Atheism and Thanksgiving

[Klash]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

^How about private charity, non-profit organizations, etc.? It doesn't require the use of a gun, like socialism and they are more efficient.
Your still looking at Capitalism from our current position. Elderly people would prepare for their twilight years if the government did not provide through the use of force, or people who valued them would care for them.
Women would not have children they could not afford or they would give them up for adoption.

[mandarb11]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

All those things are good, but they are not gauranteed. Your philosophy is great, but it assumes that everyone can be successful as long as one works hard, the old protestant work ethic. In reality many people work all their lives and have little or nothing to show for it. This is due to a myriad of reasons, one very important one is that people born to a certain socio-economic status tend to stay within that level their lives, due to education (or lack thereof), etc. The point is charity programs are not reliable as they are operating from the whim of upper-middle class people and how much they are willing to contribute. Perhaps in the ideal world a purely capitalistic system would be ideal, but ten again so to would a communist system, but we all know how well that turned out! lol

[PL456]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

you guys are way off the mark on many issues. As I said, sooner or later, every knee shall bow. Defame my beliefs all you want, say how religious people are weak-minded, fantasy-minded individuals. But, is it easier to believe that the universe was created by a loving creator, or by chance? Have you ever heard of entropy and enthalpy? Evolutionaries and atheist scientists agree that all things move from order towards disorder. Would you guys argue this? Does the universe, in your understanding, move from order towards disorder? Have you ever seen a broken cup fall from a table and collect itself to form a complete cup? No. It takes far more faith to think that everything we see, the order of our planet, the precise temperatures, pH levels, atmospheric conditions, makeup of our bodies, I could go on, were all by chance. Atheists and evolutionists believe that all matter came from a singularity present prior to the big bang, right? Well, what formed this initial singularity? What started it all? What created all the matter present in that singularity that eventually exploded and expanded to form our universe? You blow something up, order will not be created. Disorder will be created. Humans did not arise from the chaos that evolutionists project. Secular science states that order cannot arise from disorder. The only explanation is a benevolent creator, that set the process in motion and created humans and all life forms. I beleaguer this point because, guys, what if you are wrong in terms of eternity? Atheism is totally beyond me, as we all will die someday. If I had a doubt about atheism, after all I have heard about Christianity, I would at least want to investigate the matter. I mean, eternity is forever, right? Are you guys saying there is no doubt whatsoever in your mind, after considering all the information? The Christian scientists that have spoken about this topic, the years and billions of other people who believe, the information written in the Bible. The fact that Jesus was predicted to come 2,000 years before His birth. The fact that His lineage was predicted, and He fulfilled that lineage precisely. The eye-witness accounts in the Bible of many people who had no connection, who saw Him after His death. There is no doubt in your mind? Let me ask you this, as an atheist--2 questions:
1) What is the purpose of human life?

2) What happens after you die?

[mandarb11]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Ok where to start. First off no where in any of my posts do I say anything about religious people are weak minded etc, in fact I have great respect for all people beliefs / ideas. The reasoning that everything needs a begining is a weak arguement at best for the idea of a creator. We do not know how everything came into being but the evidence that exist does not point towards a creatot, that is wishful thinking. Imagine following that line of thinking to it logical conclusion, if the answer to all our inquiries was God then we would never try to further our knowledge, we would essentially still be living in the "dark ages". If you think you already have the answer then you do not ask the question.

Lets say for the sake of arguement that yes there is something that started all creation (this theory was actually propounded by a group of intellectuals during the 19th century known as diests). This does not infere the nature of such a creator. In fact since there are literally thousands of religions in existence and many more that do not exist anymore, with each one claiming a supernatural cause to life, then it looks poorly for the judao-christian idea of creation. Remember your religion is just one among many! If we must accept the idea of a creator there is nothing to confirm that it is the one the Christians/Jews beleive in.

Now you ask about whether I have considered all the information due to the Christian idea o eternal damnation etc. From my posts so far have you not gleamed that I know a great deal of information about your religion, in fact I know for a fact that I know the Christian religion better than most Christians. I have studied the history, the works (biblical and otherwise), from a personal and intellectual level. I know the teachings of this fellow Jesus so well that I have actually debated church elders in at least 4 different religions. How was it I called you to account for your posts about endorsing killing and torture. I know what Jesus taught! If anyone is the true definition of an athiest bro it would be you. Who else could talk about doing evil to people and not worry about the repercussions, I know I do!


