Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

[Klash]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

all i gotta say is listen to his speech today

to lead u must understand


wheat u must understand is how people feel and why, and that u rarely ever lead

today he stood up and led, i'm proud of him, his speech inspired me, i want a more perfect union, not a 100 year war

Your focus is limited on leading and not the results of that leading. Obama is a wordsmith without substance. So yeah, he will convince many people to follow him but they will lead America further down the wrong path; further from the more perfect union that you desire - unless your idea of a more perfect union is a growing central government, with a weakened military, infringing individual liberties more and more.

Obama understands how people feel and why but that does not change the fact his ideals are not rational at obtaining a more free society. Liberalism will not lead us into a more perfect union it will only infringe and blur our liberties more.

[trip]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

i cannot predict the future, for some reason most folks think they can

he is doing all the right things, better than anyone i have ever seen in public life, thus based on my experience and knowledge i will ride the horse until i see reason not too

my focus is not limited imho it is more encompassing than most

his campaign was at a critical point, for 16 months he said nada about race, gender, divisiveness etc., today he stood up and laid down his vision, this is what happens along a journey folks will try and divide u, do what ever they can to stop you, out of fear, ignorance, envy, the only response is to re-enforce the visions, where we are going and why and how we will get there

i'm a kiss guy

unitied we stand, divided we fall, obama

let's have a war for 100 years, mccain

let's all be co-dependent, hillary

it's pretty simple for me

the only rresults of his leadership so far are thus:

a. registered more voters than any campaign
b. registered and envigorated young voters, more than any campaign in history
c. raised more money
d. has run a better campaign than any other
e. had the best plan and strategy and has executed
f. has picked his battles wisely, and timed his momentum

a wordsmith without substance, heck i don't know the guy only what i see and hear, i don't see a lack of substance in any of the things above, last i checked he was a fellow american and it is his right to campaign and have a vision for this country, u can do it also if you want

have u ever met anyone from europe, they think are form of freedom is weird because it leaves too many behind, i'm not saying they are right, just that there is more than one way to play the drum

imho, where we are at now is a crucioal point in our history, we need a new path for the middle class, for 100 years it was manufacturing, now it's what "serve someone" , imho that will take the united states as a whole to tackle the problem, in the past it happened over time due to our resources, our constitution, and our money, and this point and time imho, we have to be wiser

[Klash]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

i cannot predict the future, for some reason most folks think they can

Bro, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to recognize that more liberalism is going to lead to more government, less freedom and more social dependency on government and Obama doesn't change that.

he is doing all the right things, better than anyone i have ever seen in public life, thus based on my experience and knowledge i will ride the horse until i see reason not too

my focus is not limited imho it is more encompassing than most

his campaign was at a critical point, for 16 months he said nada about race, gender, divisiveness etc., today he stood up and laid down his vision, this is what happens along a journey folks will try and divide u, do what ever they can to stop you, out of fear, ignorance, envy, the only response is to re-enforce the visions, where we are going and why and how we will get there

i'm a kiss guy

What's that have to do with Obama? Are you drinking again...

I think people have an extremely valid concern of Obama. He excuses his pastors bigotry but calls for Imus to be fired back in 07' and there is plenty more that has yet to be focused on, because the media has taken a soft approach to him.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude." April 2007 ~Barack Obama

unitied we stand, divided we fall, obama

let's have a war for 100 years, mccain

let's all be co-dependent, hillary

it's pretty simple for me

the only rresults of his leadership so far are thus:

a. registered more voters than any campaign
b. registered and envigorated young voters, more than any campaign in history
c. raised more money
d. has run a better campaign than any other
e. had the best plan and strategy and has executed
f. has picked his battles wisely, and timed his momentum

a wordsmith without substance, heck i don't know the guy only what i see and hear, i don't see a lack of substance in any of the things above, last i checked he was a fellow american and it is his right to campaign and have a vision for this country, u can do it also if you want

His campaign has not been challenged like most campaigns are. He has been given a pass. So the success of his campaign is an attribute of it not being challenged, also.

have u ever met anyone from europe, they think are form of freedom is weird because it leaves too many behind, i'm not saying they are right, just that there is more than one way to play the drum


imho, where we are at now is a crucioal point in our history, we need a new path for the middle class, for 100 years it was manufacturing, now it's what "serve someone" , imho that will take the united states as a whole to tackle the problem, in the past it happened over time due to our resources, our constitution, and our money, and this point and time imho, we have to be wiser

This is where I vehemently disagree with you. Individuals are either an advocate of freedom or they are not. You cannot say I support freedom and then support a system of government that limits it. You do not support freedom, you support government enforced economic equality which opposes freedom. The form of government you support is unclear but it is a form of statism, e.g fascism, socialism, Communism, etc. but it is definitely not individual freedom you support. I was under the impression you valued freedom and supported Obama, which made no sense to me at all; now you make sense to me.

