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  • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

    From Wikipedia:


    His Dark Materials

    Philip Pullman signing a copy of The Amber SpyglassHis Dark Materials consists of Northern Lights (titled The Golden Compass in North America), The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass. The first volume of the trilogy, "Northern Lights", won the Carnegie Medal for children's fiction in the UK in 1995. The Amber Spyglass, the last volume, was awarded both 2001 Whitbread Prize for best children's book and the Whitbread Book of the Year prize in January 2002, the first children's book to receive that award. The series won popular acclaim in late 2003, taking third place in the BBC's Big Read poll. Pullman has written a companion piece to the trilogy entitled, Lyra's Oxford, and has planned two more. These are the soon-to-be-published Once Upon a Time in the North and the as-yet-unwritten The Book of Dust, which is tentatively set for release in 2009.

    In 2005 Pullman was announced as joint winner of the Astrid Lindgren Memorial Award for children's literature.


    [edit] Religious perspective
    Pullman is a supporter of the British Humanist Association and an Honorary Associate of the National Secular Society. New Yorker journalist Laura Miller has described Pullman as one of England's most outspoken atheists.[5]

    The His Dark Materials books have been controversial with some Christian groups. Peter Hitchens has argued that Pullman actively pursues an anti-Christian agenda.[6] In support of this contention, he cites an interview in which Pullman is quoted as saying: "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."[7] In the same interview, Pullman also "acknowledge(s) that a controversy would be likely to boost sales. But I'm not in the business of offending people. I find the books upholding certain values that I think are important. Such as that this life is immensely valuable. And that this world is an extraordinarily beautiful place, and we should do what we can to increase the amount of wisdom in the world'."[7]

    Hitchens views the His Dark Materials series as a direct rebuttal of C. S. Lewis's series.[8] Although Pullman has criticized C. S. Lewis's series The Chronicles of Narnia as religious propaganda, the two series have several things in common. Both feature children facing adult moral choices, talking animals, religious allegories, parallel worlds, and concern the ultimate fate of those worlds. The first published Narnia book, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, begins with a young girl hiding in a wardrobe, as does the first His Dark Materials book, Northern Lights/The Golden Compass.

    Literary critic Alan Jacobs (of Wheaton College) argues that in his recasting of John Milton's trilogy, Pullman replaces a theist world-view with a Rousseauist one.[9] However, Pullman has found support from other Christians, most notably Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury. These groups and individuals contend that Pullman's negative portrayal of the "Church" in His Dark Materials amounts to an attack on dogmatism and the use of religion to oppress, not on Christianity itself. Dr. Williams has gone so far as to propose that His Dark Materials be taught as part of religious education in schools. Moreover, authors of works dedicated to critical appraisals of religious themes in his writing have described Pullman as a friendly and generous debating partner[10].

    Other Christian writers, such as Kurt Bruner and Jim Ware, while finding his anti-Christian position troubling, "also uncover spiritual themes within the books, which, like shafts of light, break through an otherwise gloomy universe—despite Pullman’s best efforts to keep them out. In the end, the authors argue that Pullman offers an unwitting tribute to the God he intended to discredit."[11] in their book Shedding Light on His Dark Materials.

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    • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

      I want to thank you guys for more or less making me pour over as much material as I can find. Objective material I might add. The more I read the more I study the more I KNOW a Creator is responsible for all of this. I am going to give my case very shortly but in the interim I would like to know a few things from Klash and Mandarb.

      First I would like to know if you deny God or don't believe in God at all?

      Next, what do youbelieve is the cause of all of this? What is responsible for life?

      We are throwing my viewpoints out there to disect but I don't know exactly where you guys stand.

