Experienced Hcg User Please...

[NeverSatisfied]

if u do 500iu sat and sun, how much nolva would u want to run throughout

[mcbvr6]

It depends upon your sensitivity. I've run it at 10 mgs per day and didn't have any problems. I backed it down to none and still didn't have any estrogen problems. Some people are much more sensitive though. there isn't one answer for everyone.

[Lethal]

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied
if u do 500iu sat and sun, how much nolva would u want to run throughout

I usually run my cycle with Arimidex so no Nolva for me unless I see gyno.

[Slightly Enhanced]

This is a good informative thread that you may have already seen

http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28604

[hongkongguy]

i'm still confused man...i heard few different things
#1--shot at the weekend for entire cycle
#2--shot at the weekend for entire cycle then 500iu per day for 14 week before start clomid.

#3--500iu per day for 14 week before clomid.

[Slightly Enhanced]

Many people have used it in the past just as part of their PCT. But it is now being used throughout the cycle. My guess is that the more frequently you use it the better. But there must be a point of diminishing returns. Meaning at some dosage you would be better off with less.

Also, There must be long-term implications of using HCG. I have heard in the past that HCG increases your risk for certain types of cancer. I have no data to back this up.

Again I am guessing – but if you used it throughout your cycle, I don’t think you would need as much during PCT. Hopefully someone can quantify this for us.

[jsjs24]

Nevermind

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by Slightly Enhanced
Many people have used it in the past just as part of their PCT. But it is now being used throughout the cycle. My guess is that the more frequently you use it the better. But there must be a point of diminishing returns. Meaning at some dosage you would be better off with less.

Also, There must be long-term implications of using HCG. I have heard in the past that HCG increases your risk for certain types of cancer. I have no data to back this up.

Again I am guessing – but if you used it throughout your cycle, I don’t think you would need as much during PCT. Hopefully someone can quantify this for us.

You almost have it right. It's not the more the better....it depends on how much gear, what type of gear, and how long your using the gear for. For example if you do a long test/deca cycle then you will want to include some hcg in there at least every few wks to keep your testicles dropped. On shorter cycles with smaller doses it is not always necessary, but I think 500iu on sat and sun in about the middle 2 wks of the cycle and again at the end isn't a bad idea.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by hongkongguy
i'm still confused man...i heard few different things
#1--shot at the weekend for entire cycle
#2--shot at the weekend for entire cycle then 500iu per day for 14 week before start clomid.

#3--500iu per day for 14 week before clomid.

Ok Bro, here is what you should do:

Pretty long cycle so take 500iu hcg every sat and sun throughout cycle. Then at the end you can use either 500iu ed for 10-14 days or 1000iu ed for 5-7 days. I would just do it at 500iu and then go right into pct if you run long esters til the end. Also, do sub-q shots. I used to do mine intramuscular which still works, but with this many shots of such small amounts it is recommended to do sub-q.

[someday]

I am now at the start of week 4 post cycle and just started Clomid yesterday. As I was on vacation last week, I decided to skip the HCG pre-clomid I was going to do as the logistics were simply too much. Both times I have done a 12 week Dbol/Deca/Test E cycle. I had zero sex drive issues last time and kept most of what I gained. It is still early this time around, but even without the HCG I have had zero sex drive issues and I'm still just as strong and vascular. I'd like to know for myself how much of an impact HCG therapy after a 12 week cycle really has. I should know for sure in another month.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by someday
I am now at the start of week 4 post cycle and just started Clomid yesterday. As I was on vacation last week, I decided to skip the HCG pre-clomid I was going to do as the logistics were simply too much. Both times I have done a 12 week Dbol/Deca/Test E cycle. I had zero sex drive issues last time and kept most of what I gained. It is still early this time around, but even without the HCG I have had zero sex drive issues and I'm still just as strong and vascular. I'd like to know for myself how much of an impact HCG therapy after a 12 week cycle really has. I should know for sure in another month.

HCG is used to prevent and/or bring back testicular form and function. If your boys have gone up in you then you know you need it. You should read this article to get a good understanding of it.

http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28604

[NeverSatisfied]

say u were running hcg for 10days post cycle. I think i would go like this, but someone correct me if i'm wrong. (i'm never used HCG yet but intend to next cycle. ) Just to be simple, i'll use the example of test enanthate. post cycle is traditionally started 2 weeks from the last shot. i think this would be how to run it if just using it post cycle

DAY
0-last shot of test Enth
1-500iu HCG
2-500iu HCG
3-500iu HCG
4-500iu HCG
5-500iu HCG
6-500iu HCG
7-500iu HCG
8-500iu HCG
9-500iu HCG
10-500iu HCG
11-
12-
13-
14-
15-start clomid therapy(5days from last shot)


run nolva at 20mg per day throughout hcg and clomid therapy

if this is not correct or if there are different ways to do it, then please let me know.

