No time limit for soldiers?!

[T-Man007]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

^ in reagard to the firemen...just how can they tell the difference between the sound of a bomb and the sound of exploding gas lines or gas tanks. The entire heating system of the building used natural gas and as soon as the fire heated up enough it would have sent the combustion all the way down the gas line cause explosions all the way down. It's the same as when a house blows up due to a gas fire, there are multiple explosions as the fire travels down the gas line. Unless you are an expert at the sound of bombs, you wouldn't know the explosion of a gas line from TNT, C-4 or any other material.

Also, I know for a fact there are several materials used in explosives, which one did they hear? Was it TNT, was it C-4, or what?

You see where I'm going with this? Gas is fed through a line from the basement up, so the explosion would have traveled down the line, not up as in a demolition. And, it's clear from the video of the buildings falling they fell from the top down, not from the ground first. That's why some people who were still in the lower level actually made it out while it was coming down? If this was a controlled demo, then the explostions would have come from the ground first. That's how a demo works.

And again, iron doesn't have to melt to give out, it just has to get weaker. Jet fuel, plus office furniture, plus paper, plus everything else with a huge amount of oxygen to feed it, is going to get extremely hot in an enclosed box. Think about it like this, build a fire in the open and measure the temp of the fire from say 3 feet away. Then, build a fire with the exact same materials and place it in a brick enclosure with an opening to let oxygen in and measure it. Now, I don't know how hot the fire in the open would be, but the fire in the brick enclosure would quickly exceed 800 degrees. And that's just from wood. How do I know this, well, the Italian Restaraunt I used to managed specialized in brick oven pizza and the over would stay between 775 and 825 degrees. We actually got it up to 950 once by putting to much wood in. Take the same principle but use jet fuel, furniture, etc and a hole to let oxygen in and there's no way to know how hot the fire was in the buildign that day unless someone could have measured it. But, for some reason, people are too focused on the temp at which fuel burns as if that was the only thing burning.

I watched the video and I do not believe for one second that it was a demo or some set up explosions. I think it was the gas line exploding as it went down. Call me wrong if you want, but that's my opinion and to 'me' it's the most logical one based on 'my' observation of the data. Well, that and my understanding of construction and what I've learned about demo since all this happened.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

^ in reagard to the firemen...just how can they tell the difference between the sound of a bomb and the sound of exploding gas lines or gas tanks. The entire heating system of the building used natural gas and as soon as the fire heated up enough it would have sent the combustion all the way down the gas line cause explosions all the way down. It's the same as when a house blows up due to a gas fire, there are multiple explosions as the fire travels down the gas line. Unless you are an expert at the sound of bombs, you wouldn't know the explosion of a gas line from TNT, C-4 or any other material.

Also, I know for a fact there are several materials used in explosives, which one did they hear? Was it TNT, was it C-4, or what?

You see where I'm going with this? Gas is fed through a line from the basement up, so the explosion would have traveled down the line, not up as in a demolition. And, it's clear from the video of the buildings falling they fell from the top down, not from the ground first. That's why some people who were still in the lower level actually made it out while it was coming down? If this was a controlled demo, then the explostions would have come from the ground first. That's how a demo works.

And again, iron doesn't have to melt to give out, it just has to get weaker. Jet fuel, plus office furniture, plus paper, plus everything else with a huge amount of oxygen to feed it, is going to get extremely hot in an enclosed box. Think about it like this, build a fire in the open and measure the temp of the fire from say 3 feet away. Then, build a fire with the exact same materials and place it in a brick enclosure with an opening to let oxygen in and measure it. Now, I don't know how hot the fire in the open would be, but the fire in the brick enclosure would quickly exceed 800 degrees. And that's just from wood. How do I know this, well, the Italian Restaraunt I used to managed specialized in brick oven pizza and the over would stay between 775 and 825 degrees. We actually got it up to 950 once by putting to much wood in. Take the same principle but use jet fuel, furniture, etc and a hole to let oxygen in and there's no way to know how hot the fire was in the buildign that day unless someone could have measured it. But, for some reason, people are too focused on the temp at which fuel burns as if that was the only thing burning.

I watched the video and I do not believe for one second that it was a demo or some set up explosions. I think it was the gas line exploding as it went down. Call me wrong if you want, but that's my opinion and to 'me' it's the most logical one based on 'my' observation of the data. Well, that and my understanding of construction and what I've learned about demo since all this happened.

Yeah but the key point is you said it would blow up as it went down. It wouldn't make a trip to the basement.....then blow up. Then a few seconds later blow up on the other side of the basement. Then when the building collapses blow at all of the strategic points causing squibs to ruch air out of the sides of the building. They say they used thermite (government grade demolition) that melts metal into a liquid form. I don't know what type of charge they used though. I don't remember if they found out what it was or not.