      Comment


      • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

        Originally posted by Klash View Post
        Yeah, that is what your suppose to do but those of faith do not come to their conclusions by analyzing data. They come to their conclusions based on some other delusional desire and then collect what they believe is the best data to support their conclusions - if this wasn't what they did they would'nt have a philosophy based on faith.
        That is just inaccurate. Lee Stroebel was an atheist with a journalism degree and a law degree from Yale. After being assigned to a story in West Virginia about protests over text books containing the theory of evolution he decided to once and for all compile all the evidence to put to rest the existence of God. He would then write a book explaining why there is no God. The more he uncovered the more he realized God is real.

        He started out as a skeptic atheist and is now a Christian. Not only did he realized God is real through science but went on to determine Christ is Messiah using the evidence.

        Some minds are analytical. Some need facts. How you become a follower is of no concern. Some can take a blind leap which is fine, some have to analyize the water they are jumping in to. No matter how they get there the end result is the same.

        Comment


        • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

          Originally posted by Scalleywag View Post
          I want to thank you guys for more or less making me pour over as much material as I can find. Objective material I might add. The more I read the more I study the more I KNOW a Creator is responsible for all of this. I am going to give my case very shortly but in the interim I would like to know a few things from Klash and Mandarb.

          First I would like to know if you deny God or don't believe in God at all?

          Next, what do youbelieve is the cause of all of this? What is responsible for life?

          We are throwing my viewpoints out there to disect but I don't know exactly where you guys stand.
          No worries I do not mind sharing my personal ideas. To the first question, to deny something that I do not believe in is one in the same really. It is no different than me asking you if you deny or don't believe in the tooth fairy. To me it is just another of the many, many myths that humanity has created, it is as simple as that.

          Second, the cause of all of what? Life, existence, conciousness? I would say random chance, if I have to pin it down to one thing. It is like the lottery although the chances of winning are extremely slim (less then the chance of getting struck by lightening) it still happens. I do not see a over reaching conciousness, as if I look at the world and all the horrible things in it, then if I had to say there was a creator that creator is itself either to weak to fix things or is corrupt itself to allow things to be the way that they are. But that is neither here nor there, as we humans are responsible for ourselves.

          And the stories of Athiests becoming Christians are few and far between, but Christians like to make big points of them. A famous story about a collegue of Tolkien and Lewis who was an athiest and was walking outside with both of them debating heard the wind blow through the trees and became a believer in God! What does that mean? I don't know but it sure makes a great story.

          That is great that this debate has got you to delve deeper into study, that is always a good thing. I look forward to reading the evidence you present as well, I am just skeptical that any of it will hold up to scrutiny as I have searched for just such evidence for many years now and you know my position!


          I looked up this Lee Stroebel fellow you mentioned, it seems that he makes alot of money for becoming a Christian, you can book him as guest speaker, he has his own television program, wrote two works, the case for Christ and the Case for faith. You know there is a old saying that if you ever want to be rich, get into religion. It sure seems to e the case. Lots of people that know me personnally have always told me I would make a wonderful minister! lol





          I remember quite a few years ago a very religious friend of mine I met while working during university in the summer was becoming a minister. We debated back and forth and he finally gave me a whole series of video tapes on creationism saying this will convince me. Within a couple minutes the speaker, who addressed the audience like he was doing a sermon, not like one does a seminar or lecture, spoke of how the serrated teeth of a T-Rex was actually for eating plants! Therefore since the earth was only 6000 years old dinosaurs and humans co-existed! Wow.....I shut off the tape and gave it back to my friend and went on to explain the simpilest difference between the teeth of a herbovoire and a carnovoire. And yet many people watched that same series and it helped to confirm their beleifs! That is scary to me that anyone could swallow that stuff, but people do. The faithful will grasp at anything to confirm their beliefs.

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          • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

            I just wanted to put this out there, as I don't think most people even understand what it means to be an athiest, so I ask this of all people that believe in any religion.

            Why do you not believe in all the other thousands of religions that exist or have existed?

            Comment


            • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

              Originally posted by mandarb11 View Post
              I just wanted to put this out there, as I don't think most people even understand what it means to be an athiest, so I ask this of all people that believe in any religion.

