Atheism and Thanksgiving

[PL456]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

So, there isn't a purpose to human life, right? Its just what the individual makes of it. Nature went through this incredibly complex chemical process to evolve humans so we can learn from each other..that's the purpose of life? Sounds pretty weak to me.

Now, as to my second question, you seem to waver somewhat. You posit, naturally, that our bodies return to the ecosystem to power future life-forms (this I believe). However, you state that if there is a "good god", then he or she would probably have mercy and be kind, even if we have spent our lives stating he or she does not exist, denying them, living as we fallible, ignorant humans want to live, as long as we were good guys (good guys defined by ourselves). The Bible says that the only way to the Father is through Jesus. Was Jesus foolish in making this statement? I dont understand your foolish or scary comment. If there is a God, do you think he will care one whit that you are scared in the end? After all the chances He has given you, the fact that you claim to have studied His word, yet still deny Him? In the end, my friends, the fact is that if you knew about Jesus Christ, if you knew about the Bible, and what God's expectations were of us in this life, and you have still denied His existence and rebelled against Him, things will be much worse for you. You were given a fair chance, knowing what was expected, and you chose to rebel. God is a loving God, but He is a righteous and jealous God. So, I will ask again, what if you are wrong?

[Klash]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

you guys are way off the mark on many issues. As I said, sooner or later, every knee shall bow. Defame my beliefs all you want, say how religious people are weak-minded, fantasy-minded individuals. But, is it easier to believe that the universe was created by a loving creator, or by chance? Have you ever heard of entropy and enthalpy? Evolutionaries and atheist scientists agree that all things move from order towards disorder. Would you guys argue this? Does the universe, in your understanding, move from order towards disorder? Have you ever seen a broken cup fall from a table and collect itself to form a complete cup? No. It takes far more faith to think that everything we see, the order of our planet, the precise temperatures, pH levels, atmospheric conditions, makeup of our bodies, I could go on, were all by chance... ...You blow something up, order will not be created. Disorder will be created. Humans did not arise from the chaos that evolutionists project. Secular science states that order cannot arise from disorder. The only explanation is a benevolent creator, that set the process in motion and created humans and all life forms. I beleaguer this point because, guys, what if you are wrong in terms of eternity? Atheism is totally beyond me, as we all will die someday. If I had a doubt about atheism, after all I have heard about Christianity, I would at least want to investigate the matter. I mean, eternity is forever, right? Are you guys saying there is no doubt whatsoever in your mind, after considering all the information? The Christian scientists that have spoken about this topic, the years and billions of other people who believe, the information written in the Bible. The fact that Jesus was predicted to come 2,000 years before His birth. The fact that His lineage was predicted, and He fulfilled that lineage precisely. The eye-witness accounts in the Bible of many people who had no connection, who saw Him after His death. There is no doubt in your mind? Let me ask you this, as an atheist--2 questions:
1) What is the purpose of human life?

2) What happens after you die?

PL456, the fact we disagree with each other implies that both of us think the other is ignorant on the issue but because of that implication I always try to keep these discussions as matter as fact as possible to not further exacerbate any implied ignorance. So please do not take anything I write personally.

Entropy depends on whether a system is closed or open. Entropy does not appear to be happening on the earth because it is an open system; gaining energy from the sun. The sun is a closed system; it is not gaining any energy. Once the sun has entropied (is that a word) out of existence so will the order on the earth.

Atheists and evolutionists believe that all matter came from a singularity present prior to the big bang, right? Well, what formed this initial singularity? What started it all? What created all the matter present in that singularity that eventually exploded and expanded to form our universe?

Just because we do not have the answers does not mean we should just make some up. I am as curious as you for the answers but theists are simply creating more questions in an attempt to provide explanations with the supernatural. Humans in general are curious as to our origins of existence, i.e. "where did we come from". That is one question. The theists attempt to answer this question with "god", prompts several more questions: "how do we define god", "why did he create us", and "who created him". Which depending on the supernatural explanation to those questions prompts even more questions. There is no consensus on these answers because they cannot be held to logic, i.e. these conclusions are irrational and cannot result in harmony because the irrational cannot persuade, they can only deceive, confuse or coerce their beliefs on others.

Anyway, your two questions:
1) What is the purpose of human life? His own survival.
2) What happens after you die? You lose consciousness.

A human body does not create energy, it uses it and when its systems fail at acquiring or using that energy from an outside source; it dies.

[mandarb11]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Ok PL456 you got me I am a believer now, your logic and wisdom have won me over. Your vast knowledge and understanding of the Christian religion and teachings overwhelms me, what defense can I possible muster?

Your whole reason for belief is founded upon the premise of punishment! Not of logic or reason not even of understanding the words that you put so much stock into. You seem to be one of those people that no matter what evidence is presented to you, you just continue on in the same irrational thinking, disregarding the facts so that in the end your argument is summed up with "do this or else". Anybody that came to a "false" belief in a god because of fear is not a believer anyways. Also you seem to not understand the dichotomy of the old testament god and the new testament god, completely different teachings. But I am not wasting any more time it does not matter what is presented to you, like I said in my original statement, I wish i lived in a world that is so simplistic!

If anyone has to worry about their conduct in this life, i believe it would be a person that talks about believing in a god of love, yet always preaches hate, now that would be a person that needs to worry!

[PL456]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Likewise on the personal thing.

I am really weary of discussing the whole universe thing. I have made my statement on that--thats just window dressing, IMO.

