over 50 grams of protine is a waste?????

[YellowJacket]

You're getting your information from text books and nutrition class, none can be cited as intelligent and accurate sources of information. Those classes are designed to teach about athletes and everyday people, I an none of the above. I intentionally breakdown my muscle tissue with German Volume Training squat routines and you're going to tell me I dont need 300 grams of protein to function daily and to repair my damaged muscle tissue? Haha, thats great man... I never thought Id hear that. Id shrink like a prune on 200 grams of protein.

Even if your theory is sound, what would I eat to reach my basal metabolic rate? Id have to drop the protein I guess and eat fats and carbs.... hmm

[MYRICK]

yj what i dont understand is he's tellin you that you dont need 300 a day but turns around and says that he takes 300 a day. what the hell is that shit brah

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by MYRICK
yj what i dont understand is he's tellin you that you dont need 300 a day but turns around and says that he takes 300 a day. what the hell is that shit brah

Self contradictions certainly dont help.... if you truly believed your theory, why dont you practice it?

Go read some Bryan Haycock articles or go ask Chad Nicholls how much protein bodybuilders need. I would tend to agree with that that your novice weekend warrior doesnt need 300+ grams a day, but not all of us are novices. I used to preach the same thing man, I learned in my Advanced Human Nutrition class that 1 gram per kilogram of bodyweight was enough.... well that is enough if your exercise consists of changing channels and the occasional wiping of the ass, but when you train heavy 5 days a week, balls to the wall, and weight 200+, you need around or more than 300 grams a day, thats a safe assumption.

[Billy_Bathgate]

If you multiplied the rate of absorbtion by the rate of digestion by the rate of usage by the rate of efficency...

you would be looking at a good 300-500g of protien a day by a guy that knows what he is actually doing minimum...well if you plan to make any gains


its rare to find a good book on nutrition. too many dumbasses

[AnotherUser]

I told you, I consume most of my calories in protein because my body doesn't handle carbs very well. And the only other option is fat.

I just don't think you can TOTALLY throw out all scientific literature because some big guy with amazing genetics said you need lots of protein. I know that not all things in medical literature are 100% accurate, but they are there because they have been studied and clinically tested. It's not just a guess by some big guy with no education.

Besides, lets analyze the number itself. Every recommends 300g, 400g, 500g. How do people pick these numbers? It looks to me like they are just nice even numbers that someone pulled out of their ass and started recommending.

[scorpion]

If your farting yourself into the record books ....... your body is not absorbing all the protein........... I think your body can handle 30-50 a sitting........ thats a fact.... bb or not we are all the same

[AnotherUser]

Good point scorpion. The increased gas alone should tell you that your body can't handle what you're taking in.

Besides, how much protein do you think a "normal" person needs? lets say, 5'10'', 175 lbs. Do you think he needs more than 150g of protein a day?

Think about your body. The ENTIRE thing is made up of proteins. Just about everything. Do you think that your muscles need DOUBLE or TRIPLE what a normal person's ENTIRE BODY needs? Sorry, don't think so.

[someday]

I'm with the heavy protein users on this one - especially since the cutting diet I recently used was designed for a Top 20 O competitior. I was taking in nearly 600g/day with no problems. Granted, I started my intake at 6:00 am and ended at 1:00 am spread out over 9 meals. Three of those meals where 50g Isopure shakes, the rest were all chicken, lean steak, tuna and egg whites. I find you can take in quite a bit more when you keep the food solid and real, whereas too much whey will definitely send you to the hopper. I currently take in 400g/day at a bodyweight of 260 #'s.

Paul Borenson had a pretty interesting take on this subject in one of his books. He thought the "taking in too much" in one sitting was complete BS. He likened it to to a lion (I realize we are now talking about an animal here, not a human being) which usually gorged once a week (hi protein meal of gazelle perhaps) and then didn't eat again until the next week. Look at the muscular development on those creatures - they are one of the strongest, most muscular creatures on the face of the planet. Now I realize he is taking it to an extreme, but I thought it was a pretty interesting point nonetheless.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by scorpion
If your farting yourself into the record books ....... your body is not absorbing all the protein........... I think your body can handle 30-50 a sitting........ thats a fact.... bb or not we are all the same

Umm....well 30-50 is a pretty broad range....

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by AnotherUser

Think about your body. The ENTIRE thing is made up of proteins. Just about everything. Do you think that your muscles need DOUBLE or TRIPLE what a normal person's ENTIRE BODY needs? Sorry, don't think so.

You're actually proving my point. Your whole body is almost entirly protein, so theres a lot of repair that must be done.... if you honestly thinkg you a 225lb person only needs 200 grams of protein after weight training, you're on the wrong board. You have yet to reference anything but opinion and what you heard in class and out of textbooks. Please forget everything you've learned in class, none of it is applicable to bodybuilding.

