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Tman it just depends on who you talk to most the people I know that have served over two tours dont think we should be there anymore...I dont know to many marines or people in the army only corpsman
Tman it just depends on who you talk to most the people I know that have served over two tours dont think we should be there anymore...I dont know to many marines or people in the army only corpsman
And I guess it all depends on what you see when you are over there too. There's a dude from church who leaves tomorrow and he doesn't want to go, but his duties only allow him to see one side of it. When he's over there (this is his 6th trip between this and first one) he always in the front lines doing the seek and destroy stuff. So, for him, it's always a nasty thing, people are dying almost everyday on his assignments. Not his men, but somebody and that takes a big toll on you. No one can go on killing people and not have it effect them. So, I understand that, but even he said today that those people deserve the same rights we do. Now, granted, he doesn't 'want' to die for them, but he's willing to fight for them. And unfortuantely, death is something that may happen as part of fighting. But, I guess it all depends on what you expereince over there. If the soldier doesn't see anything to give them hope then I could imagine they don't think it's worth it. But those who have seen things to give them hope, see think that it is worth it.
Never the less, it will be nice when it's over.
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
And I guess it all depends on what you see when you are over there too. There's a dude from church who leaves tomorrow and he doesn't want to go, but his duties only allow him to see one side of it. When he's over there (this is his 6th trip between this and first one) he always in the front lines doing the seek and destroy stuff. So, for him, it's always a nasty thing, people are dying almost everyday on his assignments. Not his men, but somebody and that takes a big toll on you. No one can go on killing people and not have it effect them. So, I understand that, but even he said today that those people deserve the same rights we do. Now, granted, he doesn't 'want' to die for them, but he's willing to fight for them. And unfortuantely, death is something that may happen as part of fighting. But, I guess it all depends on what you expereince over there. If the soldier doesn't see anything to give them hope then I could imagine they don't think it's worth it. But those who have seen things to give them hope, see think that it is worth it.
Never the less, it will be nice when it's over.
My bestfriend that has been to Iraq says it's all about the oil, that we blow up homes with no insurgents and innocent people in it, and that everything you see on TV is lies because they don't show you the true negative side of what's going on there.
Btw, he is not frontlines, and he actually works on base on planes and technical stuff. The only times he leaves base is when he has time off. So it's not just the front lines guys.
My bestfriend that has been to Iraq says it's all about the oil, that we blow up homes with no insurgents and innocent people in it, and that everything you see on TV is lies because they don't show you the true negative side of what's going on there.
Btw, he is not frontlines, and he actually works on base on planes and technical stuff. The only times he leaves base is when he has time off. So it's not just the front lines guys.
No offense, but if he's back on base all the time, how does he know what is actually going on out on the front lines? It's not like he's in a position to actually see it if he's on base working on stuff.
See, this is where the credibility thing comes into play. If you and I were both on the front lines and you said we were doing no good and I said we were, then that would be two credible opinions that would be worth something. But, if I was on the front line and you were on base all the time, I would have the more credible opinion of what is actually taking place on the front lines, don't you think?
Now, with that said, there is no doubt that innocent people get killed, that's war. The wrong homes will be destroyed from time to time. That is something that happens. I'm not down playing the deaths of innocent people, but how do you know for a fact they are innocent? In Nam, where my father was, they would kill enemies that were hiding in villages and the local media would report that ALL of the people were innocent villagers. That the US just killed everyone for no reason. Sorry, but I know my dad never killed anyone that wasn't shooting at him first. This is what they do. They twist the facts. They want you to think that everyone is innocent, they want you to think we aren't doing anything but killing innocent people. This is what people have done for years. They did it in Nam, Korea, Bosnia, Iraq, Afganistan, etc. The locals always try to play it off as if we just attacked a bunch of unarmed innocent people. Do you really think that our soldiers would just open fire on unarmed people? I don't because there are strict rules of engagement. You can not fire until fired upon so you can bet more times than not, if someone was shot, they had a gun first and it's not like anyone is going to stop and take photos to say 'see, they did have a gun'. No, they are going to take cover as soon as possible.
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
When the insurgents are killing them in groups of 50 or more at a time, that doesn't surprise me. The insurgents kidnap and kill other muslims that oppose them every single day over there. And, that's usually on the news everytime it happens.
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
No offense, but if he's back on base all the time, how does he know what is actually going on out on the front lines? It's not like he's in a position to actually see it if he's on base working on stuff.
See, this is where the credibility thing comes into play. If you and I were both on the front lines and you said we were doing no good and I said we were, then that would be two credible opinions that would be worth something. But, if I was on the front line and you were on base all the time, I would have the more credible opinion of what is actually taking place on the front lines, don't you think?