As for steel getting weaker and not having to melt, I get where your thought process is going there, and it would be logical. There's one problem though.....If the steel got weaker it would have been weaker where the fire was (at the top of the building). So with that said the building would have fell floor, into floor, into floor. It wouldn't have fell in less than 9 seconds and be reduced to a pile of nothing.

Also if you watch when the tower fell it was going sideways (which would have fell into it's neighboring buildings) then the explosions, followed with squibs which brought it right into it's own basement. Just like a planned demolition.

All of the central beams that were the main infrastructure of the building were cut at perfect angles which is a common trick used by demo experts to make the building "walk" off it's foundation. If it was fire and the impact of the plane that cause the failure the beams in the basement wouldn't be cut at perfect angles.

What about building 7? It sustained almost no damage compared to all of the other wtc building around it and it came down for no reason. The owner or lease holder for the WTC towers said he told them to pull it. Later he says he meant pull the firemen not the building. When the fire chiefs were all asked they were told they had already been evacuated from the building many many hours before he ordered to PULL IT.

When you see the pics of building 7, and the other buildings it makes one say "there is no logical way those building are that destroyed and still standing, yet that building that was virtually untouched falls because of some fires!"

By the way in human history no steel building has ever fell from fire, until 9/11. There's buildings that were the worst a fire gets, burning for 20+ hours completely destroying the building, but it never fell. Not even slightly. So we're supposed to believe that after 2 or 3 hours of some pockets of fire that that building fell?

Those same building were on fire from the wtc bombs in the 90's. They didn't fall then and there was a bomb that assisted them. So what could possibly cause it now?

Lastly, as for your gas line explanation. Although that does sound logical, wouldn't you think that NYFD firemen would know the difference? This is what they do for a living. I think they would know enough to shut the gas lines to that building if that were a danger. Also if that was the cause I'm guessing they've dealt with exploding gas lines before. They clearly said it was almost if it was a planned demolition.

On the fire end of it, a firemen said over a radio transmission that it was only two small pockets of fire where the plane hit. That it could be easily controlled. That doesn't sound like the type of flame that would cause a building to fail. And I betting this guy knows how to differentiate a controllable flame to one that's out of control.

The NYFD are supposed to be the best in the country. I think they are a very very credible source. Just my opinion but I don't see any reason why they all of a sudden don't know their own job, or why they would make up stories that match across the board.

[T-Man007]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

Well, from what I watched, the towers fell from up to down. The areas above the plane fell first and the lower part was the last to go. That's how I saw it. You asked me to look at it, and that's just how I see it. I don't believe after what I saw that it was a demo because a demo takes literally weeks, even months to set up. There's no way that could have been done without somebody seeing it done. It's not something that easy to hide, there would be wires everywhere. And, most demos are done with wired connections to ensure proper detonation. Where were all the wires. No demo of that size uses wireless detonation because of the possible misfire that would result in the building falling the wrong way. They use wired explosives. Like I said bro, I've looked into this since it's happened, and the facts I've discovered don't add up to what you believe. But, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that 'my' personal understanding of these things, leads me in a different direction.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

Well, from what I watched, the towers fell from up to down. The areas above the plane fell first and the lower part was the last to go. That's how I saw it. You asked me to look at it, and that's just how I see it. I don't believe after what I saw that it was a demo because a demo takes literally weeks, even months to set up. There's no way that could have been done without somebody seeing it done. It's not something that easy to hide, there would be wires everywhere. And, most demos are done with wired connections to ensure proper detonation. Where were all the wires. No demo of that size uses wireless detonation because of the possible misfire that would result in the building falling the wrong way. They use wired explosives. Like I said bro, I've looked into this since it's happened, and the facts I've discovered don't add up to what you believe. But, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that 'my' personal understanding of these things, leads me in a different direction.

Rewatch the fall of the towers and you'll see the top half go to fall sideways, then all of a sudden the bottom blows out at all three strategic points to make it come straight down as opposed to falling on it's neighbors.

I don't know if your aware but each of the twin towers were three high rise buildings stacked on top of each other. The explosions on the video's (that were on cnn and such) were at all of the strategic points that connect high rise to high rise. When demo crews were interviewed they all convened that, that is exactly where they would have set thier charges if they were contracted to do the job.

Furthermore Securacom (the company that did security for the twin towers) Notified everyone 3 weeks in advance that they would be shutting down all of the power for the twin towers on the weekend before 9/11 to rewire the whole buildings internet cabling. When the power was shut down that included security camera's and all. No security proof, shut down all the power, evacuated employees? Doesn't sound to hard to wire at all! They could have easily gained access since they were the security company, and planned everything out so they could set it up in a weekend.

Also all bomb sniffing dogs that were always on for security since the 93 wtc bombings were ordered from that weekend on, to not be on site. Why were the bomb dogs told not to come in? What would they have discovered?

