tren...hard on kidneys???!!!!

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by spidey
The only way to tell if that was indeed your kidneys aching is to have a blood test. It could have just been lower back pumps, which are often confused with kidney pain.

How would drinking a beer cause a lower back pump? That makes no sense at all. Tren and winny are the only two AS that give me any sort of problem with kidneys. Dbol gives me a back pump, but that is a different feeling than what I experience from tren/wiiny. I have never taken them together, and never would for that reason. As was stated before, I don't need a scientific study to tell me that these compounds stress the kidneys. And yes, I CAN feel it. My last cycle I was on Test/tren and I went in for blood work and my enzyme levels were VERY elevated. My potien intake rarely goes over 300g and I don't take creatine.

[spidey]

You could be just unlucky I guess. Everything affects everybody differently. LOL, my mother can't drink a cup of coffee because it is harsh on her kidneys. That has been confirmed by her doctor. I don't take that to mean that coffee will shred everyone's kidneys. My mother just can't tolerate coffee. I've never seen it affect anyone else that way.

-Spidey

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by spidey
You could be just unlucky I guess. Everything affects everybody differently. LOL, my mother can't drink a cup of coffee because it is harsh on her kidneys. That has been confirmed by her doctor. I don't take that to mean that coffee will shred everyone's kidneys. My mother just can't tolerate coffee. I've never seen it affect anyone else that way.

-Spidey

that could very well be the case. even so, claiming that tren does not stress the kidneys without any firm evidence is inappropriate. and bigd - you claim that my statements are nothing more than hearsay without any evidence - well where is your evidence that proves tren does not harm or stress the kidneys? i'm not sure what you meant by saying that my mind is "easily succeptible", unless the word you were looking for was 'impressionable'. in which case you're calling me gullible. i speak from my own experience, not that of others. how does this make me gullible?

[Drenten]

Originally posted by prolangtum
Was it a tren only cycle? Prolly not.

No it wasn’t a tren only cycle, but tren is the variable that causes stress on my kidneys. I know this because I have run propionate only cycles with no excess kidney stress, but running propionate with tren does cause kidney stress.

Same deal with the Deca/d-bol stack, alone kidneys are fine, add tren to the mix, and the blood tests show kidney stress. The stress was not related to blood pressure either; I know that is a variable that is often overlooked.

I’m not saying that my kidneys were on the verge of exploding in flames, but the tren does have a significant negative effect that is evident on my blood tests. As long as I don’t get too crazy with the dosage and duration of a tren in a cycle, I can still use it.

What I do know for sure is that tren is capable of negatively effecting normal kidney functions. That does not necessarily mean that it will, but it isn’t at all unlikely.

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by motogear
I have been taking fina for the last 6 weeks and every friday and saturday night i go out and I'll have 1-3 drinks over the entire night and never had a problem. I have been taking 100mg eod.

good for you. but again - this does not prove that tren is or is not hard on your kidneys.

[BigD]

Read an anatomy book, no pain receptors in the liver... OR kidneys. You felt pain from severe inflammation in the surrounding dura, NOT the kidney itself. Your liver can be visibly puffed out 6 inches from your thoracic cavity without your feeling any pain. And goliath, no I meant succeptible, as in, you heard tren was kidney toxic so when you started taking it, you "thought" you felt kidney pain, when in fact, that is medically not possible. And the proof I have is also only personal, in that myself and dozens of others have taken fina with no kidney impairment, and yet I've never seen a single study showing it CAN cause any kind of damage to the kidneys. Take it how you will, I'm not saying you're wrong, just stating my view, and that is that fina is no more kidney-toxic than any other gear we take.

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by BigD
Read an anatomy book, no pain receptors in the liver... OR kidneys. You felt pain from severe inflammation in the surrounding dura, NOT the kidney itself.

taken from the encyclopedia of health:

kidney - pain

Do kidney disorders cause pain?

