Most effective.

[Speedracer59]

Which stack have ya'll had the most luck with for burning fat.I have only used the first one but going to do one of the other two in two weeks.Got about 15 more lbs to lose.

1.ECA/NYC/ Lipoderm(mabey)
2.T3/Clen
3.Usnic Acid/ALA/ Milk Thistle

[lord humongous]

I would do #2 but ad either eca or nyc to it. Stay away from the usnic acid too many risks involved.

[HeHateMe]

i like clen and eca...but from your options i'd go with #2

[Speedracer59]

That is wich way I am leaning. I have read good and bad things about the UA. Read many posts and articals that say if the proper precautions are taken it is pretty safe.

[bigdude]

I would go with clen and eca also. I have done clen and t3 and I didn't like the t3. The clen and eca was much better for me.

[lord humongous]

Speed, what I meant by my post is run the T3 throughout, the clen and eca/nyc in 2wk intervals.

2wk clen
2wk eca or nyc
2wk clen
2wk eca or nyc

see what I mean. I would run all three...make sure you are on some test or eating alot of protien or the t3 will eat your size.

[Speedracer59]

Thanks bros. I know how to run them. I think ia m going to add the eca/nyc like you said lord humongus and run that.

[okcgrl]

Usnic Acid

Guys:

There is a whole lot of misinformation concerning usnic acid out there. I am a biochemist and love the stuff.

Check out the following article:

