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I'LL ADMIT, I'M NOT UP ON CHRITIANITY...BUT, YOU SAID "CHRISTIANS DO NOT BELIEVE CHRIST WAS BORN IN DECEMBER"?...I DONT THINK I'VE MET THOSE CHRITIANS....
Well the christians that study that type of thing.... It was fall or spring when he was actually born, I can't remember but Im an atheist it's not my job to remember.
Good point Mick! But I've known some people who claim to have no religion whatsoever but yet they do indeed celebrate Christmas and Easter. Not a lot, but some. However, I've met more non-believers on this board than I have my whole life. So that's why I put the question out there, to see if maybe they could explain it to me. Of course, if they truely don't believe and they don't celebrate either holiday then that would coincide with their beliefs. I'm just curious what the non-believer is actually celebrating.
Family...
those are recognized holidays so most everyone gets them off so what better time to get together with family and eat and VISIT
I am in no way stating my beliefs, family just came to mind after reading the first few posts....
---------------------------------------------------------------- "To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world."
---------------------------------------------------------------- Aerobics: a series of strenuous exercises which help convert fats, sugars, and starch into aches, pains and cramps! (that's why I don't do 'em LOL)
I'LL ADMIT, I'M NOT UP ON CHRITIANITY...BUT, YOU SAID "CHRISTIANS DO NOT BELIEVE CHRIST WAS BORN IN DECEMBER"?...I DONT THINK I'VE MET THOSE CHRITIANS....
hey dav and everyone else!
The Christian world generally celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ on the 25th of December, but it is highly unlikely that this is the date of His birth. God doesn't provide any information in scripture on the specific day of Christ's birth, but if we would work it out from the Jewish Priestly courses in the biblical record, we would probably conclude that Jesus was born in the Fall of the year sometime between September and October.
In truth, the actual day is insignificant in the celebration of His birth, because we are not commanded to, nor are we commanded not to observe it. Those of us who do, choose to do it as a special remembrance of the "Gift of God!" While we indeed celebrate his birth on every day of the year, we can also choose to set aside a day for special celebration.
But the question arises, can we know the actual year of the Lord's birth? From my studies I conclude that we can know with relative (yet not absolute) certainty from the evidence in scripture, and make a strong Biblical case that Christ was born in 7 B.C. The circumstantial evidence in the scriptures also point to that year, and secular information agrees favorably. From the Biblical record, there are some things that we can know with certainty.
Matthew 2:16
"then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men."
Matthew 2:1 tells us that the birth of Jesus Christ was at the time when king Herod the Great, ruled! He wanted to kill Jesus (matthew 2:13) and told the wise men to bring back word to him about the child. But they (being warned of God -Matthew 2:12) never returned unto Herod. Here in matthew 2:16 we note carefully from the infallible Biblical record that two years had passed since King Herod had enquired of the wise men, and it was only "then" that he proceeded to kill the children of Bethlehem in an attempt to destroy Christ. Reliable secular records states that king Herod died 37 years from the time the Romans declared him King, and 34 years from the time he actually became King. That places his death at 4 B.C. Therefore if the Biblical record is correct (we know it is) Jesus had to have been born before 4 B.C. And considering that two years passed after King Herod had enquired of the wise men, and before he had the Children of bethlehem killed, we can add at least another two years to the date (He obviously, was alive 2 years "after" he enquired of the wise men to make this proclamation). So it is clear Jesus must have been born at least sometime around or before 6 B.C. (4+2=6). We also know from the biblical record that considerable time must have elapsed between Jesus' birth and King Herod's death, because after that 2 years passed, Joseph took Mary and Jesus into Egypt to escape the death edict.
Matthew 2:14-15
"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night and departed into Egypt:
and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet saying, Out of Egypt have I called My Son."
And they they did not leave Egypt until after Herod's death (Matt, 2:19-20). Considering that it is highly unlikely Herod died as soon as he made the proclamation to kill all the Children of Bethlehem and Jesus went into Egypt (we can reasonably assume some time passed after he made his death edict, before he himself died), the likely date of Christ's birth would biblically and logically be assumed as sometime in 7 B.C.
