Great Depression again?

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Great Depression again?

I'm going to start off by saying this is the last time I plan on replying to anything you say! I'm tired off reiterating things because you have a lack of comprehension. So after this I will continue this debate with anyone else on this site but you. I'm no longer going to respond to anything you say in the political forums until you can actually start providing facts, and quit acting like a tough guy!

More importantly this whole lack of comprehension thing has got to stop. Read before you f'n write!!!

1. Let's play another game...Show me one instance that I've spun anything you've said. I don't have to spin anything you say. You do that yourself. ?

Here's one instance! I said this to Pigmeat in his good question about why I use the media links if I think they are lies.
That's actually a good question, and I give you props on that. The truth is I know how most of my opponents swear by the media, and happen to think every government spewed piece of propoganda is truth. So I'm throwing their own facts at them, by the media they so willfully follow.

Also as I've said before, the media HAS to report many facts in order to gain public trust, so when they do spew the government fabricated lies people don't think twice about it.

It's actually quite brilliant if you think about it. They're not stupid in the least!

After I posted that a few posts later you do the following....


How do you go from this?...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER
Once again you fail! If you had any comprehension skills whatsoever you should now by now I am deadset on the thought that the media is controlled by the government! So where the hell are you getting this idea my vocabulary is media spattered as you put it?

to this???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER
So far every single story that's on the news has coincided with what I said nearly two years ago.

Apparently if you had any comprehension skills, your question would've been answered. Instead you decided to take the mature route and spin what I said, and form it to try and make me look like an idiot. What you did instead is back yourself into a corner.

You asked for one instance, you've got it!

WHO LOOKS DUMB NOW?

2. You're the flamer.

Just so I have it straight. The reason you know that the media/government is telling the truth is because you and your friend is having a tough time with business right now?

Man yet again, COMPREHENSION IS YOUR FRIEND!!! AGAIN I'LL RE-POST WHAT I WROTE SO YOU CAN TRY AND COMPREHEND IT THIS TIME! I'M NOT TO SURE THAT'S POSSIBLE THOUGH!

Here's a copy of what I wrote on page 2 of this thread.....(just so you can follow I cut out the part that pertains to "the reason I know" as you put it.

Truckers have gone from making 50k to now barely making 10k, mortgage brokers are taking a huge hit, construction industry has been devastated! Don't tell me unemployment is low! That's just numbers of people that are actually on unemployment! Do you think they go house to house and ask if you're unemployed? I know tons of people that are unemployed because of the market, and don't collect unemployment because they know they won't qualify for one reason or another. So they wouldn't be included in those statistics. Those statistics are padded!

My father in law is a foreman for a MAJOR construction company that does predominantely government projects. Not little crap, I'm talking BILLION dollar contracts! Even they had to lay off over 600 employees because where they used to be scheduled years out, they aren't even scheduled out 6 months anymore! All of the companies are taking a dive!

Then finally here's links I provided that you clearly didn't read.....or maybe you did and again lacked the ability to comprehend what you just read!

1. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080305/...fi/fed_economy

2. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...01053.html?g=1

3. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/fed_credit_crisis.html

4. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/economy.html

And here's a new one....

5. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080307/...h/bush_economy

I think my point is well proven. I'm willing to be the next few comments from you will be a mix of bashing, flaming, opinions, with no facts or links to back up anything you claim. This is the usual horsepwr post. Although I'd love to think otherwise, people like you never change. That's why this country is like it is. There's an abundance of people like yourself THAT JUST DON'T GET IT!

[horsepwr]

Re: Great Depression again?

I'm going to start off by saying this is the last time I plan on replying to anything you say! I'm tired off reiterating things because you have a lack of comprehension. So after this I will continue this debate with anyone else on this site but you. I'm no longer going to respond to anything you say in the political forums until you can actually start providing facts, and quit acting like a tough guy!

More importantly this whole lack of comprehension thing has got to stop. Read before you f'n write!!!





Here's one instance! I said this to Pigmeat in his good question about why I use the media links if I think they are lies.
That's actually a good question, and I give you props on that. The truth is I know how most of my opponents swear by the media, and happen to think every government spewed piece of propoganda is truth. So I'm throwing their own facts at them, by the media they so willfully follow.