Now, with that said, there is no doubt that innocent people get killed, that's war. The wrong homes will be destroyed from time to time. That is something that happens. I'm not down playing the deaths of innocent people, but how do you know for a fact they are innocent? In Nam, where my father was, they would kill enemies that were hiding in villages and the local media would report that ALL of the people were innocent villagers. That the US just killed everyone for no reason. Sorry, but I know my dad never killed anyone that wasn't shooting at him first. This is what they do. They twist the facts. They want you to think that everyone is innocent, they want you to think we aren't doing anything but killing innocent people. This is what people have done for years. They did it in Nam, Korea, Bosnia, Iraq, Afganistan, etc. The locals always try to play it off as if we just attacked a bunch of unarmed innocent people. Do you really think that our soldiers would just open fire on unarmed people? I don't because there are strict rules of engagement. You can not fire until fired upon so you can bet more times than not, if someone was shot, they had a gun first and it's not like anyone is going to stop and take photos to say 'see, they did have a gun'. No, they are going to take cover as soon as possible.
On the response to merc you said that the soldiers probably think negative because they're on the frontlines and see all the negative stuff. So I gave you an example of someone that isn't on the frontlines and says the same stuff. This guy I'm speaking of doesn't complain, he just states facts, and says but I signed up so I gotta do what I gotta do. Very hardcore, not the type of guy that *****es and complains (kind of like I do haha).
On the credibility point and two different sides I get your point there. But you do have to admit there are many military people out there with a warped sense of reality, that actually enjoy killing people. I've met many myself. Completely nuts! They are the type you do want in the military, but at the same time you can't really trust what they say.
Also many people tend to try to convince themselves that what they're doing is right and just. Otherwise the guilt would eat them alive. It's easy for us all to spout off at the mouth here at home, but these people are going through traumatic life altering events. Sometimes you have to lie to yourself to keep sane. Then they start to believe the lies they tell themselves.
Many normal people that aren't soldiers lie to themselves like that too. My other best friend is the biggest liar in the world. He tells so many tales he has trouble keeping them straight. But the insane thing is he actually starts to believe his own lies. He even gets defensive when I start calling him on his lies. It's a psychological defense people use to cover up the truth so it doesn't hurt them or haunt them.
And about your father and nam. He didn't kill innocents because he was a good guy. It's not because it didn't happen. Again there are those crazy dudes that kill for the fun of it. You know exactly the type I'm talking about. It's heros like your father that make this country great. It's the other few that ruin it for the rest.
Just like our entire government isn't corrupt, but it's like a cancer cell that is going out of control. If you don't stop it in it's tracks it's going to kill you. It's been proven time and time again that there is corruption in the government, even up to the presidential seat sometimes. Look at Watergate, that was corruption at it's finest!
So people think I'm anti-government because of my statements. I'm not anti-government........I'm against those that corrupt the system, government, and country I believe in!
Great points bro! But, to clarify, I didn't actually say that the soldiers on the front line 'think' negatively, I said the guy I know sees the worst of it but still feels they deserve the same rights we do.
And yes, you are right, there are guys who are psycho but they are less and less these days. The military give psyche tests from what I've been told and depending on how some guys score will depend on how they are placed. For instance, if there is someone who will go in balls to the walls and not give a crap, that guy doesn't get put on assignments that require a delicate touch. But, on an assignment where they need that kind of guy, he's at the top of the list. Guys are placed based on what they have to offer. They don't just throw them all together like they used to back in Nam and stuff. With my dad, he was a Paratrooper and so his men were more highly trained that some guys so they showed more discipline than platoons that were just thrown together.
But yeah, I do agree there are people who would kill just to kill but the military has ways of finding most of them ahead of time with testing and stuff. Of course, that too can change once you get into battle. You could be one cool cat and then you take a shot to the head that grazes your helmet and totally changes your whole mind set. You just never know what going to happen to guy after he gets shot at by some one who wants to kill them. Some guys woudl probably just start firing at everything, others would take cover, get their barrings and then respond. It's a thing that you can never prepare for. No matter what you do in training, it's not the same as battle.
But, all and all, I do agree, there are always going to be loose cannons and there are always going to be people who lie about who was killed and how many and that all of them were innocent. If in fact the community was hiding insurgents, why wouldn't they lie?
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
I know im gonna get crap for this, but my point is they have already spent how many billions there and for what?? Their democracy?? what a joke, lol! What about our ppl here in need? Our ppl without medical care, wanting to inpose more taxes here, while our economy is at its lowest, etc.. the list goes on, but here we keep spending and spending with no apparent strategy on how to end this. We have 18-20 something yr olds that really are swayed to sign up and enlist, many with no other options in life, and to me...for what?? to die possibly for some other country that really doesn't give a damn about usa anyways?, while we risk our own security because we are sending too many troops there. I know that there are innocent ppl there, but at what cost to us here? It to me is laughable. Now i must download this video. Wow 1-1/2hrs, lol! Ill have to watch it tomorrow as it will take long time to dl it.