There is other Biblical data which also points to the year 7 B.C. as the likely year of Christ's birth. Not the least of which is that 7 B.C. was a Jubilee [yowbel] year, which commemorates the year of liberty by the blowing of the Ram's horn. We know that God uses Holy days as "types" which point to the reality, and so it would certainly be in line with prophetic scripture that God would bring such a momentous occasion as Christ's Birth to fulfillment, by denoting it in such a Holy Year as the Jubilee. The Year of Liberty! Christ was born to proclaim liberty.
The Jubilee
The Jubilee was the fiftieth year after seven sevens (or weeks of years) when the land was to experience a Sabbath of rest. What better year for our Lord (our Sabbath of rest) to come than in the Jubilee year. It is in Him that our work would cease.
Leviticus 25:9-12
"than shall thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
and ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a Jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
A Jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
for it is a Jubilee; it shall be Holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field."
Holy days and years always point to something, and they can never point to nothing. The Jubilee year points to Christ, our sabbath of Rest wherein we are born into Christian liberty and cease from our works. What better year for Christ to be born than this year of Liberty. Every fifty years from the entrance into canaan in 1407 B.C. to the first 7x7 plus 50th (Jubilee Year) in 1357 B.C., to exactly 28 Jubilee years later, brings us to 7 B.C. [see "The Biblical Time line" study] and 7 A.D. fits perfectly as the year of our Lord's Birth.
Another scripture which seems to point to a jubilee year as the time relating to the Lord's coming is the prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.
Daniel 9:25
"know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
When we compare scripture with scriptures the seven sevens (weeks) points us back to Leviticus and the seven sevens of the Jubilee year. The coming of Messiah is intimately identified with this Jubilee year of 7 B.C.
It is also interesting to note that 7 B.C. is exactly 2000 years from the year that Jacob (Israel) was born (2007 B.C.) and we know that Christ is the Israel of God! Therefore it follows (knowing that God does nothing by coincidence), that Christ would be born on this date. i.e., the birth of Israel.
We also note that 7 B.C. is exactly 1000 years after David ascended to the throne to reign in 1007 B.C., and we know that David is a "type" of Christ, who was born king of Israel.
Matthew 2:1-2
"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him".
Christ is born king of Israel and exactly 1000 years after David ascended to the throne, which again brings us to 7 B.C.
In connection with John's birth (6 months prior to our Lord's) and the Priestly office of Zecharias, there is also a great deal of evidence which would lead us to believe that Jesus might have been born on the Day of atonement in the month of Tisri (Lev. 25:9), which was the ushering in of the Jubilee year of 7 B.C., or the feast of tabernacles. The Census would have drawn Joseph and Mary to be counted.
It's interesting that there had previously been some secular speculation that there was no census because no one could find any records. But Archaeological finds indeed showed that the scriptures are accurate (not that Christians doubted it) when they discovered that the Romans had a regular enrollment of taxpayers, and that Augustus Caesar began a census that took place every 14 years. A papyrus found in Egypt states:
"Because of the approaching census it is necessary that all those residing for any cause away from their home should at once prepare to return to their own governments in order that they may complete the family registration of the enrollment."
This of course would also explain why Mary and Joseph found no room in the Inn, as Jerusalem and the neighboring communities would have no doubt been inundated with Jews who would have come from all over Israel to celebrate the Jubilee and feast days of the seventh month.
God's Word is clear that God's Holy Days look forward to (are a shadow of) God's plan for our Salvation, through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. It is therefore more than reasonable to surmise that as He fulfilled His holy days exactly on the dates of the Jewish calendar, He would also fulfil the Jubilee exactly on the dates of the Jewish calendar. In the 7th month, and perhaps even on the day of atonement.
Our conclusion therefore, based on all the Biblical evidence at hand, is that Jesus Christ was "likely" born in 7 B.C., and that a biblical case can be made that He was born sometime between September and October, near the month of Tishri.