Regarding your reference as to human curiosity and logic. These are truly human traits, and good ones. However, some things are not for us to understand. Hence, faith. Faith is belief in something which you cannot prove. Faith is the cornerstone of Christianity. This, IMO, is the great divide between theists and atheists. A great example is one that examines the thinking of an adult relative to a child. A child is concrete, believes only what they see, hear, feel; a child cannot take that next step and believe that mommy is does not cease to exist just because they cannot see her--this scares the child. The mother knows this is ridiculous, but struggles to teach the child better. As humans we are children of God. We are children to Him. Our thinking, our best inventions, our best and brightest and most enlightened scholars are so primitive to Him. Some things we humans are not meant to understand. Just as the infant cries when mother leaves, as she ceases to exist when not in the baby's sight--this is the level of reasoning we have. We have to go on faith. Faith may not be logical, but it is what we go on. As you acquire faith, you will begin to see more and more proof of God's existence and workings in your own life. God has proven Himself to me countless times, but it all started with faith. If you get into trying to prove this or that prior to having faith, you will become lost and confused. We are asked to take that first step, of our own choosing. We are free to choose faith or to deny it--free will.

The Bible is God's word on the hows and whys and definitions and His demeanor. It teaches you what you need to know on your journey.

[PL456]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Thanks for the slam, mandbar....

[straydoglogic]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

man i get so heated when i read stuff like this..im a guest here so i will keep my thoughts to myself..but im glad to see klash and mandarb seem to share similar thoughts as myself..i will gladly share thoughts with those 2 anyday..i live by fact and logic..not theory and faith..faith is hope and hope is need..i find solutions to my own issues myself because asking for help from a superior being has shown in history to have accomplished nothing..

[mandarb11]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

PL456 do you not agree I attempted to have a reasonable adult discussion on the matter? Dispite my best efforts to engage you on an intellectual level you have disregarded all ideas, facts put forth from myself and replied each time by professions of faith and threats of impending doom. A discussion is just that a two way dialogue by which we both make points and counterpoints. This was not done on your part. I addressed your concerns, inquiries each time you made them, you did not even make the attempt for what I had to say, that shows me a lack of respect, and that is fine but do not seek to engage a person in a debate if you do not want to hear what they have to say!

[pigmeat]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

PL456 do you not agree I attempted to have a reasonable adult discussion on the matter? Dispite my best efforts to engage you on an intellectual level you have disregarded all ideas, facts put forth from myself and replied each time by professions of faith and threats of impending doom. A discussion is just that a two way dialogue by which we both make points and counterpoints. This was not done on your part. I addressed your concerns, inquiries each time you made them, you did not even make the attempt for what I had to say, that shows me a lack of respect, and that is fine but do not seek to engage a person in a debate if you do not want to hear what they have to say!

i dont even waste my time talking with him anymore...his way is the only way..his believes are the only correct ones.kind of like djdiggler,lol.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

kind of like djdiggler,lol.

HATER!

[Klash]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Likewise on the personal thing.

I am really weary of discussing the whole universe thing. I have made my statement on that--thats just window dressing, IMO.

Regarding your reference as to human curiosity and logic. These are truly human traits, and good ones. However, some things are not for us to understand. Hence, faith. Faith is belief in something which you cannot prove. Faith is the cornerstone of Christianity. This, IMO, is the great divide between theists and atheists. A great example is one that examines the thinking of an adult relative to a child. A child is concrete, believes only what they see, hear, feel; a child cannot take that next step and believe that mommy is does not cease to exist just because they cannot see her--this scares the child. The mother knows this is ridiculous, but struggles to teach the child better. As humans we are children of God. We are children to Him. Our thinking, our best inventions, our best and brightest and most enlightened scholars are so primitive to Him. Some things we humans are not meant to understand. Just as the infant cries when mother leaves, as she ceases to exist when not in the baby's sight--this is the level of reasoning we have. We have to go on faith. Faith may not be logical, but it is what we go on. As you acquire faith, you will begin to see more and more proof of God's existence and workings in your own life. God has proven Himself to me countless times, but it all started with faith. If you get into trying to prove this or that prior to having faith, you will become lost and confused. We are asked to take that first step, of our own choosing. We are free to choose faith or to deny it--free will.

The Bible is God's word on the hows and whys and definitions and His demeanor. It teaches you what you need to know on your journey.

Faith is the cornerstone of all religions; not just Christianity. The only philosophical position that does not rely on faith is a-theism. All theists have faith as a common trait. All faiths explain god as beyond our comprehension; they have to - otherwise there would be evidence of him. Faith is dangerous; there is no persuading the faithful. Muslim extremists isn't just the results of a particular religion; it is the result of faith.

An omniscient (knowing even your thoughts) god (that makes humanities best minds look primitive) that would demand faith from a species that he created to survive on reason would be considered an extremely sadistic entity even from the mans primitive standards. So you see this tells people a lot about those who serve him. They are either deceiving themselves and hoping to pull one over on the omniscient creator or they admire their gods sadistic characteristics.

[pigmeat]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

HATER!

[horsepwr]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

I wanna know if anyone knows where your electricity goes.

Didn't mean to Dr. Suess the hell out of that.

[horsepwr]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

A human body does not create energy, it uses it and when its systems fail at acquiring or using that energy from an outside source; it dies.

Are you replying to my question? I'm not talking about energy. I'm asking about the electricity that operates your heart and brain.

[mandarb11]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Electricity is just a form of energy! The body is a bio-chemical/electrical system and all functions from nerves to heartbeats are run by this bio-electrical energy....when one dies that energy is no longer generated and hence disipates. It is pretty cool to think about though.

[horsepwr]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Well, electricity does not just disipate. We have figured out how to kinda harness it and control it but electricity has no ending. It doesn't just disipate. It travels. We don't even know what electricity does when it travels...like what it does in the conductor...how it moves. There's a flux field, your poles, polarity, does our electricity enter a giant flux around the earth? Who knows? We might find out when it leaves our bodies. There are many particles within this electricity. This electricity is how information is passed. Will it still contain the information we've learned???