              Why do you not believe in all the other thousands of religions that exist or have existed?
              i prolly dont understand what it means to be a athiest completly, but i dont think any religion is 100% right or wrong (except sceintology...how the fuk did l.ron hubbord get a fukin religion??!!) i have my own religious belief's that fall mostly in line with catholic's but not completly...i belong to the church of dave. you can join...we're pretty open minded. just send money
              HE WHO MAKES A BEAST OF HIMSELF, GET'S RID OF THE PAIN OF BEING A MAN!!


              http://www.infinitymuscle.com/forum.php







              "Actually for once your actually starting sound quite logical!"-djdiggler 07/10/2007

              I LOVE BOOBOOKITTY...

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              • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                Originally posted by daved150 View Post
                i prolly dont understand what it means to be a athiest completly, but i dont think any religion is 100% right or wrong (except sceintology...how the fuk did l.ron hubbord get a fukin religion??!!) i have my own religious belief's that fall mostly in line with catholic's but not completly...i belong to the church of dave. you can join...we're pretty open minded. just send money
                Lol I don't think anyone is completely dogmatic towards any religion, we all like to incorporate our own experiences/ideas into what we believe. You are corect in that scientology crap, best way to get rich fast. This is feeding off of peoples need for answers and meaning. People will always turn to the person or people that claim to know the truth, dispite what their common sense tells them. How can anyone believe in th teachings of scientology? A science fiction writer just makes up whatever he wants (about aliens souls causing problems for us), and people soak it up! In a few hundred years if that religion still exists then it will be like any other in the sense that it will now have a traditional background and there will be generations of people raised to follow it. Scary, I say. To me it is a statement of how far society has turned away from reason!

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                • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                  here's the reason why scientology rules:

                  http://defamer.com/344987/the-tom-c...e?autoplay=true


                  so fresh and so clean clean




                  Comment


                  • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                    Originally posted by mandarb11 View Post
                    Lol I don't think anyone is completely dogmatic towards any religion, we all like to incorporate our own experiences/ideas into what we believe. You are corect in that scientology crap, best way to get rich fast. This is feeding off of peoples need for answers and meaning. People will always turn to the person or people that claim to know the truth, dispite what their common sense tells them. How can anyone believe in th teachings of scientology? A science fiction writer just makes up whatever he wants (about aliens souls causing problems for us), and people soak it up! In a few hundred years if that religion still exists then it will be like any other in the sense that it will now have a traditional background and there will be generations of people raised to follow it. Scary, I say. To me it is a statement of how far society has turned away from reason!
                    ohhh...you little sneaky fuker!!! you didnt think i'd catch that did you...your coming at me with all that.."see, that's how it started back in the day...now look at it" angle...ohh, your a tricky dic, you are!! you's a fast one...not fast enough, but fast!!
                    HE WHO MAKES A BEAST OF HIMSELF, GET'S RID OF THE PAIN OF BEING A MAN!!


                    http://www.infinitymuscle.com/forum.php







                    "Actually for once your actually starting sound quite logical!"-djdiggler 07/10/2007

                    I LOVE BOOBOOKITTY...

                    Comment


                    • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                      phreak, cruise is the biggest dumbass going!! my wife likes him and i WAIL on how fukin stupid he is!! aliens and theons and c-orgs, what the fuk is wrong with that fool??!!
                      HE WHO MAKES A BEAST OF HIMSELF, GET'S RID OF THE PAIN OF BEING A MAN!!


                      http://www.infinitymuscle.com/forum.php







                      "Actually for once your actually starting sound quite logical!"-djdiggler 07/10/2007

                      I LOVE BOOBOOKITTY...

                      Comment


                      • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                        Originally posted by Scalleywag View Post
                        I want to thank you guys for more or less making me pour over as much material as I can find. Objective material I might add. The more I read the more I study the more I KNOW a Creator is responsible for all of this. I am going to give my case very shortly but in the interim I would like to know a few things from Klash and Mandarb.