[hongkongguy]

thank you ,i think i am gonna take 500iu per for 2 week before start clomid....do your math.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied
say u were running hcg for 10days post cycle. I think i would go like this, but someone correct me if i'm wrong. (i'm never used HCG yet but intend to next cycle. ) Just to be simple, i'll use the example of test enanthate. post cycle is traditionally started 2 weeks from the last shot. i think this would be how to run it if just using it post cycle



run nolva at 20mg per day throughout hcg and clomid therapy

if this is not correct or if there are different ways to do it, then please let me know.

I would run the hcg for 14 days maybe, it depends on how the botys are doing. It can also be done at 1000iu ed for 5-7 days....probably a better way if you ran prop. There are many ways to do hcg but large doses are not recommended. However, I have done it in 2500iu shots before and it seemed to work fine.......but I would do it this way to havwe smaller amounts at a time and even levls of it. I would still do the nolv at 60 day 1, 40 for 3-5 days, and 20mg for the rest (1 month total).

[Slightly Enhanced]

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied
DAY
0-last shot of test Enth
1-500iu HCG
2-500iu HCG
3-500iu HCG
4-500iu HCG
5-500iu HCG
6-500iu HCG
7-500iu HCG
8-500iu HCG
9-500iu HCG
10-500iu HCG
11-
12-
13-
14-
15-start clomid therapy(5days from last shot)

I know that you are only interested in the last sentence, but I posted it all for everyone else. I DO NOT REMEMBER FROM WHERE I TOOK THIS> BUT IT WAS SOMEWHERE FROM THIS BOARD A FEW MONTHS AGO.

Hcg
What is HCG?- hcg stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.

Where does hcg come from?-it is extracted from the urine of pregnant women.

Is hcg a scheduled medication?- no, its similar to clomid and liquidex as far as US laws go. However you would need a prescription to purchase legally in the US, and this is one of those "grey areas"

What is hcg normally used for?-it is used to help females get pregnant, and can be used to stimulate testosterone production in males.

How does hcg work?- hcg mimics LH(leutenizing hormone). The presence of LH causes the Leydig cells in the gonads to produce testosterone. This effect also restores the size of the testes rather quickly if they were suppressed from a cycle.

Can I use hcg only after a cycle?-no you shouldn't. it is better than nothing, but clomid or nolva are far better plans. Since hcg mimics lh, your body wont begin producing its own lh, as it sees no need to because test levels are high. You stop the hcg, your balls stop making test until your body begins producing adequate levels of its own lh, and that may take a while if you don't use clomid or nolvadex to stimulate lh production.

Can hcg be used w/out steroids to boost testosterone production above baseline?- yes. It is not recommended however. Continued use of hcg will desensitize the leydig cells to lh, meaning once you stop using the hcg as an artificial lh, you will crash bad. The natural lh production once restored by using nolvadex or clomid, may not be as effective as it once was. to boost natural test above baseline, anastrozole, nolvadex and clomid are better choices.

What should hcg be used for?-hcg is commonly used by bodybuilders on either very heavy or very long cycles, when the hpta gets severely suppressed. Although hcg can be used in almost any cycle, the benefits are most pronounced on heavy/long ones.

In the authors opinion, if your cycle contains deca or trenbolone, since these 2 drugs are known to be extremely suppressive to the hpta, you should use hcg. Some people recover very well even on high doses of these drugs, but i see too many users complain about feeling depressed and having a low sex drive and losing gains after a cycle with deca or tren. This is because clomid alone did not assist their recovery enough. Hcg will further help and thats why i recomend it.

How long does hcg boost testosterone for?- hcg can boost testosterone for up to 5 days following the last dose, although the drugs halflife is very short, and its no longer active at that point.

Can hcg cause gyno?-Yes. Estrogen is elevated by two ways from hcg use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly hcg can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatose such as liquidex/arimidex/letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the hpta during hcg therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy.

How does hcg come packaged?-you get 2 vials or amps, 1 has the powdered hcg in it, and the other has a diluent in it(solvent).

The diluent is typically bacteriostatic water, or sterile water w/ .09% sodium chloride. Depending on the brand and version, the package commonly comes w/ enough diluent to make concentrations ranging from 250-10,000iu per ml.

If your package is 5000iu, and you add 1ml diluent, you have 5000iu per ml.
If you add 5ml diluent, you final mix is then 1000iu per ml.
If you add 10ml diluent, then 500iu per ml and so on.