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
I've always wondered why people who don't believe in God would celebrate the birth of Gods son. Everyone knows that Christmas is the recognition of Christ's birth. Who here celebrates the birth of Christ but yet doesn't not believe in him, and why?
from a person who couldnt give a fck about christ or God
bc it's a celebration of our families that get together all at the same time, eating nice big meals, exchanging thoughtful gifts
sorry if that offends you... It's not like we bake a cake and sing happy bday to chirst lmao
from a person who couldnt give a fck about christ or God
bc it's a celebration of our families that get together all at the same time, eating nice big meals, exchanging thoughtful gifts
sorry if that offends you... It's not like we bake a cake and sing happy bday to chirst lmao
That's my point, why do it on December 25th? Why not another day? December 25th has always been CHRISTmas, not family get together day. That's what Thanksgiving is. I'm not offended, just puzzled. The only Holiday celebrated on December 25th is Christmas. Look at any calander, it doesn't read 'Family get together and exchange thoughtfull gifts' day, it reads 'Christmas'. So, why that day. Why not just skip that day like the Jews, Muslims, Buddist, and everyone else does? That's all I'm asking. Why pick Christmas, no matter what a person thinks, they day is still called CHRISTMAS.
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
That's my point, why do it on December 25th? Why not another day? December 25th has always been CHRISTmas, not family get together day. That's what Thanksgiving is. I'm not offended, just puzzled. The only Holiday celebrated on December 25th is Christmas. Look at any calander, it doesn't read 'Family get together and exchange thoughtfull gifts' day, it reads 'Christmas'. So, why that day. Why not just skip that day like the Jews, Muslims, Buddist, and everyone else does? That's all I'm asking. Why pick Christmas, no matter what a person thinks, they day is still called CHRISTMAS.
bc my family celebrates it and we all get together and do the aforementioned and if i said "im not celebrating this b/c i dont belive in religion" i would be the biggest douche bag ever..... Oh and my entire family would probably just laugh at ne,
I guess i see how it puzzles you, but i dont see why you would care either. The Christians can celebrate christ and i guess us non believers can celebrate life?
bc my family celebrates it and we all get together and do the aforementioned and if i said "im not celebrating this b/c i dont belive in religion" i would be the biggest douche bag ever..... Oh and my entire family would probably just laugh at ne,
I guess i see how it puzzles you, but i dont see why you would care either. The Christians can celebrate christ and i guess us non believers can celebrate life?
Ok, you answered my question. You do it because your family does it. That's what I wanted to know.
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
Yeah pretty much... MOST of my family is agnostic, a LOT of them don't believe and there actually are a decent % that are full blown catholics... But yes, thats the ultimate reason, my family does it, it's a family tradition reguardless whether it's being politically correct I guess
Does it bother you i celebrate X-Mas too or are you just more confused if anything? If u're confused I'll have you know generatoins before me were raised R. catholic... so in a way it kinda evolved into tradition
Yeah pretty much... MOST of my family is agnostic, a LOT of them don't believe and there actually are a decent % that are full blown catholics... But yes, thats the ultimate reason, my family does it, it's a family tradition reguardless whether it's being politically correct I guess
Does it bother you i celebrate X-Mas too or are you just more confused if anything? If u're confused I'll have you know generatoins before me were raised R. catholic... so in a way it kinda evolved into tradition
It doesn't bother me at all bro. I'm actually glad you have family that celebrates it for what it is. And I'm not confused at all, I just wondered why and you answered that. No more confussion.
I used to have superhuman powers....until my therapist took them away.
from a person who couldnt give a fck about christ or God
THIS HAS TO BE ONE OF THE SADEST THINGS I HAVE HEARD IN A LONG TIME! IM VERY SORRY YOU FEEL THIS WAY!
YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IN HIM NOW AND MAY NOT KNOW HIM BUT YOU WILL SOME DAY AND I HOPE ITS BEFORE YOU DIE!!!
YOU WILL BOW BEFORE HIM SOMEDAY LIKE IT OR NOT!
Romans 14:11
For it is written:
“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
You sound like my workout partner Mofo... I told him I don't believe in God and I swear e/d he tries to convert me lol!!
IM JUST STATING FACTS MY BROTHER THATS ALL. I WILL NEVER PUSH ANYTHING ON YOU!
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
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