Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

[Yohimbe]

I just wanted to post my recent experience with proviron and get some thoughts, discussion, critiques, etc... I'm hoping this can be a reference point for anyone who's never used proviron, especially anyone prone to gyno like myself. This is just my own recent personal experience with proviron, so I'm welcoming any and all opinions.

Here's some backround. I've been running a very simple cruise.

Test E -- 300mg / week
2 Pumps Formeron ED

I always keep some arimidex on hand in case estro starts creeping up. (I have slight gyno, but usually no problem with test at 300mg) Everytime I've ever added primobolan, or masteron to a cycle my gyno improved tremendously, so I really wanted to add some proviron. I've been using it for a few weeks now and for the first few days I LOVED it. I felt great, gyno seemed to improve, I looked great, I felt strong, libido shot up sky high, shed some water, all that great jazz. After a few more days it seems like everything just started going down hill really fast. I started feeling like my estro was creeping up, which I thought was a little odd. Then out of nowhere it was like hitting a wall, like my estro just suddenly shot up sky high. I basically felt like I had come off with no PCT. Lethargic, gyno symptoms went insane -- Itching, burning, swollen, puffy, painful, horrible. I went into panic mode reaching for the arimidex, and it did nothing. It was odd, I wasn't bloated and my body actually looked great, harder, more vascular. Just felt like my estro was through the roof. Libido was all over the place, one minute it was sky high and the next it was at zero.

So here I am, panic mode has come and gone. Feels like things might be starting to balance out. I need to get bloodwork done to see where everything is. Just sort of confused about what happened and I can only come up with a couple explanations.

Being an androgen, proviron can lower levels of SHBG. Having a binding affinity for SHBG that is quite high, it's said proviron can free up bound testosterone from SHBG. If that's true, then it will most certainly free up bound estrogen as well. Maybe by doing so, my system was saturated with estrogen? This is where my knowledge of the endocrine system is stretched, but maybe that is why the traditional AI didn't work, as the estrogen saturation was not caused by the aromatase enzyme?

This might be something that has been discussed at length and I missed it, so I'm welcoming any comments.

[sofargone561]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

hmm this is interesting and a totaly mystery for me. Im going to let some others chime in on this who has more knowledge and science to there answers. what dose where you running the prov at? do you trust the source you got it from? its possible it may not have been prov. I use prov every cycle i can afford it on and i run it at 50mg/ED and i have never had this happen. That being said you did bring up some good pionts. I just dont know enough of the science aspecty of it to give you a better answer or help on this. I am intersted to hear what others have to say though.

[OldSchoolLifter]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

Rather than freeing up bound testosterone or estrogen from SHBG, it lower the ammount of SHBG in the system, this increases your overall Free Test tremendously, and allows more test to be used by your androgen receptors, rather than be wasted by binding to SHBG. This influx in free test, and lower % of testosterone binding to SHBG should intern reduce the ammount of testosterone that will aromatize.

In some people however, having a higher free test level (not serum) will actually increase the ammount of estrogen build up. You have to be very sensitive for this to take affect. Most can counter this possibility by using a suicidal inhibitor rather than arimidex. As the body adjusts to the lower levels of SHBG, and the higher levels of Free Testosterone, you will start to feel a "up and down" killing the aromatase enzyme rather than blocking it will give your body a kind of restart or do over, allowing levels to stabilize without excess amounts of estrogen. Arimidex simply Blocks the enzyme from converting, if it is not tapered down or off, Rebound will be in your future.

For most however the decrease in SHBG renders very little testosterone that will convert to estrogen, meaning for most, a dry, hard, vascular look, while using very minimal amounts of an AI. Because it is a DHT based drug, muscle conditioning, and muscle maturity will take effect, leader to a more defined, and balanced look.

Personally I run 25mg-50mg Proviron all year round, Sometimes I may go to 75 when on over a gram a week, and with other compounds in the mix.

[sofargone561]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

Just the man i was waiting for^

[Yohimbe]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

Thanks a million for your advice brother. I have exemestane and will switch to that to see if it helps. This is the first time in 15 yeas I've come across anything like this where adding one compound that's supposed to be a benefit has caused so much havoc on my system so bad, so fast. I'm just glad I decided to try proviron at the end of summer instead of the beginning because I wouldn't have been able to go anywhere shirtless. If it keeps up at this rate I won't even be able to wear a tank top in about a week or so.

