the middle east. he has no chance of doing so either; israel has over 300 nukes and a military second only to the US. i am not saying that iran is a pushover, but they would have little chance of victory in a war with israel.

these are political games that the speculators on wall street are using to make money.

don't get me wrong klash, i hope you are right. i just don't see it happening.

[trip]

Re: ron paul on iran

War created by other men to me is just like a tornado.

Something I have no control over, and or influence.

I only have one thing on my side, my choice in how i will respond.

I did not suggest peace can always be mediated or negotiated.

I am on the side of never stop trying or quiting to accomplish that goal.

That goal can be achieved before the war, or it will be achieved after the war. So, in my eys it always get's there in the end. And what do u get in the middle, not anything i want or would wish on anyone.

Here is another story. A girl i dated for several months moved away cause she had some problems and i did not hear from her for a few years, then one day i get a card in the mail, a greeting, she calls me up a few months later and we chat a few times, she's coming up in my area too see a friend and we agree to meet at my place and then go out to dinner, we will take seperate cars cause we both have plans.

She get's to my place, and her problems had been drinking, she had been sober for a year. I open my door and she has half a six pack of tall boys in her hands, and it's obvious the three she drank on the way up hit her hard.

Now, she comes in we chat real quick, and i say i gotta take a shower, she follows me into my bedroom and says, "You, know, sometimes u just really pisse me off to the point i wan too kill u."

I kinda joke it off, and usher her into the living room and shut my bedroom door. Then I shut my bathroom door and take a quick shower, the whole time poopin in my pants, wtf does she have in that big ass purse, a gun?

Now, i'm dressed acting all friendly and i walk her out too her car and open her door.

She asks, where are we going.

I say, "No one threatens my life. No one. U are going to get in that car and leave and i never want too see or here from u again. I will forever assume that u may do me harm in the future. So, stay away."

Now of course i get the usual protests, of just kidding.

I let it go on a minute or so. And say, "Kid or not, that is a line in my life that is never ever crossed. And if u respect me u respect my line, etc. etc.

My point of both stories is this, u read my words and my believes and assume some type of weakness.

How I play it, is I focus on folks strengths, and what they can do.

Folks are concerned about living in a dangerous world. And fear this and that.

In my world, we've always been there and have never left it, and will probably not in my life time.

[straydoglogic]

Re: ron paul on iran

ahmadenijad is not the ruler of iran. he cannot make the call to go to war. he has said the things he has said (like wiping israel off the face of the map) to gain political favor in the middle east. he has no chance of doing so either; israel has over 300 nukes and a military second only to the US. i am not saying that iran is a pushover, but they would have little chance of victory in a war with israel.

these are political games that the speculators on wall street are using to make money.

don't get me wrong klash, i hope you are right. i just don't see it happening.

youre exactly tight phreak..and hes losing political ground..their elections are coming soon and it doesnt look good for him..so maybe god news is on its way...

[Klash]

Re: ron paul on iran

ahmadenijad is not the ruler of iran. he cannot make the call to go to war. he has said the things he has said (like wiping israel off the face of the map) to gain political favor in the middle east. he has no chance of doing so either; israel has over 300 nukes and a military second only to the US. i am not saying that iran is a pushover, but they would have little chance of victory in a war with israel.

these are political games that the speculators on wall street are using to make money.

don't get me wrong klash, i hope you are right. i just don't see it happening.

The reason he says it, I am sure means little to Israel - it is provocative. If someone threatens my life; I don't really care if they are just trying to look tough for their friends. Considering that fact that Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah aren't very rational should be taken into context too - remember they have also said they are trying to transition the world for the twelfth imam. So their goal is not victory but to bring about the end days; and they honor martyrdom. So judging them by their own words it is easy to conclude they are provocative and psychotic and their words should be taken seriously.