PCT after Cyp/D-bol Cycle

[malitz]

Hi all. I'm just coming off my first cycle:

Week 1-4: D-bol 30mg ED
Weeks 1-10: Test Cyp. 400mg/wk

As far as I know, PCT should be pretty standard for a cycle like this one:

Nolvadex: 20mg ED
Clomid: Day 1 - 300mg, Day 2-14 - 100mg, Day 15-30 - 50mg

Is this appropriate? I've seen posts before recommending a dosage of less than 300mg on Day 1 for lighter cycles. Is that the case in this scenario?

[HeHateMe]

PCT looks fine. I dunno if you need both clomid and nolvadex though. I think clomid alone should be enough to do the job.

[FUZO]

IVE USED BOTH CLOMID AND NOLVA,WOULNDT HURT

[HungarianBeast]

Both wouldn't hurt. I like using the nolva in between your last injection and first dose of clomid.

[mick-G]

Bump above^ You'll be fie bro.

[blink]

Both will be fine, however, if you are prone to sides from Clomid, you could easily go with just Nolva, and maybe a few other goodies:

- got anymore dbols? try 10mg each AM for weeks 1-6 pc.
- DHEA
- creatine (keep the water weight around)
- femara 1.25mg ED

[FUZO]

BLINK WHY DO 10MG IN AM DURING PCT WHEN YOUR TRYING TO GET IT BACK. THERES BEEN ALOT OF DEBATE ABOUT THIS.

[blink]

...digging up the info. I've never done PCT w/o it, since having it explained to me.

[blink]

[ author unknown ]

10mg taken at once will increase your average testosterone level by 5 times and decrease your endogeneous cosrtisone
by 50-70%.

The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don't know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.

OK. Now, lets delve into the metabolic chemistry behind
dianabol's choice as a bridging agent.

When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.

When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.

Low insulin levels=increased protein used as fuel.
(Also fat, but protein is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)

OK, here is where dball's short half-life works for us
(Its 3.2-4.5 hrs btw)

Lets take Subject X.

He's in bridging mode.
He has just woken up.
The body is about to release tesosterone, thus
creating a spike.
His insulin levels are low.
His LH and test levels are very low.



He pops 10mgs of dianabol.

Here is where things get interesting.

The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.

The body will be partially fooled.
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.

In other words, he is "piggy-backing" an extra dose of testosterone on top of the endogeneously reduced one,
thus creating an "inflated" test spike.

Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dballs anti-catabolic effect will help curb protein-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.

HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)

5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.

Anything more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.

Oh yeah...100mgs? ROTLMFAO!! Fat chance.

The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.

So, here's the scenario summed up:

Beginning: LOW LH and test.

Adding the 10mgs dball.

LH is allowed to SLOWLY RECOVER over time as
testosterone levels are kept at a level which
will not cause muscle-loss. Also, dball's anti-catabolic effects
will reduce protein degradation.(Via cortisone
reduction)

This is what i call a double positive. You have managed to
INCREASE anabolism(Test levels) and DECREASE
catabolism(cortisone), during a bridge to boot!!

The bridge should last 8 weeks, NO LESS.
I also have to say, that it WILL NOT restore
complete LH function. It'll get you 80-90%
of the way there but the only way you're going
to get your full LH function back is if you go OFF
completely.
Anavar WILL NOT restore LH completely either btw.
(In case anybody is wondering.)
The difference is that with anavar you can take it
throughout the day and with dball it HAS TO BE
once in the AM.

[FUZO]

SO BRIDGE 10MG OF DBOL IN THE AM FOR 8WEEKS AND THE FIRST 3 WEEKS YOU STILL DO THE 300-100-50 CLOMID ALONG WITH NOLVA IF YOU WANTED TO. INTERESTING. NICE ARTICLE BUT IS IT MEDICALY PROVEN THATS WHAT WE ALL WANT TO KNOW.

[blink]

I wish that I could answer that, bro. I can't because I haven't seen the studies which support this. Supposedly, they're out there.

What I can tell you is this has been supported AND refuted by knowlegable bros.

I've done this twice, and will be doing it a third when I wrap up my current cycle. It worked wonders for me, in terms of keeping what i had and getting me back online. In the end, my free test was right where it should be - dead center (confirmed by blood tests). I lost nothing, in terms of size or strength, either!

The bottom line: there are lots of variables when cycling - nobody can tell you how a certain cycle is going to affect you, how much you will keep, lose, etc. This is not for beginners, as I think like anything else in this arena, you gotta know your body!

[pigmeat]

I dont like bridges. The am d-bol thing is too contraversial.

[FUZO]

WELL ITS GOT MY ATTENTION,HEY AT MY AGE 36 I NEED THE HELP AFTER A CYCLE. BUT ITS BEEN 7 WEEKS OFF AND THE WOOD IN MY TRR IS COMING BACK.SLOWLY BUT SURELY

[blink]

I hear ya, FUZO - I'm older than you, and am very concerned with PCT!

pigmeat, you're right, it's very controversial.

That's why, it's imperative that you/we all start slowly, proceed slowly, in order to understand how different products affect us, individually. For example, if you know that dbol get's your BP up, and makes your kidneys hurt, no matter how much you do to protect them, fuck, it's just not worth it, in my book. Same thing with Tren. No matter how amazing the benefits, if I start getting tren cough, rage or any of the other sides from it, I'm done with it. Period. I'm in this game for the long term.

[malitz]

Thanks for all the insight. I've decided that I will try standard PCT without D-bol for the time being. That may change in the future, depending on the results I see in the next month.