                        First I would like to know if you deny God or don't believe in God at all?

                        The premise of your questions implies that god exists. I deny peoples ideas of a god. I do not deny a god because they are only ideas [of gods], that is what I deny - irratinal ideas.

                        I have built my philosophy in accordance with reality by finding contradictions in my beliefs and finding the error that led to that contradiction, i.e. I submit to reasoning. That is why I like these conversatinos so much, they help me find those contradictions.


                        Originally posted by Scalleywag View Post
                        Next, what do you believe is the cause of all of this? What is responsible for life?

                        My hypothesis for our existence is some form of an omniverse that has always been, in which our universe is a part of and in which man evolved from but just because that is the conclusion I have came to with my very limited knowledge does not mean I will state that it is a fact, it is speculation.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                          Originally posted by Klash View Post
                          The premise of your questions implies that god exists. I deny peoples ideas of a god. I do not deny a god because they are only ideas [of gods], that is what I deny - irratinal ideas.

                          I have built my philosophy in accordance with reality by finding contradictions in my beliefs and finding the error that led to that contradiction, i.e. I submit to reasoning. That is why I like these conversatinos so much, they help me find those contradictions.





                          My hypothesis for our existence is some form of an omniverse that has always been, in which our universe is a part of and in which man evolved from but just because that is the conclusion I have came to with my very limited knowledge does not mean I will state that it is a fact, it is speculation.
                          wew...that was close...for a minute i thaught i was gonna have to tell ya your wrong. at least you admit you very well could be full of shyt and just taking a guess. good for you bro!
                          HE WHO MAKES A BEAST OF HIMSELF, GET'S RID OF THE PAIN OF BEING A MAN!!


                          http://www.infinitymuscle.com/forum.php







                          "Actually for once your actually starting sound quite logical!"-djdiggler 07/10/2007

                          I LOVE BOOBOOKITTY...

                          Comment


                          • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                            Originally posted by daved150 View Post
                            wew...that was close...for a minute i thaught i was gonna have to tell ya your wrong. at least you admit you very well could be full of shyt and just taking a guess. good for you bro!
                            I could be wrong but it would not be as far off as some magical being that created the world and then whispering in some guys ear the truth about it all. I'm stating from what we know, some form of an ever existing environment would make the most since but I have not filed it away in my mind as a belief, it is still in the unproven folder. Unlike many theists, who believe in the revelation of god, who claim they are right because the whisperee wrote a book about it all.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                              Originally posted by Klash View Post
                              I could be wrong but it would not be as far off as some magical being that created the world and then whispering in some guys ear the truth about it all. I'm stating from what we know, some form of an ever existing environment would make the most since but I have not filed it away in my mind as a belief, it is still in the unproven folder. Unlike many theists, who believe in the revelation of god, who claim they are right because the whisperee wrote a book about it all.
                              ok...soooo, again, you admit you could be wrong. dude...you wouldnt believe how proud i am of you. thanks...your making it esier for me to live up to my promise to you! i have come to the conclusion that, like the rest of us, you aint got a clue either....
                              HE WHO MAKES A BEAST OF HIMSELF, GET'S RID OF THE PAIN OF BEING A MAN!!


                              http://www.infinitymuscle.com/forum.php







                              "Actually for once your actually starting sound quite logical!"-djdiggler 07/10/2007

                              I LOVE BOOBOOKITTY...

                              Comment


                              • Re: Truth about the Golden Compass movie

                                Originally posted by daved150 View Post
                                ok...soooo, again, you admit you could be wrong. dude...you wouldnt believe how proud i am of you. thanks...your making it esier for me to live up to my promise to you! i have come to the conclusion that, like the rest of us, you aint got a clue either....

                                Bro, when you know we (humans) don't have all the answers - you have a clue. So if you believe you don't have all the answers to our omniverse existence - you have a clue. People don't have a clue, when they start making the answers up (or believing in someone else's made up crap) and endorsing that everyone else give away their clue (reason).

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