[OldSchoolLifter]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

Thanks a million for your advice brother. I have exemestane and will switch to that to see if it helps. This is the first time in 15 yeas I've come across anything like this where adding one compound that's supposed to be a benefit has caused so much havoc on my system so bad, so fast. I'm just glad I decided to try proviron at the end of summer instead of the beginning because I wouldn't have been able to go anywhere shirtless. If it keeps up at this rate I won't even be able to wear a tank top in about a week or so.

You got it brother, What is happening to you is rare, and I cant be 100% certain it's from the proviron. But that is the newest addition, unless something else has changed. Start with 20-25mg Aromasin the first couple days, then go to 12.5 you should need ALOT of it, but we will see.

[Yohimbe]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

Yeah, the proviron is the only change/addition I've made in a while, so that has to be the culprit. I started the aromasin at 25mg a day, then will drop it to 12.5 after a couple days. Appreciate all your help brotha.

[Christsean]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

Rather than freeing up bound testosterone or estrogen from SHBG, it lower the ammount of SHBG in the system, this increases your overall Free Test tremendously, and allows more test to be used by your androgen receptors, rather than be wasted by binding to SHBG. This influx in free test, and lower % of testosterone binding to SHBG should intern reduce the ammount of testosterone that will aromatize.

In some people however, having a higher free test level (not serum) will actually increase the ammount of estrogen build up. You have to be very sensitive for this to take affect. Most can counter this possibility by using a suicidal inhibitor rather than arimidex. As the body adjusts to the lower levels of SHBG, and the higher levels of Free Testosterone, you will start to feel a "up and down" killing the aromatase enzyme rather than blocking it will give your body a kind of restart or do over, allowing levels to stabilize without excess amounts of estrogen. Arimidex simply Blocks the enzyme from converting, if it is not tapered down or off, Rebound will be in your future.

For most however the decrease in SHBG renders very little testosterone that will convert to estrogen, meaning for most, a dry, hard, vascular look, while using very minimal amounts of an AI. Because it is a DHT based drug, muscle conditioning, and muscle maturity will take effect, leader to a more defined, and balanced look.

Personally I run 25mg-50mg Proviron all year round, Sometimes I may go to 75 when on over a gram a week, and with other compounds in the mix.

^^this!! Proviron is an amazing compound that doesn't get enough respect. It complements whatever your taking especially test. It aids in getting rid of the tren blues and it makes you hard as rock. I love it and anyone that had used it will almost always agree.

[Christsean]

Re: Proviron Discussion... Great addition or Nightmare

This was posted by my much respected bro Vision!


Please allow me to illustrate one of Provironsmost pronounced effects ever, that somehow has failed to be discussed upon the masses.Most of you that have ever took the breakfast of champions "Methandrostenolone", That's right, I'm talking about Dbol. What's the most apparent and conspicuous effects that takes place while taking Dbol? If you were about to say the "sense of well-being" than your correct. One of the most profound and desirable effects that we can have during a cycle..Now how about after a cycle? Or for longer durations? But we all know that many of us practice moderation with harsh orals,or I would hope, lol.*Well, one of the greatest characteristics about Proviron that has been shrouded and seldomly discussed is it's "Antidepressant" properties. With this being said, when it was first developed it was widely utilized in treatments for Bi-polar,OCD and Anxiety. As we know that depression is basically a chemical imbalance that comes about through the "Signaling" issues between receptors. Proviron improves the quality of the "channles" that the cells use to communicate and interact. Thus, a similar effect with Dbol where it drastically improves the sense of well being in users.*What I'm about to share is a double blind study that clearly shows undoubtedly astonishing results in the patients! An other great reason to consider this compound.Why proviron is underestimated, the world may never know..Thank you, Vision____________________________________________ ______ __________________________________________________ _____http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1985-28801-001The effects of mesterolone, ... [Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984] - PubMed - NCBICitationDatabase: PsycINFO[ Journal Article ]A comparison of the antidepressant effects of a synthetic androgen (mesterolone) and amitriptyline in depressed men.

Vogel, William; Klaiber, Edward L.; Broverman, Donald M.Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, Vol 46(1), Jan 1985, 6-8.Abstract26

depressed male outpatients were randomly assigned to 14 wks of treatment with either mesterolone or amitriptyline in a double-blind parallel treatment design. Ss completed the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression and a symptom checklist each week. Findings reveal that the drugs were equally effective in reducing depressive symptoms. Mesterolone produced significantly fewer adverse side effects than amitriptyline and did not produce hypomania or tachycardia, recognized side effects of amitriptyline. (10 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol.*1984 Jun;6(6):331-7.

The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).Itil TM,*Michael ST,*Shapiro DM,*Itil KZ.AbstractBased on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.PMID: 6431212 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]