Did I mention that Securacom's CEO was Bush's younger brother, and it's currently his cousin?

Lastly the owner on the lease took a 3 billion dollar insurance policy on the twin towers 4 months prior which was to include terror attacks. Since both planes hit he was given 7 million after fighting in court because he said it was two seperate attacks! Yeah he had alot to lose!

Did you also know that the WTC building had a bunch of asbestos that was to be removed in order to be legal? It was going to cost 1 Billion to remove and no insurance company would cover it for him. Also the building was too far behind the times and was costing them more to run and upkeep than it was worth.

So again any motive or anything gained by the fall of the towers?

OBVIOUSLY!!

[solidground]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

what about the owner larry silverstein admitting that he pulled building 7 on a pbs special?? weeks before he boughtr into a multi million $ insurance coverage for the sears tower and all the wtc..

"You see where I'm going with this? Gas is fed through a line from the basement up, so the explosion would have traveled down the line, not up as in a demolition. And, it's clear from the video of the buildings falling they fell from the top down, not from the ground first. That's why some people who were still in the lower level actually made it out while it was coming down? If this was a controlled demo, then the explostions would have come from the ground first. That's how a demo works".

if they did it that way wouldnt it be obvious it was a demolition??obviously they dont want people thinking there were bombs and explosives.

your (general) gonna believe what you believe and i honestly think if everyone involved admitted they were responsible many people would still not accept it..its just a hard pill to swallow.

[T-Man007]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

Rewatch the fall of the towers and you'll see the top half go to fall sideways, then all of a sudden the bottom blows out at all three strategic points to make it come straight down as opposed to falling on it's neighbors.

I don't know if your aware but each of the twin towers were three high rise buildings stacked on top of each other. The explosions on the video's (that were on cnn and such) were at all of the strategic points that connect high rise to high rise. When demo crews were interviewed they all convened that, that is exactly where they would have set thier charges if they were contracted to do the job.

Furthermore Securacom (the company that did security for the twin towers) Notified everyone 3 weeks in advance that they would be shutting down all of the power for the twin towers on the weekend before 9/11 to rewire the whole buildings internet cabling. When the power was shut down that included security camera's and all. No security proof, shut down all the power, evacuated employees? Doesn't sound to hard to wire at all! They could have easily gained access since they were the security company, and planned everything out so they could set it up in a weekend.

Also all bomb sniffing dogs that were always on for security since the 93 wtc bombings were ordered from that weekend on, to not be on site. Why were the bomb dogs told not to come in? What would they have discovered?

Did I mention that Securacom's CEO was Bush's younger brother, and it's currently his cousin?

Lastly the owner on the lease took a 3 billion dollar insurance policy on the twin towers 4 months prior which was to include terror attacks. Since both planes hit he was given 7 million after fighting in court because he said it was two seperate attacks! Yeah he had alot to lose!

Did you also know that the WTC building had a bunch of asbestos that was to be removed in order to be legal? It was going to cost 1 Billion to remove and no insurance company would cover it for him. Also the building was too far behind the times and was costing them more to run and upkeep than it was worth.

So again any motive or anything gained by the fall of the towers?

OBVIOUSLY!!

Ok, let's say this was all a set up and Bush is behind the whole thing? Why not just do it on a weekend? Why do it on a Teusday when more people are in the building? I just have a hard time believing that this man could be part of a conspiracy to kill that many Americans just for things like Asbestos and what not. Sorry, I know you can and that's where we differ. I respect the fact that you hate the guy, but I just don't buy into it. That's all. Nice debate and you made great points bro, but it's just kinda out there for me to swallow. I will admit it's not impossible, by I just don't buy it. However, I have been wrong about people so I'm just basing this on my feelings.

[T-Man007]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

what about the owner larry silverstein admitting that he pulled building 7 on a pbs special?? weeks before he boughtr into a multi million $ insurance coverage for the sears tower and all the wtc..

"You see where I'm going with this? Gas is fed through a line from the basement up, so the explosion would have traveled down the line, not up as in a demolition. And, it's clear from the video of the buildings falling they fell from the top down, not from the ground first. That's why some people who were still in the lower level actually made it out while it was coming down? If this was a controlled demo, then the explostions would have come from the ground first. That's how a demo works".

if they did it that way wouldnt it be obvious it was a demolition??obviously they dont want people thinking there were bombs and explosives.

your (general) gonna believe what you believe and i honestly think if everyone involved admitted they were responsible many people would still not accept it..its just a hard pill to swallow.