I know im gonna get crap for this, but my point is they have already spent how many billions there and for what?? Their democracy?? what a joke, lol! What about our ppl here in need? Our ppl without medical care, wanting to inpose more taxes here, while our economy is at its lowest, etc.. the list goes on, but here we keep spending and spending with no apparent strategy on how to end this. We have 18-20 something yr olds that really are swayed to sign up and enlist, many with no other options in life, and to me...for what?? to die possibly for some other country that really doesn't give a damn about usa anyways?, while we risk our own security because we are sending too many troops there. I know that there are innocent ppl there, but at what cost to us here? It to me is laughable. Now i must download this video. Wow 1-1/2hrs, lol! Ill have to watch it tomorrow as it will take long time to dl it.
Well said! I'm one of the many that's without insurance. It's just to unaffordable with insurance monopolies in Florida charging me over $3000 a year for a 1000 sq/ft home. That + gas prices that have doubled = not enough money to buy necesseties like insurance.
Why do you have to download the vid? It should be click and play.
On the response to merc you said that the soldiers probably think negative because they're on the frontlines and see all the negative stuff. So I gave you an example of someone that isn't on the frontlines and says the same stuff. This guy I'm speaking of doesn't complain, he just states facts, and says but I signed up so I gotta do what I gotta do. Very hardcore, not the type of guy that *****es and complains (kind of like I do haha).
On the credibility point and two different sides I get your point there. But you do have to admit there are many military people out there with a warped sense of reality, that actually enjoy killing people. I've met many myself. Completely nuts! They are the type you do want in the military, but at the same time you can't really trust what they say.
Also many people tend to try to convince themselves that what they're doing is right and just. Otherwise the guilt would eat them alive. It's easy for us all to spout off at the mouth here at home, but these people are going through traumatic life altering events. Sometimes you have to lie to yourself to keep sane. Then they start to believe the lies they tell themselves.
Many normal people that aren't soldiers lie to themselves like that too. My other best friend is the biggest liar in the world. He tells so many tales he has trouble keeping them straight. But the insane thing is he actually starts to believe his own lies. He even gets defensive when I start calling him on his lies. It's a psychological defense people use to cover up the truth so it doesn't hurt them or haunt them.
And about your father and nam. He didn't kill innocents because he was a good guy. It's not because it didn't happen. Again there are those crazy dudes that kill for the fun of it. You know exactly the type I'm talking about. It's heros like your father that make this country great. It's the other few that ruin it for the rest.
Just like our entire government isn't corrupt, but it's like a cancer cell that is going out of control. If you don't stop it in it's tracks it's going to kill you. It's been proven time and time again that there is corruption in the government, even up to the presidential seat sometimes. Look at Watergate, that was corruption at it's finest!
So people think I'm anti-government because of my statements. I'm not anti-government........I'm against those that corrupt the system, government, and country I believe in!
I do see your point. But I bet it's more like the don't ask don't tell policy. They are hurting for people now, so I'm betting there not being so strict on the type of people they let in.
I've read all these post and this **** is cracking me up!!! We're basing Television, Media, and some 1.5hr video as the fricking Gospel sent down from Heaven to judge our county, fellow brothers in arms, and ourselves...WTF????
I just watched Superman fly on TV but the reality is he's laying 6ft. under in a wood box. There's a difference in reality and television. (ie. media,video,etc.)
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage and Strength to change the things I can...And Wisdom to know the difference."
im not really sure what your trying to say?..were given pieces of information, some being propoganda and some facts--all we can do is put together what were given from differesnt sources and form an opinion..i dont think/hope noones claiming to know absolute truth
im not really sure what your trying to say?..were given pieces of information, some being propoganda and some facts--all we can do is put together what were given from differesnt sources and form an opinion..i dont think/hope noones claiming to know absolute truth
I've read all these post and this **** is cracking me up!!! We're basing Television, Media, and some 1.5hr video as the fricking Gospel sent down from Heaven to judge our county, fellow brothers in arms, and ourselves...WTF????
I just watched Superman fly on TV but the reality is he's laying 6ft. under in a wood box. There's a difference in reality and television. (ie. media,video,etc.)
Okay in that case everything you learned in books in school, or in videos in school is not reality either. Also when you watch sports that's not reality it's only what you see on tv. When you read autobiography of players, or politicians it's not reality. When you see a documentary that's all fake too.
Get my point. Just because it's on tv, or in a movie, or in a book doesn't make it false. That's why your supposed to watch both views of whatever and make an educated decision.
With that said I've yet to hear anyone tell me that the firemen that said that they not only heard, but a few were blew back into the air by bombs in the twin tower were lying. These are respectable men that had nothing to gain by saying something like that. Plus they said it in direct interviews DURING the whole ordeal with the twin towers. So again I'd like for someone to tell me how every single one of these firemen that are all saying the same thing aren't credible, and what they have to gain by saying that stuff?
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to change the things I can...And Wisdom to know the difference."
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