Also as I've said before, the media HAS to report many facts in order to gain public trust, so when they do spew the government fabricated lies people don't think twice about it.

It's actually quite brilliant if you think about it. They're not stupid in the least!

After I posted that a few posts later you do the following....


How do you go from this?...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER
Once again you fail! If you had any comprehension skills whatsoever you should now by now I am deadset on the thought that the media is controlled by the government! So where the hell are you getting this idea my vocabulary is media spattered as you put it?

to this???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER
So far every single story that's on the news has coincided with what I said nearly two years ago.

Apparently if you had any comprehension skills, your question would've been answered. Instead you decided to take the mature route and spin what I said, and form it to try and make me look like an idiot. What you did instead is back yourself into a corner.

You asked for one instance, you've got it!

WHO LOOKS DUMB NOW?

YOU! Come on dj. You can't be that confused. Those are your very own statements that I quoted. The media is all government mandated lies in one post and in another everything the media says is fact???

[horsepwr]

Re: Great Depression again?

I TRULY WILL NEVER THINK THAT 911 WAS A CONSPIRACY AND THE US HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT

No. Me neither. That's like accusing someone of raping their own mother. It is somethin else to see what some people create in their minds and then those that take the bait.

[horsepwr]

Re: Great Depression again?

roflmao,

conspiracy, oh man, how about just plain simple stupidity, anyone with a napkin could see sub-prime would be a disaster

only so many folks need a home, can buy a home, want a home, it' demographics 101, supply demand

obviously u also do not believe in freedom, free will, or freedom of speech, because that is the only way ur theory works, that we have none of that here

lol.. you forgot one thing...anyone with a napkin and a brain.

[pigmeat]

Re: Great Depression again?

lets have fun debating and arguing guys, but try and play a little nicer..please
Dj, i am not arguing that areas of the economy are bad....i am arguing the fact that you say it is another great depression...
The economy isnt all bad...depends on your field of work. If you work in the energy industries, you ar kicking a s s! All of them are recording record profits...hell i make more money each year...alot more money each year...intrest rates dont effect me, as i have good credit, and already locked in on a 4.5% homemortgage......as a matteof fact my 401k and ira have all continued making me money...i made alot of money last quarter on 401k....over $100,000 last quarter on it...why, because alot of my investments are in energy stocks that skyrocket over the last couple years.
Gas prices arent hurting me much either...i use 2 tanks of fuel a week...the diffrence it costs me frm being $2.70 a gallon and $3.20 a gallon costs me about $70 a month...or $2.50 a day...hardly going to drive me into bankruptcy....

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Great Depression again?

lets have fun debating and arguing guys, but try and play a little nicer..please
Dj, i am not arguing that areas of the economy are bad....i am arguing the fact that you say it is another great depression...
The economy isnt all bad...depends on your field of work. If you work in the energy industries, you ar kicking a s s! All of them are recording record profits...hell i make more money each year...alot more money each year...intrest rates dont effect me, as i have good credit, and already locked in on a 4.5% homemortgage......as a matteof fact my 401k and ira have all continued making me money...i made alot of money last quarter on 401k....over $100,000 last quarter on it...why, because alot of my investments are in energy stocks that skyrocket over the last couple years.
Gas prices arent hurting me much either...i use 2 tanks of fuel a week...the diffrence it costs me frm being $2.70 a gallon and $3.20 a gallon costs me about $70 a month...or $2.50 a day...hardly going to drive me into bankruptcy....

See I actually agree with what you're saying to a degree. I believe in any depression there will always be those certain factions that come out on top. Being that the energy industry is the cause of our economies collapse in my opinion, of course they are making record profits. Everyone in that industry is making money hand over fist, while the rest of the industries are biting the bullet. They are gouging people at the pump, and they know it. They are making record profits for a reason.

Gas prices won't effect you only depending on where you live. The average citizen lives 30-45 minutes from work, or atleast so they say according to most studies.