[trip]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

Listen, I have a totally different view then u.

Changes happen over 70 year cycles, approximately 2 generations, if u study history it is clear as the sun.

IMHO, the main problem is a clear path of advancement for the middle class, that is imho we need to address now, and we need to be united on this issue, period end of my story, imho, obama see's this and that is where he is going, similar to king who focused on all men are created equal, which now, 50 years later, 1.5 generations has gotten us alot closer than we have ever been, and is getting better, and we still work on it today. I see obama as setting an agenda, a vision, a focus for the future.

If we could instill, after equality:

A. Integrity, a high regard for the truth and the upholding of standards.
B. Going the extra mile.
C. Constant and never ending education and improvement in all area's of life.

As a country going forward we can and will take on all challenges and succeed.

With those agenda's set forward, and embraced, imho, the natural progression to more freedoms, and not becoming the worlds savior will be our destiny.

Ron Paul had more success with libertarianism than any candidate in history. As I've said before, it needs too rebrand the party, Freedom Party, and find a better spokesperson. If that happens 20 years from now, the libertarian movement presently is about 30 years old, if u go back to when it was first nationalized and some folks were elected.

Thus, 20 years from now, some college kid maybe who helped ron paul, will get elected to become a governor of a large state, and hopefully have success, and thus, 20 years hence a legit chance at the presidency for a different candidate.

On a side note, obama was a constitutional law professor, and if u have listened to him he has brought it up on a few issues a time or two, i like his substance.

I'm sorry u don't understand me, it is just that having helped people for years I factually know what works and doesn't, and how long things take and why.

[solidground]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

This is where I vehemently disagree with you. Individuals are either an advocate of freedom or they are not. You cannot say I support freedom and then support a system of government that limits it. You do not support freedom, you support government enforced economic equality which opposes freedom. The form of government you support is unclear but it is a form of statism, e.g fascism, socialism, Communism, etc. but it is definitely not individual freedom you support. I was under the impression you valued freedom and supported Obama, which made no sense to me at all; now you make sense to me.

i have this argument with people all the time-- so true

[horsepwr]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

I don't understand how people can be so pro freedom and Ron Paul, and on the other hand, an absolute one-eighty and think that a liberal direction would be good. That's polar opposites.

[trip]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

imho, the best opportunity is the best leader

please name all of the books u folks have read on freedom and how it works, i'd like too educate myself

[trip]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

for u guys, my favorite is"

The Competitive Advantage of Nations
by Michael E. Porter

[Klash]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

Freedom is a result of egoism and egoism is a result of reason.

The best book I could recommend to anyone to help clear the fog of our pragmatic culture is "Philosophy: Who Needs It?" by Ayn Rand
If your thinking, I hate books on philosophy, it's probably because most philosophy books you have read have had miles of circular logic in them making them extremely difficult to follow.

but...
if you want to deal strictly with freedom, I would recommend:
"Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal" same author.

[Klash]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

Oh yeah, another good one is:
Economics in one lesson by Henry Hazlitt (sp)

[trip]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

ayn rand, hmmmmmm, i've read her, in a perfect world, yet, people's reasonings are not perfect they are emotional, not logical, thus, i understand her i just didn't think she understood people

i'll check out hazlitt and capitalism, the unkown ideal

thanks

[Klash]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

ayn rand, hmmmmmm, i've read her, in a perfect world, yet, people's reasonings are not perfect they are emotional, not logical, thus, i understand her i just didn't think she understood people

If people's reasonings are based on emotion and not logical - then they are not reasoning are they? To dismiss logic because of your perception, that in general people aren't (logical), is suggesting rational thought is dependent on the majority; it isn't. A person with a rational philosophy understands people with an irrational philosophy better than they understand themselves; read Atlas Shrugged, it reads as a parody on our current, liberal political movements.

[daved150]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

klash...what do you do for a living, if you dont mind me asking?

[BIGMOFO]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

MY TAKE ON IT...IF THINGS ARE SO BAD HERE...GO BACK TO AFRICA...IF YOU CANT SPEAK ENGISH GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM. I AM SICK OF HEARING HOW PEOPLE HATE HOW THINGS ARE HERE...STOP BIOTCHIN AND GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM AND SHUT THA PHUCK UP!!!!! I AM SICK OF ALL THIS SHIOT NOW DAYS.

[Klash]

Re: Obama's pastor (for nearly 20 years)

klash...what do you do for a living, if you dont mind me asking?

I'm in the real estate industry. Why, what are you thinking?