Who knows.........

[T-Man007]

where there is a list of how each and every aas effects the body? I'm sick and tired of studies running all aas into one group. For instance, most studies will state that ALL aas will deteriorate tendons but that's not true in the case of EQ, deca or test under 200 mg/wk. This much I have found.

Is there a resource out there that will give detailed info on each and every aas?

I specifically want to know how drol, dbol and tbol effect tendons and I can't find anything on it. The reason I need to know is these are all in my arsenal and when I start rebuilding I don't want anything that will have a negative effect on my Achilles tendon while it's reparing.

Thanks.

[Corrodo]

Re: Who knows.........

Im going to do some looking, but your right there is no good ref I have found as of yet, so if you or I or anyone finds anything post her up and maybe make it a sticky....

[T-Man007]

Re: Who knows.........

Im going to do some looking, but your right there is no good ref I have found as of yet, so if you or I or anyone finds anything post her up and maybe make it a sticky....

Good idea bro! I found one post on winny but it says what we all know, it makes your tendons larger and more brittle which is a bad combo for explosiveness.

[T-Man007]

Re: Who knows.........

start taking your vitamin C.......crucial for collagen synthesis......the fact of the matter is, some steroids are bad on connective tissue, and some are good. but even the good ones arent really terrific as muscles will always grow faster because they are vascular and your tendons arent. you have to be worrying more about your training routine than what steroids you're taking.....

This is something I was already planning. I was going to go back to periodization but use more endurance reps and the high end of hypertrophy reps and stay away from low reps for a while.

The PT already told me that the days of heavy squats, leg press, deads and calves are gone.

But, even with high reps, a cycle high in test and winny is going to destroy tendons. It's just how they work. That much I know for sure. So, what I need to know is, will drol, dbol or tbol have similar negative effects. This is going to be important regardless of how I train.

Some of the biggest tendon problems with fighters come from those who use winny, according to an article I read the other day.

This is what sucks about aat being illegal, what benefit is their in running these kinds of studies. I wonder if there are any Eastern Block studies on it? Those guys has used this stuff for years and they probably know more about it than most of us because it's legal there and they are able to do more with it.

Thanks for the advice though, I do realize my training program is going to change.

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

I'll do some looking to T-man, I'm interested in those studies as well. It would be nice if we could get a list going for all the mainstream AAS.

Here's what I found so far. Not sure if this is what your looking for though.

There are certain steroids that do make tendons stronger but there are also steroids that make tendons bigger but not as flexable/brittle, Testosterone unfortunatley is one of the culprits in this, whilst injecting testosteron it reduces you collagen production by over 50%, so in effect you have lotts of strong new muscle but the tendons of an old age pensioner, the best drugs to help with building strong tendons are EQ,deca,Primo,Anavar, you can impliment these in to a cycle to build stronger tendons, another culprit for building bigger tendons that have the ability to snap is winstrol (stanazolol), it dramicaly increases collagen synthisis and builds bigger tendons but the body compensates for this making tendons brittle/weaker, winstrol decreases cross linking integraty and forming a weaker tendon, so this is probably a good reason to swap and change compounds around in a cycle to suit your needs.

There are steroids you can use to grow the most muscle and strengthen tendons at the same time and these cycles will include either of the drugs below as the base steroid, and ad test as to supplement your own test:

EQ
deca
Primo
Anavar

Use test at the same time but only in small amounts, because the steroids above have the ability to shut your own test production down so you need to supplement testosterone, you can go as far as 200mg w/k before collogen synthisis is inhibited.

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

Here is another link to a study showing the realtonship btwn. progesterone and its anti-inflamitory properties.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...3/5406/1277/F1

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

Interesting study about the realtonship btwn. certain androgens and their individual effects..

It's really not quite correct to say androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system. It is a bit more complicated than that, not surprisingly.

Here is Immunology 101 in a nutshell. The immune system has two "arms of attack": the cell mediated arm and the humoral arm. The cell mediated arm, or cellular immunity, responds to general assaults on the body by sending out immune cells to do things like attack invading organisms, or degrade necrotic tissue, in a non specific manner. By non specific it is meant that the immune cells do not recognize the invader as a specific target with which they are familiar. Inflammation is an example of a cell mediated response. When you get a sliver or strain a muscle the body sends immune cells there to wall off the site, increase blood flow, remove damaged tissue, etc.