It costs me $21 everytime I take a round trip from my house to the Tampa/Clearwater area (32 miles away from me). It used to cost me like $10! That's a big difference across 5 days a week. That's an additional $55 a week / $220 a month. Now spread that loss across a couple since two people in a marriage drive to two seperate places, and you have a $440 loss a month in household income. Now couple that with the fact I spend an additional $150 a week in groceries since the prices have soared there too thanks to ethanol / and delivery costs going out of control, plus add an additional $80 to my energy bill. That's $670 gone because of f'n gas prices.

Now to top it off material costs are much higher thanks to the fact that again energy costs are up, so it costs more to make materials. Then they have to deliver the materials to a distribution warehouse which they have to charge nearly double for now that gas/diesel prices are insane. Those two things together spell disaster not only for the construction industry, but for any industry.

I'm glad you made out on your 401k. That's good to hear some people are making out. Not everyone is so fortunate though. Just read the paper, blogs, news whatever and you'll see the majority have lost a boatload in this economy. My sister-in-law is one of them. She owns 20+ homes, and has a net worth in the millions. She said she lost alot in the stock market, and she's not dumb by any means. She's incredibely smart.

I'm not saying because I know one person that lost alot in the stock market, that, that is why we are in a depression. I'm giving one example of someone close I know. If you read or look around, or even speak to the majority of the people on the streets they will have the same story. I ask people everywhere I go. Call me nosey, but I always get political with people in public places. I like to hear peoples thoughts (atleast those that are rational, haha). It's amazing how people of all ages are effected by this market.

I always think if something goes wrong, that I must be doing something wrong. So I research it. I'll read into it, watch videos, and then start asking strangers questions that will give me info into whether I'm alone or not. Once I've got enough info obviously I can compile a pretty good synopsis of what the issue is.

Which is why I deemed it a great depression yet again. It's hurting people across the board (of course minus the cause ///energy industry///). Prices are going up, wages are not. Costs are getting expensive, people have less to spend. Jobs are being lost, not created. Companies are outsourcing work to other countries.....this is not a good time at all.

[horsepwr]

Re: Great Depression again?

[B][SIZE="4"]
Then finally here's links I provided that you clearly didn't read.....or maybe you did and again lacked the ability to comprehend what you just read!

1. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080305/...fi/fed_economy

"Many economists fear that the country is teetering on the edge of a recession or is in one already."...

Thanks for backing me up

2. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...01053.html?g=1

"This time, two-thirds of the Fed's districts described a softening or weakening in the pace of business activity, and the others all referred to subdued, slow, or modest growth."...

Again. far from a great depression. It even notes economic growth! This article also steers clear of the (recession) label.

3. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/fed_credit_crisis.html

"Fears are growing that the country is teetering on the edge of a recession, if one has not already begun."...

sound familiar?

4. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/economy.html

"It sounds like the recession bell is ringing for the U.S. economy, although it is still faint," said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at PNC Financial...

"The elimination of 63,000 jobs in February was the most since March 2003 and marked the second month in a row of job losses. The last time the economy suffered two consecutive months of job losses was in May and June 2003,"...

So we had a recession in 2003?

And here's a new one....

5. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080307/...h/bush_economy

"I'm still not saying that there's a recession," Lazear said. "We are going to have a weak growth quarter, and whether you call that a recession or not is something that we won't know for many months."...

Exactly. We'll know in a few months if you could refer to this quarter as a little recession or not.

Did you read these links dj? None of them even go so far as to categorize the current economy as recession. Every link suggests "teetering on the edge of recession" in areas of the economy... so I went to far. I actually used the term (recession) to describe sections of the economic situation.

Thanks for the links. I'm scraping you outa the treads of my shoes now.

[pigmeat]

Re: Great Depression again?

have you tried to book a vacation lately?all the big resorts are booked 6 months out..doesnt sound like a depression to me...certain industries are hurting others are not...my mom works in medical field...she just got a7% cost of living pay raise...my dad is a farmer (alfalfa)...he has made more money this last 2 years than ever in his life...(i mean lotttts of $$$)There are still lines at home depot...lines at the atv/motorcycle dealers, the lakes are impossible to get your boat on any more...too many boats...try and go camping...not a spot on the mountain....all of this is activity done by middle class people...unnecessary spending...expensive hobbies....i dont think this would be the norm if we were in bad shape like you say

In your world: Only 1 boat at the lake..everyone either couldnt make the payment and their boat was repod, or they cant afford the gas to pull it to the lake, and gas for the boat...only the one rich guy in town at the lake..Home depot:...nobody there...all the inventory on clearance sale...people have no money to install that $5000 vinyl fence...or that fancy chandeloir their wife has been wanting..