You are right, it is a hard pill to swallow. I guess I look at it like this, to have a preprepped demo that was secretly put in place and that went off at exactly the right time to correct a building slightly falling in one direction is a long shot. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but think about all the factors that had to be exactly perfect to do something like that. The building starts falling, then is slightly goes to one side and in a split second some human being is going to be fast enough to know exactly which charge to detonate to correct it. I would have to guess the odds of that happening that perfect would be as high as winning the lotto. I mean, we are talking about a perfect split second desicion by a human. A human who would have to be able to blow a charge, a very specific charge, so fast that I guess I just don't see it. I know there are some talented humans but you have to put yourself in the situation. Imagine, you are aware that two planes are going to hit the WTCs, you are also aware that thousands of people are going to get killed, yet you calmly sit and wait until the towers start to fall and then you are able to make a split second detonation to correct how a building is falling, I just don't know any human who could sit there and watch people jumping to their dethas, burning alive and yet still be so perfectly accurate on their timing of a split second detonation. That to me, is impossible.

Like I said, I looked at it and this is one of the many reasons I just don't buy it. Also, it had to be a wired detonation to be so precise and therefore they would have had to be close enough to watch this. What kind of person can watch such a thing and still be that focused? Also, I know they didn't use any kind of cell phone or anything because shortly after the second plane hit, the entire Manhattan area's phones were in grid lock. You couldn't call in or call out which ment basically all wireless signals would have been frozen. So, lets say it was some other kind of wireless device that was totally independant of all satelites and everything. Like walkie talkies, for example. You still have the impossible task of some human being sending the exact signla to the correct explosive in a split second, that to me, is impossible. Well, at least as impossible as the lotto. Someone does win, but hundreds of thousands lose. The odds just don't add up in my opinion that someone could pull off such a feat on the very first try. And then, after seeing all those people crushed to death, have the ability to do it again when the next one fell. It's too perfect, thus, it's just not plausable to me.

[solidground]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

bush has nothing to do with it, anyone who thinks so doesnt know much and gives us "conspiracy theorists" a bad name..when you think of whats possible or not please consider the real people behind this are the richest most recourseful people ion the world

[T-Man007]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

bush has nothing to do with it, anyone who thinks so doesnt know much and gives us "conspiracy theorists" a bad name..when you think of whats possible or not please consider the real people behind this are the richest most recourseful people ion the world

Like who?

[T-Man007]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

^^ not trying to be rude, just looking for a deeper understanding.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

Ok, let's say this was all a set up and Bush is behind the whole thing? Why not just do it on a weekend? Why do it on a Teusday when more people are in the building? I just have a hard time believing that this man could be part of a conspiracy to kill that many Americans just for things like Asbestos and what not. Sorry, I know you can and that's where we differ. I respect the fact that you hate the guy, but I just don't buy into it. That's all. Nice debate and you made great points bro, but it's just kinda out there for me to swallow. I will admit it's not impossible, by I just don't buy it. However, I have been wrong about people so I'm just basing this on my feelings.

Well I have a deeper understanding for Bush thanks to you. He is smarter than people make him out to be. Like you said just when they think they got him, he gets away again.

Bush said a few years before 9/11 that america needed another pearl harbor in order for the public to accept going into Iraq.

Plus if an empty building fell, do you think that really would have as much of an impact on the american public, as it did when all of those people died in those towers? All of the songs that hit home, watching people jump off the buildings, hearing the desperate calls to 911 and such. That stuff all hit home and even I who highly is against joining the military, was about to enlist because I was so enraged at what happened.

The fall of the towers did it's job. It cleared itself to build a new building cost free to the owner with nothing to lose and everything to gain, and it caused record enlistments, and the acceptance of the american people to go to war with any country that could possibly have terrorists. Very very smart plan indeed.

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

Like who?

I think he's referring to the NWO, whom the Bush family is part of.

I feel bush definitely has his hands in this. His family had the security contract and shut the building down including security the weekend before 9/11 for rewiring. They've never done that before. Now coincidentally they shut everything down, and two days later the building falls?

You mentioned your whole disbelief from the demolition side. I personally had no understanding for it. That video I was referring to a few times explained each and every aspect of that. They even showed opposing views from people that didn't buy into it.

[solidground]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

the illuminati..the new world order ia a movement fora one world govt, the illuminati are the people behind it, wish i knew all the people , but noone does.Rothschilds are definately part of it along with the rockefellers, the major world bankers, major corporations owners, members of trilateral commision and the bildeberg...just search illuminati

[DJDIGGLER]

Re: No time limit for soldiers?!

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL!!

WSJ: 50 Active-Duty Officers To Deliver Petition Against More Troops To Congress...

Wall Street Journal
Monday, January 15, 2007

Vocal opposition to President's Bush's strategy of sending more than 20,000 additional troops to help secure Iraq has grown to include some of the troops themselves.

A group of more than 50 active-duty military officers will deliver a petition to Congress on Tuesday signed by about 1,000 troops calling for an end to the U.S. occupation of Iraq. "Any troop increase over here will just produce more sitting ducks, more targets," said Sergeant Ronn Cantu, who is serving in Iraq.