Humoral immunity involves B lymphocytes that secrete antibodies that bind to the target and allow immune cells to recognize the target immediately as an invader and launch an attack. When you are vaccinated for something, like smallpox, you are injected with a small inactive piece of the virus. This primes your body to make large numbers of B cell clones that, if ever challenged with smallpox for real, pump out antibodies that mark the virus for destruction by other cells. The big advantage of this system is that it is fast and efficient. The disadvantage is that it is very specific. The cellular response is not as efficient but it works against any invader, not just one for which there already exist primed clonal B cells.

There is an emerging model of how the sex steroids regulate the two arms of the immune system. It is thought that testosterone stimulates the humoral arm and suppresses the cellular arm. This paradigm arose from the study of autoimmune diseases which overwhelmingly plague women more than men. The majority of autoimmune diseases involve a cellular immune system gone wild. Since in men testosterone suppresses cellular immunity, men are much less likely to suffer from these diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis.

So when NFG123 mentioned that androgens are antiinflammatory, this is kind of what it means technically. Some steroids seem to have stronger effects than others. So when people say deca improves joints because it makes you hold water, that is nonsense. It is an antiinflmmatory because it suppresses cell mediated immunity, which controls inflammation. it has nothing to do with water.

Why is deca's reputation as an antiinflammatory better than testosterone's for example? My guess is the minimal aromatization and its progestogenic activity. If you link to the article below and open the graphic, you will see a couple of interesting things.

First, progesterone, like testosterone, stimulates humoral immunity (the TH2 mediated response in the graphic) and suppresses cellular immunity (TH1 response). So progesterone has antiinflammatory action.

Second, estrogen exerts a biphasic effect. At low doses it is proinflammatory, stimulating the TH1 arm of the immune system (cellular immunity) and inflammation.

Deca then works both as an androgen and a progestin to quell inflammation. Testosterone, by virtue of its aromatization to estrogen is an inferior antiinflammatory.

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

T-man, here is a good one if you can take it with a grain of salt since it was performed on rats. It might be closer to what you are looking for than the others.

http://ajsm.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/34/8/1274

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejourn...55/s-2000-3834

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

This is a great website for sports and medicine related articles. It is the home page of the Medicine and Science in Sports and Excercise homepage.


http://www.acsm-msse.org

[Corrodo]

Re: Who knows.........

Good read TestRip!!! Thanks!!

[kite]

Re: Who knows.........

Awesome links test!

[a-bomb83]

Re: Who knows.........

good stuff testies.

[T-Man007]

Re: Who knows.........

Thanks bro, I really appreciate your efforts!

I came across that one with the rats and that's where I keep getting pissed off. They simply leave it at anaboli-androgenic steriods and that's it. They don't say which ones they used or how much they used in the study. They just make it seem as if ALL have the same effect and I already know better than that. I know that EQ, Deca, Anavar, Primo and low dose test (like you stated, under 200 mg/wk) will actually elevate then. Well, I haven't seen anything personally on Anavar or Primo, but those keep coming up. I know the % of increase on the EQ, Deca and low test, do you know about Anavar or Primo's % of increase?

This is where I keep hitting a brick wall. I may be asking for too much, but it would be nice to know the % of effect each aas has on tendons.

Thanks again bro, I found some great reads out of what you posted!

[TestRip7]

Re: Who knows.........

Thanks bro, I really appreciate your efforts!

I came across that one with the rats and that's where I keep getting pissed off. They simply leave it at anaboli-androgenic steriods and that's it. They don't say which ones they used or how much they used in the study. They just make it seem as if ALL have the same effect and I already know better than that. I know that EQ, Deca, Anavar, Primo and low dose test (like you stated, under 200 mg/wk) will actually elevate then. Well, I haven't seen anything personally on Anavar or Primo, but those keep coming up. I know the % of increase on the EQ, Deca and low test, do you know about Anavar or Primo's % of increase?

This is where I keep hitting a brick wall. I may be asking for too much, but it would be nice to know the % of effect each aas has on tendons.

Thanks again bro, I found some great reads out of what you posted!

No problem at all T-man. I know exactly what you are talking about though, whoever does these experiments and studies tends to generalize and not specify about certain types of AAS. I'll keep looking and hopefully will come across some more detailed studies.