This is simple math, and you don't wanna screw it up-know what dose you are taking!

If your package doesn't include enough diluent to make the concentration you want, you have 2 options to make it easy to accurately measure your doses.

1-buy some insulin syringes, U-100 type. On the graduated markings, the 100iu mark is equal to 1ml, the 50iu is .5ml etc. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IF YOU FILL IT TO THE 100IU MARK THAT YOU ARE TAKING 100IU OF HCG! Iu's are not a measurement of volume or weight, they are a measure of effectiveness for a desired response from specific drugs/compounds. Every compound is different. These are insulin syringes, and they are made for insulin-not hcg. Insulin is the same iu concentration per ml everytime(if its u100 type), hcg is not. Imagine if you made your hcg 10,000iu per ml. if you fill the insulin syringe up to 100iu mark, you now have 10,000iu in there! Not good. You must understand this.

So if you had 5000iu per ml, and wanted to take a 500iu shot, you would inject 10iu on the insulin syringe scale.

2-buy some bacteriostatic water off the internet, its easily found. Simply add more to dilute it to the desired conscentration. Making lower concentrations are easier and more accurately dosed. Then it can accurately be measured w/ a regular syringe.
Mix the two together, they dissolve very easily. Keep things sterile folks. You can purchase empty sterile vials from a few online sites cheap. http://www.getpinz.com is a good place to get insulin syringes as well as bacteriostatic water.

Once hcg is mixed it must be kept refridgerated after that point. most hcg sais it will be good for 30 days after mixing, although some say 60 days. Regardless the longer you save it after mixing the less potent it will be. so if possible try to use it sooner than later.

Heres a typical example of a proper post cycle recovery including hcg. Dosage will vary depending on how suppressed your hpta is, and how well you respond to hcg, but this is normally a good starting point, more is not necessarily better. Some will respond better to 750iu ed or even 1000iu ed, actually everyone will respond better to 1000iu ed, but we don't want to desensitize the leydig cells, which would make clomid treatment less effective. Everyone is different, start at 500iu ed, and if after 5-6 days your balls aren't noticeably bigger and hanging lower, consider a slightly higher dose. I know I respond very well and quickly to small doses, but that may not be the case for you.
**********

Find out when you would normally start your clomid therapy.
Inject hcg 500iu everyday, either intramuscular or sub q, for 10-14 days. Place the hcg so that the LAST hcg shot is about 5 days before clomid therapy starts.

Run clomid like you normally would, which is usually 3-4 wks of clomid therapy in a descending dose. Using 300mg clomid the first day is a good idea.

Anti estrogens should definitely be used during hcg therapy. Both an anti aromatose such as liquidex, arimidex, or letrozole, as well as nolvadex ideally should be used, although just nolvadex can suffice, as well as just an anti aromatose. However everyone is different when it comes to sensitivity to estrogen induced gyno. A combo of both types of anti e's is best and ensures your safety from gyno. IF YOU CAN ONLY GET/AFFORD 1 ANTI E, USE NOLVADEX


An example cycle:

Wks 1-10 enanthate 1000mg wk
Wks 1-12 tren 100mg ed
Wks 5-12 winstrol 50mg ed.
Wks 1-16 liquidex 1mg ed
Last shot of enanthate is day 70.
Last shot of winny and tren are day 84.
Hcg is run days 72-82, 500iu ed.
Nolvadex is run 10mg ed days 72-87.
Clomid is run on days 87-108.

Some may prefer to use nolvadex in place of clomid, but that's not the discussion here, although its ok to do so. Some may also prefer to use higher doses and/or longer clomid therapy, which is also ok.

By using the proper combo of post cycle therapy drugs along w/ proper placement and timing, chances of an excellent recovery are maximized. You keep more gains, and you don't crash hard.

Clearance times for various AS for clomid therapy to begin:

Anadrol50/Anapolan50.......8-12 hours
deca Durobolan................3 weeks
Dianabol.........................4-8 hours
Equipoise........................17-21 days
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days
Sustanon.........................3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days
Test Suspension................4-8 hours
Winstrol...........................8-12 hours

If your taking substantial doses ex. 1g+ of test, you may wish to add 1/3 extra time to the above clearance times before starting clomid. This is optional.

Due to new information id like to amend this article, i no longer feel there is a need to wait 5 days between the last hcg shot and beginning of clomid. start clomid the next day..
Due to new information id like to amend this article, i no longer feel there is a need to wait 5 days between the last hcg shot and beginning of clomid. start clomid the next day..