Your stuff about Jesus being predicted 2000 years before his death etc really shows your ignorance about the religion you profess to be apart of. The work you are talking about is the Book of Isaiah (orally established around 700 BCE or 700 years before the birth of Jesus) that speaks of a messiah. Do you know what a messiah is? I will enlighten you, a messiah is literally "annointed one" (in greek Christos or in english Christ). Just so you know every king and priest and prophets of Isreal was a messiah as well as many other people, it was where they would signify a change of status with annointing oil. In fact after the jews were brought back to their homeland after the first Diaspora the persian king at the time was even conferred the title of messiah! Not such a special term once you learn it origins.

Now when I started questioning the beleif system I was raised in I did not decide to abstain from a beleif in God before I learned as much as I could. No one can make a logical decision without first examining the facts, something I might add is not done when one beleives in a religion! After studying Christianity for many years each new peice of information I found confirmed to me that what people are taught is not correct, and the scary thing is all this information is easy to learn, it is not like we don't live in an information age. So to say that I have not considered the information is ridiculous.

To conclude I will answer your last 2 questions.
1. The purpose of human life is what you make of it. This life is the only life we have so we better make the most of it while we are here, that means we treat our fellow humans the best we can, we enjoy this life while we have it. A person purpose for my life is to learn as much as I can about everything while I am here, how else can I truly appreciate life!

2. I have no idea what happens when we die, logically and from the evidence that exists our mind dies with our body, whereas we decay and become part of the life cycle oncemore. If there is a god, and this good is good then I don't think that the only criteria to a heaven would be a beleif. That is foolish in the least and scary at the most. One must always be judged on what they did in this life, not what beleifs they pretend to profess to!


I challenge you to learn all you can about that group of books you say you have so much faith in. Also to truly follow the important teachings of Jesus for many of them are about wisdom and conduct with our fellow humans. You don't need to believe that someone or something exists to appreciate the wisdom of a teaching! I hope that helps you understand my position a little better!

[Klash]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

All those things are good, but they are not gauranteed. Your philosophy is great, but it assumes that everyone can be successful as long as one works hard, the old protestant work ethic. In reality many people work all their lives and have little or nothing to show for it. This is due to a myriad of reasons, one very important one is that people born to a certain socio-economic status tend to stay within that level their lives, due to education (or lack thereof), etc. The point is charity programs are not reliable as they are operating from the whim of upper-middle class people and how much they are willing to contribute. Perhaps in the ideal world a purely capitalistic system would be ideal, but ten again so to would a communist system, but we all know how well that turned out! lol

A free society doesn't assume everyone can be successful it just gives everyone the same equal right to pursue success.

Pragmatism is an ideal or philosophy too, the difference is those that practice it (or hold its beliefs) rarely come to a consensus on any particular standard or solution, except that of majority rules and once the majority speaks, force that is immoral when applied by individuals is considered moral when applied by government.

In a free society, which would include capitalism, government or a mob would not have the right to infringe individual freedoms; just as any individual does not have the right to infringe any other individual's freedoms.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

I thank God for what he's given me all the time. I don't believe in the whole bible thing. I think the bible is a bunch of stories that give people a good way to live your life. It instills good character and manners in a person, makes on selfless, and thankful for what they're given. But I don't believe the stories are fact.

I believe it was created for there to be order in the world. Without religon and order, there would only be chaos.

So as I said I thank God, because to think this whole universe and everything in it just came from a big bang is ludacris. Just look at the human body alone and all of the functions. The designs are far to intelligent for a big bang. I do believe a supreme being created us all. I don't however know what he expects of us.

All I know is if I do my best to help all of those around me, be selfless, and try my best to be a good person, He'll hopefully be happy with my actions.

