T3, DNP, etc are NOT catabolic!

[CJWolf]

So now you contradicted yourself ... you say taht DNP is not catabolic but it eats muscle?

i think you're trying to oversimplify the facts.

and catabolism does not mean deriving energy from its own cells. it does in a physiological sence, but the basic definition is complex broken down to simple.

For me DNP has not shown significant muscle loss while immensely increasing the rate of liposis ...

[Billy_Bathgate]

For me DNP has not shown significant muscle loss while immensely increasing the rate of liposis ...

me too, while T3 has shown much more muscle loss

[Got Gear?]

Originally posted by CJWolf
So now you contradicted yourself ... you say taht DNP is not catabolic but it eats muscle?

i think you're trying to oversimplify the facts.

and catabolism does not mean deriving energy from its own cells. it does in a physiological sence, but the basic definition is complex broken down to simple.

For me DNP has not shown significant muscle loss while immensely increasing the rate of liposis ...

You may be correct about the over-simplifying.

My description for catabolism in the human body is 100% accurate. While it's not the definition of the word, it's in this sence that we use it.

I'm not contradicting myself because I already stated that in the BBing world, this word is used incorrectly. Any drug that speeds up the metabolism is considered catabolic. Drugs like clen cannot be called anti-catabolic, they should be called catabolic but with "muscle sparing" properties like you've been doing.

I think we're argueing the same point, but your nit-picking me on my terminology. I was trying to simplify it cause obviously people arn't understanding the dictionary explaination.

[CJWolf]

yeah, maybe i am just knit picking it a little too much ...

i'm just used to biochemical terms, and that's usually what i think in ...

[Fonz]

Originally posted by BigD
Different with every person. Though I believe T3 can raise your BMR by around 30% at max, clen by 10%, DNP by 50%. And that's why I'm only taking T3 with profina/eq/winny... I want to loose as much fat as possible, but without a starvation diet and tons of cardio. So, I have plenty of androgens to hold as much muscle as possible and hope that the T3 and low cals don't take too much muscle with 'em

I think not.(Where are you getting thses numbers anyways?)

Ephedrine: 3%
Green Tea: 3%
Clen: 5%
SU(Sodium Usniate): 10%
T3: 10%
DNP(600mg/day Powder): 50%

Fonz

[Fonz]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
You may be correct about the over-simplifying.

My description for catabolism in the human body is 100% accurate. While it's not the definition of the word, it's in this sence that we use it.

I'm not contradicting myself because I already stated that in the BBing world, this word is used incorrectly. Any drug that speeds up the metabolism is considered catabolic. Drugs like clen cannot be called anti-catabolic, they should be called catabolic but with "muscle sparing" properties like you've been doing.

I think we're argueing the same point, but your nit-picking me on my terminology. I was trying to simplify it cause obviously people arn't understanding the dictionary explaination.

Sorry. But your T3 explanation is completely wrong.

T3 works through proteloytic pathways.

T3 will both INCREASE protein turnover and protein degradation.
(At the same time as the burning of fats and carbs(glucose))

Now, if you use T3 w/o gear...it is a recipe for DISASTER.

Why?

Simple. Your body can only process so much protein naturally.
T3 increases protein degradation FAR MORE than your bodies ability to manufactire protein from ingested amino cids.

Now, if you add gear its a different story:

You ENHANCE your bodies ability to sunthesize protein from amino acids(You increase protein Synthesis rates), and also greatly reduce protein degradation via cortisone reduction.

In essence, w/gear you take advantage of T3's increase of the POSSIBLE daily protein turnover b/c gear increases your bodies ability to synthesize protein from the amino acids you consume.

And for the last time...DNP is not catabolic.

DNP reduces protein degradation b/c it reduces peripheral T4-T3 conversion leading to a reduction in free T3 levels.

This is what ANTI-catabolic means.

Fonz

[Got Gear?]

Fonz..

I can't find my explanation of T3, so you're going to have to point out what I said that's wrong.

You're going to have to simplify things bro. We've going for simple explanations so that everyone understands.

I have no idea what "Protien Degradation" is.

LOW DOSE T3 with steroids is good because it helps your body process extra protein for use in building muscle. But what are you saying about it while not taking steroids? That it targets muscle protien over fat or something?

And for the last time...DNP is not catabolic.

DNP reduces protein degradation b/c it reduces peripheral T4-T3 conversion leading to a reduction in free T3 levels.

This is what ANTI-catabolic means

Please read the definition of Catabolic that CJwolfe posted and show me what T4-T3 conversion has to do with it. I'm lost with this.. To me catabolic means "the breakdown of complex molecules to simple molecules with the release of energy as a by product" Does DNP not promote fat loss? Is fat loss not the exact process of breaking down complex fat molecules into simpler molecules which in turn provides energy for your body?

[prolangtum]

FONZ 1
EVERYONE ELSE INCLUDING ME 0

[Got Gear?]