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Great Depression again?

Being that you actually took the time to read this time Horse I will respond to that post.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
re·ces·sion1 /rɪˈsɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-sesh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the act of receding or withdrawing.
2. a receding part of a wall, building, etc.
3. a withdrawing procession, as at the end of a religious service.
4. Economics. a period of an economic contraction, sometimes limited in scope or duration. Compare depression (def. 7).

"Many economists fear that the country is teetering on the edge of a recession or is in one already."...

"Fears are growing that the country is teetering on the edge of a recession, if one has not already begun."...

"It sounds like the recession bell is ringing for the U.S. economy, although it is still faint," said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at PNC Financial...

"The elimination of 63,000 jobs in February was the most since March 2003 and marked the second month in a row of job losses. The last time the economy suffered two consecutive months of job losses was in May and June 2003,"...

Are you understanding what Recession means? I bolded what apparentely you were missing, and I even included a direct excerpt from dictionary.com with it also saying COMPARE TO DEPRESSION! IT'S ONE IN THE SAME THING!

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: Great Depression again?

have you tried to book a vacation lately?all the big resorts are booked 6 months out..doesnt sound like a depression to me...certain industries are hurting others are not...my mom works in medical field...she just got a7% cost of living pay raise...my dad is a farmer (alfalfa)...he has made more money this last 2 years than ever in his life...(i mean lotttts of $$$)There are still lines at home depot...lines at the atv/motorcycle dealers, the lakes are impossible to get your boat on any more...too many boats...try and go camping...not a spot on the mountain....all of this is activity done by middle class people...unnecessary spending...expensive hobbies....i dont think this would be the norm if we were in bad shape like you say

In your world: Only 1 boat at the lake..everyone either couldnt make the payment and their boat was repod, or they cant afford the gas to pull it to the lake, and gas for the boat...only the one rich guy in town at the lake..Home depot:...nobody there...all the inventory on clearance sale...people have no money to install that $5000 vinyl fence...or that fancy chandeloir their wife has been wanting..

I'm speachless Pigmeat. Maybe your area is different than the rest of the country. One of my friend is a manager at Lowes and says they had to cut everyones hours and let people go since there is a lack of business.

Everyone is running mega specials now to try and stimulate new business. I ask companies everywhere I go if the economy has hurt them at all, and 99.99% of them have said it absolutely devastated them. I think I've heard one person say they were unaffected.

I'm wondering if certain areas are slammed harder than others.

I know Florida is superbad, as is Maryland & Buffalo NY. I've got family and friends in all of them, plus I visit those areas often. When I was in Maryland this past month I was checking the jobs to see how many openings there were......they only had 1 page for the whole job section! Florida atleast has like 4 pages. That was nuts! The majority seems to be medical jobs.

Oh yea, btw medical is always unaffected too Pigmeat. People always need to get medical care regardless of the economy. I forgot to add that one in my unaffected group. My bad.

[horsepwr]

Re: Great Depression again?

I understand what a recession is. Dj you gotta read the whole links to get the whole picture. We might be in a little recession in this quarter. That's as far as your links go. I even stated way back on page 3 or somewhere that we have areas of recession whcih I overstated that alittle obviously. Are you getting it now buddy? We had a much worse time in 1980-'81. That was a recession.

We might have a little recession on our hands this quarter<---is a huge difference than a "great depression" That's all I've been telling you. Your own links back me up.
(great depression)...(recession)...not at all one in the same.

[pigmeat]

Re: Great Depression again?

what about all the boating and camping and atv riding? how do you explain that...and vacations..

[trip]

Re: Great Depression again?

Again..................