[straydoglogic]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

you guys are way off the mark on many issues. As I said, sooner or later, every knee shall bow. Defame my beliefs all you want, say how religious people are weak-minded, fantasy-minded individuals. But, is it easier to believe that the universe was created by a loving creator, or by chance? Have you ever heard of entropy and enthalpy? Evolutionaries and atheist scientists agree that all things move from order towards disorder. Would you guys argue this? Does the universe, in your understanding, move from order towards disorder? Have you ever seen a broken cup fall from a table and collect itself to form a complete cup? No. It takes far more faith to think that everything we see, the order of our planet, the precise temperatures, pH levels, atmospheric conditions, makeup of our bodies, I could go on, were all by chance. Atheists and evolutionists believe that all matter came from a singularity present prior to the big bang, right? Well, what formed this initial singularity? What started it all? What created all the matter present in that singularity that eventually exploded and expanded to form our universe? You blow something up, order will not be created. Disorder will be created. Humans did not arise from the chaos that evolutionists project. Secular science states that order cannot arise from disorder. The only explanation is a benevolent creator, that set the process in motion and created humans and all life forms. I beleaguer this point because, guys, what if you are wrong in terms of eternity? Atheism is totally beyond me, as we all will die someday. If I had a doubt about atheism, after all I have heard about Christianity, I would at least want to investigate the matter. I mean, eternity is forever, right? Are you guys saying there is no doubt whatsoever in your mind, after considering all the information? The Christian scientists that have spoken about this topic, the years and billions of other people who believe, the information written in the Bible. The fact that Jesus was predicted to come 2,000 years before His birth. The fact that His lineage was predicted, and He fulfilled that lineage precisely. The eye-witness accounts in the Bible of many people who had no connection, who saw Him after His death. There is no doubt in your mind? Let me ask you this, as an atheist--2 questions:
1) What is the purpose of human life?

2) What happens after you die?

okay..first i wont get too in depth with this because 1 i dont have the time and 2 i dont have the patience..im an atheist and i dont feel the need to explain why..
but i would like to start first by saying that i will bow to no-one!! to say that all men will is saying you know that all men are weak..which i am not..
as for your 2 questions...
1-the meaning of life is to give life meaning...

2-when you die youre dead..nothing more..nothing less..thats it its over..so enjoy while you can...carpe diem..part of the reason people accept religion is because most people are afraid to die..they want to think there is something more and better when theyre gone because face it..simply ceasing to exist sucks..but you should not fear the inevitable..it will not change..

[Rolsroyce]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Hey Kaizer, whats up buddy. You and me are best buddies. I believe in the Christian God and you are atheist. Your beliefs dont influence me and mine dont you and we are fne. I think the truth is we all want to know what is the correct way to believe and think but all we can do is choose our path by what our heart tells us and try to be the best human we can and help those that deserve it and take care of ourselves and family the best we can with the time we have, learning and growing as much as possible along the way.

[straydoglogic]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Hey Kaizer, whats up buddy. You and me are best buddies. I believe in the Christian God and you are atheist. Your beliefs dont influence me and mine dont you and we are fne. I think the truth is we all want to know what is the correct way to believe and think but all we can do is choose our path by what our heart tells us and try to be the best human we can and help those that deserve it and take care of ourselves and family the best we can with the time we have, learning and growing as much as possible along the way.

and the good thing is that we have our differences and we both know we disagree on this issue and i still consider you family....

[horsepwr]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Electricity is a powerful thing. Electricity is what operates our bodies. Without this elctricity, our bodies are lifeless. Electricity does not die. There is no ending. Where does this bit of electricity go when it leaves our bodies?

[straydoglogic]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

Electricity is a powerful thing. Electricity is what operates our bodies. Without this elctricity, our bodies are lifeless. Electricity does not die. There is no ending. Where does this bit of electricity go when it leaves our bodies?

so do you believe in reincarnation? where do you think this energy goes?

[horsepwr]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

so do you believe in reincarnation? where do you think this energy goes?

I wanna know if anyone knows where your electricity goes.

[straydoglogic]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

into the atmosphere? only logical thing i can give you...

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

I believe in reincarnation. I also believe that we have senses we don't even know about.

A great example is I know when someone or something has entered the room by the change in atmospheric pressure. It's odd to explain on a computer, but I've shown many people, and they realized they have the same ability.

It even is there when you sleep. I've tested it with my son. I'll go in his room, make absolutely sure I've made zero noise, and stand over his crib. Many times within seconds he'll wake from his sleep, and turn to look at me as if he knew I was standing there. Quite odd.

I've also noticed people have certain unknown connections to things. For instance I have an odd connection to bodies of water. I don't even know how to explain it, but I get this nostalgic feeling like I at one point in one of my lives, was involved in something that had to do with a body of water. Maybe I was a pirate, or once lived on an island that is now sunk. I have no clue what the connection is, but it's definitely there. Even more strange is all of the males in my bloodline have the same connection with water. None of the females do, and none of my friends do. Very strange.

[straydoglogic]

Re: Atheism and Thanksgiving

well considering we dont use most of our brains..there are alot of things we may have the ability to do that we dont know of..