[YellowJacket]

Understading Protein Needs & Utilization
By YellowJacket

Understanding the body's needs for protein and just how much you need is a career or life-long guessing came for most. Of the various types of protein avaliable, bodybuilders more often than not consume whey casein and egg protein, either from whole foods or powdered protein supplements. A variety of protein is ideal for the different effects each protein has on the body. Confidence in your protein intake is essential, because let's face it, you can not grow without adequate protein intake. A favorite quote of mine is: "You can always grow from undertraining, but you can never grow from undereating."
So how do you determine your protein needs? What magical number does one use? The golden rule is seemingly 1.25-2 grams per pound of bodyweight. If you have been in the game long enough, you will realize thats a pretty broad number. Then you move into the variables for each level of protein intake. The etiology is 1.25 for your novice 3-4 day a week bodybuilder. 1.5 grams for your 5 day a week, intense training, who may also be doing cardio sessions. Of course, 2 grams per pound of bodyweight would be your 'enhanced' bodybuilder using nitrogen retention 'helpers' to add size and strength. Albeit, none of these numbers are set in stone and you can find your steroid user using 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight and your weekend warrior who just laid down his Flex magazine using 3 grams a day.
So what goes into deciding utilization of proteins? First the quality of the protein must be considered. The easiest way to do this is by method of chemical scoring, or breaking the protein down into its individual amino acids. With the plethora of information out there on various essential and non-essential amino acids, it would be very easy for one to determine if he or she is gathering enough quality amino acids. Another techinque of determining protein uptake and useage is through the imfamous Biological Value (BV). This is determined by recovering nitrogen samples from the stool and urine of an individual to determine just how much of the ingested protein was used ans how much was wasted. Two reasons can cause a loss of protein into stool or urine and thats poor digesttbility or a lackluster amino acid profile. Two other tests can be used, but are not as popular, these are Net Protein Utilization (NPU) and Protein Efficiency Ratio (PER).

Please note this excerpt from Bryan Haycock Msc, CSCS:

Myth #2: You can only assimilate 30 grams of protein at one sitting.

Fact: The body has the ability to digest and assimilate much more than 30 grams of protein from a single meal.

Speaking of high intakes of protein, people have been perpetuating the myth that you can only assimilate ~30 grams of protein at a time, making protein meals any greater than a 6 oz. chicken breast a waste. This is anything but true. For example, the digestibility of meat (i.e. beef, poultry, pork and fish) is about 97% efficient. If you eat 25 grams of beef, you will absorb into the blood stream 97% of the protein in that piece of meat. If, on the other hand, you eat a 10 oz steak containing about 60 grams of protein, you will again digest and absorb 97% of the protein. If you could only assimilate 30 grams of protein at a time, why would researchers be using in excess of 40 grams of protein to stimulate muscle growth?1

Critics of high protein intakes may try to point out that increased protein intake only leads to increased protein oxidation. This is true, nevertheless, some researchers speculate that this increase in protein oxidation following high protein intakes may initiate something they call the "anabolic drive".13 The anabolic drive is characterized by hyperaminoacidemia, an increase in both protein synthesis and breakdown with an overall positive nitrogen balance. In animals, there is a correspondent increase in anabolic hormones such as IGF-1 and GH. Though this response is difficult to identify in humans, an increase in lean tissue accretion does occur with exaggerated protein intakes.14,15

The take home message is that, if you are going to maximize muscle growth you have to minimize muscle loss, and maximize protein synthesis. Research clearly shows this is accomplished with heavy training, adequate calories, and very importantly high protein consumption. This means that meals containing more than 30 grams of protein will be the norm. Not to worry, all that protein will certainly be used effectively by the body.

So who determines how much each individual can assume? That individual. If you are taking in 60+ grams of protein a sitting and getting an upset stomach or gastrointestinal irritation, you have more than likely taken in too much protein at one time. Over the counter supplements such as ginger root aid in absorbtion and utilization of protein intake. Of course, water also helps those irritations and the more water you consumer during high protein diets, the better.

Textbooks and college nutrition teachers do not know any better. These men and women do not cater to the body builder who intentionally breaks down his muscle tissue in a matter of 60 minutes or so, only to repair it by consuming large amounts of protein. These books and professors cater to the everyday individual, and when 'athlete' is mentioned, think of the 150lb outfielder on the baseball team. Bodybuilding has its own specific rules to nutrition and protein intake isnt any different.

[Governor]

Originally posted by scorpion
I think your body can handle 30-50 a sitting........ thats a fact.... bb or not we are all the same

nope sorry, you are wrong in that entire statement.

[FLEMS]

i think it varies per person....i stay at around 40 grams

[BiggerStronger]

It's all opinion at this point...who cares? It seems though that we all agree on one thing: That there is not any set amount that a person can consume and utilize at the highest efficiency.

My opinion: Basically if it works for you, then continue doing it. If it doesn't, then change your routine.

We know OUR bodies best. We should leave it at that. Throwing out suggestions of 300-500g of protein are fine. The user will try it but if it does not work (gaining lots of fat, gastrointestinal problems, etc.) they should adjust to what there body can handle.

[AnotherUser]

Agreed.

YJ,
I agree with your little article. I don't believe anything that was said in there contradicts what I have said. I said 50g in a meal is ok, but it's about the max that I would recommend. And again, it does depend on the type of protein as you pointed out. Even though whey protein has an extremely high BV, I still think it's sort of a waist to consume 50g of it at once just because it is digested so fast. The only time when I'll consume 50g of whey is after a workout when I don't care if some of it gets converted to glucose. And yes, I do acknowledge that everyone is different. SOME people may be able to handle 75g or more in one sitting. However, I don't feel that lifting weights will change the physiology of your DIGESTIVE TRACK so that you can handle more. You're born with your limits.