Originally posted by prolangtum
FONZ 1
EVERYONE ELSE INCLUDING ME 0

Well, let's get him to translate into english first.

Dude sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about. Now he just needs to translate so the rest of us know what he's talking about.

[prolangtum]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
Well, let's get him to translate into english first.

Dude sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about. Now he just needs to translate so the rest of us know what he's talking about.

thats the thing hes not good at

[Fonz]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
Fonz..

I can't find my explanation of T3, so you're going to have to point out what I said that's wrong.

You're going to have to simplify things bro. We've going for simple explanations so that everyone understands.

I have no idea what "Protien Degradation" is.

LOW DOSE T3 with steroids is good because it helps your body process extra protein for use in building muscle. But what are you saying about it while not taking steroids? That it targets muscle protien over fat or something?

Think of the body as two processes.

Anabolic and Catabolic.

Normally, Anabolic - Catabolic = 0 and you're in Homeostasis.

Thyroid Hormones regulate your metabolism of proteins, fats, and carbs.

Protein degradation just means Protein catabolism btw.

1. Steroids(AAS) increase your bodies ability to process amino acids into protein(contractile tissue i.e. muscle)
This is referred to having an anabolic effect through increased protein synthesis.

2. Thyroid hormones increase protein turnover rates and also protein degradation rates(Protein catabolism)
This just means that thyroid hormones increase overral POSSIBLE protein turnover...at the expense of increased protein degradation.

Problem with this, is that without the use of AAS, you cannot take advantage of that POSSIBLE increase in protein turnover rates from the thyroid hormones.
With AAS, since you drastically increase protein synthesis, you can take advantge of the increased protein turnover rates from the thyroid hormones. You also eliminate T3's increase in protein catabolism b/c AAS curb cortisone.

In simpler terms, the use of T3 during an AAS cycle can speed up muscle growth.

T3:

1. Increases possible protein turnover
2. Increases Protein catabolism
3. Increase the burning of fats also

AAS

1. Increase Protein Synthesis
2. Decrease Protein catabolism

Add T3 + AAS

1. Accelerated Protein synthesis over and above what AAS can do
2. AAS eliminate T3's catabolic effects
3. You reap the benefits of T3's increased burning of fats

Now, if you were to use T3 w/o AAS

- T3's catabolic effects > Your bodies natural ability to Sythesize protein from amino acids

End result = You lose a great deal of muscle.

Then, in as far as the T4-T3 conversion is concerned.

80% of your bodies free T3 is produced from the conversion of T3 from T4 via the deiodinase enzyme.

Now, as I have specified above, T3 is in essence a catabolic hormone. If you were to reduce free T3 levels in the blood stream...you would in essence be reducing catabolism.

Since DNP reduces peripheral T4-T3 conversion......you are reducing free T3 levels in the bloodstream. This makes DNP an anti-catabolic substance.

DNP is not your garden variety fat loss agent..it is very unique as it is non-hormonal and non-adrenergic(It is not a stimulant)

Fonz

[CJWolf]

I think he is saying that DNP is not catabolic by the mechanism that it works ...

but it does promote a state of catabolism for the whole body since it has to get nutrients any way it can ...

[Got Gear?]

OK.. I think I'm starting to understand.

But here's what I don't get:
To me it sounds like your saying that steroids increase your bodies ability to absorbe protein. I think that's false. I think steroids increase your bodies USE of protien by using it to build muscle, but I don't think it actually increases your bodies ability to process or "take in" more protein.

I agree that your body uses more protein while on, I just don't think it has the ability to increase the rate at which your body can absorbe/process protein.

Kinda like how in a car, adding nitrous will increase horsepower but it doesn't make your gasoline any more explosive like swaping to jet fuel would.

[Billy_Bathgate]

Thats why nitrous is mixed with extra gas!

Just like extra food with steroids

[Fonz]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
OK.. I think I'm starting to understand.

But here's what I don't get:
To me it sounds like your saying that steroids increase your bodies ability to absorbe protein. I think that's false. I think steroids increase your bodies USE of protien by using it to build muscle, but I don't think it actually increases your bodies ability to process or "take in" more protein.

I agree that your body uses more protein while on, I just don't think it has the ability to increase the rate at which your body can absorbe/process protein.

Kinda like how in a car, adding nitrous will increase horsepower but it doesn't make your gasoline any more explosive like swaping to jet fuel would.

Of course you can increase your bodies ability to process protein.

Basic Thyroid hormone chemistry 101

Key word is ABILITY.

Doesn't mean squat unless you use a substance(AAS) that increases protein synthesis, in order to take advantage of your improved protein turnover rates.

And "absorb"....... Where did I say that?

Steroids simply increase AA utilization...which leads to greater protein synthesis...which leans to greater muscle gain.

I think you're confusing what thyroid hormones can do w/ what steroids can do.

Fonz