Stretching of the pain-sensitive capsule of the kidney is the probable cause and may occur in any condition producing swelling of the kidney tissue, such as due to an inflammation.

There is often marked tenderness over the kidney in the angle formed by he 12th rib and the lumbar spines (spinous processes of the lumbar vertebrae).

Inflammation or distention of the pelvis of the kidney or ureter causes pain in the flank, with radiation into the iliac fossa (lower corner of the abdomen) and often into the upper thigh, testicle or labium (greater labia in the female). The pain is intermittent but does not completely remit between waves of colic.



It is the stretching of the renal capsule that encases the kidney that cuses pain. - So YES, you can feel pain in your kidneys. Same case with the liver as seen in this next statement taken from article writen by Deb Tarra:

Liver pain. Liver pain (right upper quadrant) is due to the distention of the liver capsule which has pain receptors. Rapid increases in liver size from inflammation (viral hepatitis or alcohol induced) or a tumor are the most common causes of liver pain. When the liver becomes cirrhotic, specific liver pain is rarely the cause of right upper quadrant complaints

References

Gitnik, G., LaBrecque D., & Moody, R. (Eds.). 1991. Diseases of the liver and biliary tract. St. Louis: Mosby.

Butler, R.W. (1994) Managing the complications of cirrhosis. American Journal of Nursing, 94, 46-9.

AHCPR Pub. No. 92-0032. Acute Pain Management: Operative or Medical Procedures and Trauma. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1992, 62 -63.

Hasselstrom, Eriksson, S., Persson A., Rane, A., Svensson, J.O., & Sawa, J. (1990). The metabolism and bioavailability of morphine in patients with severe liver cirrhosis. British Journal of Clinical Phamacology, 29, 289-297.

[BigD]

Yes, all of those are caused by stretching of the DURA, the capsule ENCASING said organs A few drinks will not enlarge them, nor will you "feel" that happening with a few weeks of fina. That takes severe infection which fina cannot cause, or direct injury, again which fina cannot cause. I'm not arguing this anymore, we both have our views and I doubt we'll change them. Touche' Goliath, have a nice weekend

P.S. You realized your post proved me correct thought? The organs themselves, like I said, have no pain receptors. Only the dura surrounding them do, which you will not inflame by taking fina.

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by BigD
P.S. You realized your post proved me correct thought? The organs themselves, like I said, have no pain receptors. Only the dura surrounding them do, which you will not inflame by taking fina.

LOL - does that make you feel better? I was not arguing wether or not the organs themselves contain pain receptors. I was simply arguing the fact that you can feel somthing amiss in your kidneys. where the receptor is located is somewhat irrelevant.

...good debate bro! i agree, i think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one until a decent study is published.

[BigD]

Yeah, you're too damn smart to be a juicer goliath, are you a doc in disguise or something? heh heh heh, well, either way, i'm using fina anyway. Within the next 10yrs we'll be able to regrow donor organs from tissue samples anyway, so screw my organs for now

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by BigD
Yeah, you're too damn smart to be a juicer goliath, are you a doc in disguise or something?

LOL - Do I detect a note of sarcasm here? :p

heh heh heh, well, either way, i'm using fina anyway. Within the next 10yrs we'll be able to regrow donor organs from tissue samples anyway, so screw my organs for now

Oh yeah, I'm with you on this one, man. I'm on week 5 of a 24 week cycle containing both tren and winny at different points. Got off dbol and started the tren last week. LOL, fuk it...

[prolangtum]

Originally posted by goliath.jr
week cycle containing both tren and fina at different points [/B]

huh?

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by prolangtum
huh?

lol - oops, i meant tren and winny. damn i need some carbs...

[prolangtum]

Originally posted by goliath.jr
lol - oops, i meant tren and winny. damn i need some carbs...

I feel ya. 150g a day and Im shit.

Goliath, what you think about running winny and stanazol at the same time?

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by prolangtum
Goliath, what you think about running winny and stanazol at the same time?

smart ass. :p