They took the internet bubble money, they levered it up and lent it back with arms, 100&#37; loans, 120% loans, 40 yr. mortages, etc.

And the walls came tumbling in.

Now who buys mortgage backed securities, you're local pension fund, state, municipality etc., cause they are the safest. Now, that they got hoodwinked they aint buying a pennies worth.

Thus, there is zero, read again, zero demand for mortgage paper unless they have a gold seal of approval.

It's the leveraged, deriavative boys who will die a thousand slow deaths.

Google, carlyle group, and jefferson city alabama, this is the idiocy that has been going on, now that the bank who owns the loans are on the brink they are calling in all the loans, and when u don't have the margin, you get sold out in a heart beat.

Carlyle, smart guys, raised 600 million, they levered it up 30 times, yup, they had borrowed 20 billion at 4%, bought mortage paper at 6% and pocketed the spread, which means they owed 1 billion a year in interest and earned 1.2 billion in interest on mortgages, off of 600 mil invest that's an un***ly yearly return all due to leverage. Now, how much safer could a mortgage be, we have a 50 year history, so, by signing some papers raising some moeny these guys were making bucko bucks, and now that foreclosures are wracking up, they are screwed, because the 20 billion in mortgages are only worth 15 billion, that means, they pay a billion in interest and collect 900 million , un oh, they are losing 10 million a month on a shell company, the bank knows these guys will not poney up the money they will cut bait and run, so bank foreclosuses and sells the paper so they don't end up holding the bag.

Money does not disappear, ill gotten gains, are now becoming, once in a life time loses, i guess easy come easy go.

jeffeson city, ie, birmingham, buys derivatives, way over leveraged to save a few pennies and the worst thing happens and now they are on the hook for 200 million, uh oh, some one should be hung on the town square for approving this crap.

IMHO, the more i watch congresional hearings the more it is obvious, 80% of these guys have no better clue about stuff than the local guy and the local bar, who at least knows he don't know much.

[trip]

Re: Great Depression again?

Allright dj, i give u credit for seeing what folks are thinking, that is good.

Here is the main rub, what folks say and do are usually vastly different.

when coke and twinkie sales go down, ala, crappy snack food, folks disconnect there cable tv, i'll be the first to jump on your side of the discussion

i'd have to go back and check my books but it is like clockwork, every ten years u have financial disaster, every 30 years u have an economic disaster on a national level, all of these are well documented in a historical nature, and the funny thing is not once have they led to lemmings jumping off of cliffs, money does not disappear it get's transferred

in texas between 1985 and 2002 u could buy all the oil wells and acreage for peanuts, after the last boom 80-84 prices staid the same for 17 years, even went down adjusted for inflation even though costs went up, so no one wanted these assets

and now they are making record profits, they also have record costs cause they have no expereinced labor force, they are all retired or going to retire, and there was zero inventory on the books for materials rigs etc., cause 17 years of no demand

again, it is leverage leverage leverage, let's say u are a history buff on war, yup war, what is the no. 1 thing u know, war creates a commodities boom because you got that unique combo of fear, have to have the stuff now, and at any price.

so the hedge boys have guys on staff who know this ****, so they lever up and buy earl, as the price goes up since it is levered they make huge sums, which they lever up again, since the world economy is going well and the oil producing countries would prefer it up rather than down, they help by keeping levels tight, u have a war that shuts down supply and u get a really good tight squeeze, the longer it goes on the more folks who must own oil, have too have it

now of course the funny part, no one has yet to go to a gas pump and had too wait in line

when everyone who owns it is making mulah no one wants it to come down and will do anything for it too come down, and one day it most likely will, who knows when though

my local gas station, who i'm friends with the owner makes a nickel a gallon, visa makes a dime, go figure, oh 70&#37; of folks use a credit card to buy gas

[horsepwr]

Re: Great Depression again?

70% put gas on credit? wow! I'm thinking they are counting all the pay-at-pump with debit/credit cards as credit sales. When really that comes right out of the bank. I know I always choose (credit) so I don't have to enter my pin number. It still comes right outa the bank account, but of coarse that's counted as a credit sale. I'm sure alot of people burn those gas cards up though. All the company gas cards...