By: James Shoemaker, M.D.
Houston, Texas
Proponents of new herbal products often use the words “revolutionary,” “miracle,” or “breakthrough” to promote use of their new products. In opposition, antagonists often deride new herbal supplements as personal attacks on the proponents or declare the new product as “worthless,” “dangerous,” or “unproven.” Experience and level headedness requires a critical evaluation of the background of the authors as well as the articles and conclusions relied upon to support or oppose a new nutritional supplement. Unfortunately, many “opinions” are taken as gospel truth, even though they are oftentimes unfounded.
Empirical or folklore observations are the bedrock upon which many useful herbal (and indeed many pharmaceutical) products have been developed. While nutritional supplements do not undergo the same intense scrutiny of laboratory, animal, and double blind human trials required by the FDA for approval as drugs (in the U.S. a new drug costs about $500 million and takes about 12 years to be developed), it behooves the potential user of any supplement to read as much as possible about what he or she is using.
Usnic acid, the active ingredient in many lichen species, is the base ingredient in many herbal products, including Kombucha tea, Kvas, Mo-Gu, tschambucco, volga spring, kwassan, olinka, and champignon de longue vie. Usnic acid has recently been introduced as a proprietary herbal weight loss supplement. This ingredient, in it’s non-extracted form, has been used for over 2,000 years by various civilizations for combating infections, treating colds, fighting cancer, and assisting in weight loss.1 A comprehensive and active web page under the title The Kombucha Center can be found with any search engine.2 The Kombucha Mailing List is a collective group of over 600 people who actively e-mail and respond to questions regarding Kombucha and its ingredients.3
Usnic acid belongs to a ubiquitous group of compounds that act as “uncoupling agents.4” Uncouplers are lipophilic moieties that interact at the level of mammalian mitochondria and decrease the efficiency of energy utilization, i.e., more calories are utilized to perform any given biologic function.5 Thus, even if energy (food) intake remains the same, weight loss occurs because extra calories are burned from fat stores.6 Uncaptured energy is chemically released as heat.7 Since the very definition of a calorie is a unit of heat, increased heat production occurs at the expense and depletion of body fat. Indirect calorimetry-respiratory quotient studies substantiate that uncouplers utilize fat as the dominant source of calories (95% from fat, 3% from carbohydrates and 2% from protein).
In folklore and modern medical studies, usnic acid has been noted to be of benefit in the treatment of many diseases that are sensitive to heat.8 When usnic acid is used in large doses, many bacteria,9 fungi,10 parasites,11 viruses,12 and even cancers13 cannot tolerate the effects of their own increased heat production and are stopped in their tracks.
Uncouplers have not been found to be clastogenic.14 All studies clearly demonstrate that uncouplers are Ames test negative15 (i.e., do not cause mutations), are not teratogenic16 (do not cause birth defects), and do not effect the longevity of animals17 (animals fed uncouplers live the same duration as untreated animals, albeit with a lower body weight). Further, uncouplers have an intrinsic level of safety because excess dosages cause increased heat and act as a warning (most drugs and supplements have no overt signs of excess use until it is too late). Other published in vitro studies on esoteric actions (spindle apparatus, etc.) at ridiculously excessive doses of usnic acid18 and speculations of possible side effects have no foundation, i.e., stop taking saccharin because tonnage doses to mice cause problems or stop taking aspirin because of unfounded reports of Reye’s Syndrome, effects on kidneys, the spindle apparatus, etc. Indeed, many commonly used pharmaceuticals have horrific commercial applications, i.e., coumadin a useful blood thinner is a rat poison; nitroglycerin is used as an anti-anginal agent, yet is a commercial explosive; botulinum toxin is injected for cosmetic purposes, yet it is the most toxic substance known in chemical warfare; curare is a blow gun dart poison, yet used daily in anesthesia as a muscle relaxant, etc. Further, unlike many herbal ingredients, bioavailability and half-life studies are published on usnic acid so that optimal herbal dosing has been established.19 In reviewing a total of 258 published abstracts on lichen acids and 61 on usnic acid, usnic acid has not been reported to have any irreversible untoward side effects by any peer reviewed journal.20
Herbal xenophobia and personal attacks are often expressed by those that either have secret agendas or are totally ignorant of a new substance (a solitary posting in 1999 by Brock Strasser in a weekly online “Testosterone” publication). Simply because an herbal ingredient has other uses than weight loss does not make it dangerous or not efficacious.
In fact, if a new substance has other medically acceptable uses based on the same mechanism of action, one should have added confidence that the ingredient will do what it claims. Like all drug and herbal formulations, dosing and proper use are important for optimal results and safety, “misuse” of any supplement can have untoward effects. For Mr. Strasser to cavalierly promote ephedra products and suggest that it is safe because beta-blockers can handle the side effects of tachycardia, etc. is at best disingenuous. How do you handle a stroke from elevated blood pressure caused by ephedra? How do you handle, ventricular fibrillation, a myocardial infarction, or other potential sudden death from excessive adrenergic stimulation?
Many herbal products are touted as “thermogens” or “fat burners21.” This has no practical basis in scientific fact. The adult human body increases heat production (caloric expenditure) in one of two ways: (1) increased muscular activity (exercise) or shivering thermogenesis (involuntary muscular work, i.e., chills when we are cold); or (2) chemical or non-shivering thermogenesis.22 The amount of caloric expenditure through chemical heat production is minimal in human adults. No brown fat is found in human adults and the effects of adrenaline or ephedra like compounds are at best short lived.23 The dominant effect of ephedra-like products is suppression of appetite, which further decreases the metabolism and heat production. The only available herbal ingredient shown to increase chemical thermogenesis on a prolonged basis is usnic acid.
As a physician, I am excited at the weight loss results this new herbal supplement promises for people unable to lose weight by diet and exercise. Waiting for the uncoupling proteins that are being developed by pharmaceutical companies (that may be available only as injections of costly drugs in 10 to 15 years) is impractical.24 Usnic acid is a naturally occurring substance that has the ability to selectively cause fat loss, a feature desired by every athlete, body builder, and rational person who desires to preserve muscle while losing weight. This herbal substance has the direct ability to stimulate metabolism and heat production so that reasonable dieting and exercise can have dramatic effects. Usnic acid will be the weight loss supplement of the new millennium.
Dr. Shoemaker is a licensed physician who worked for several years in a weight reduction clinic utilizing patent-pending thermogenic uncoupler therapy.
References:
1. http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/
2. yahoo.com
3. http://w3.trib.com/—kombu/FAQ/mailist.html
4. Heytler, P.G., Uncouplers of Oxidative Phosphorylation, Pharmacol Ther 1980; 10(3):461-71
5. Skulachev, V.P., Uncoupling: new approaches to an old problem of bioenergetics. Biochem Biophys Acta, 1998: 1363(2): 100-24
6. Diehl, A.M., Hoek, J.B., Mitochondrial Uncoupling: Role of Uncoupling Anion Carriers & Relationship to Thermogenesis & weight Control "the benefits of losing control". J Bioenerg Biomembr, 1999; 31(5) 517-25
7. Himms-Hagen, J., Cellular Thermogenesis. Annu Rev Physiol, 1976; 38(919): 315-51
8. Rodbard, D., et al., Temperature: A Critical Factor Determining Localization and Natural History of Infectious Disease, 1980, Perspectives in Biology & Medicine, Spring. 439-474.
9. Brown, M.R., et al., Inhibition and Destruction of Microorganisms by Heat, 1971, Hugo, W.B.Ed., Inhibition and Destruction of the Microbial Cell., Acad Press, New York, 1-37
10. Silva, M., Fungi and Heat Sensitivity, 1985,Trans.N.Y. Acad.Sci., 2nd series, 21:46-53
11. Junaid, A.J.N., Treatment of Cutaneous Leishmmaniasis with Heat, 1986, Int J Derm., 25:470-72
12. Carter, W. A. et al., Viral Infection & Host Defense (Fever), 1974, Science, 186:1172-1177
13. Urano, M., Tumor Response to Heat, 1988, Hyperthermia & Oncology, Vol. 1, NSP BV, 162-200.
14. Chin, C. W. et al., Mutation Research., 1978, 58:11-17
15. Garner, R.C., and Nutman, C.A., Mutation Research, 1977, 44:9-14
16. Tainter, M.L. , Proc. Soc. Exper. Biol. & Med., 1934, 1161-1162
17. Tainter, M.L., Growth, Life Span and Food Intake of Rats Throughout Life, 1937, Proc. Soc. Exper. Biol. & Med, 51-57
18. Al-Bekairi, A. M. et al., J Ethnopharmacol, 1991, 33(3):217-20
19. Venkataramana, D. et al., Pharmacokinetics of Usnic Acid in RabbitsŠ, 1993, Eur J Metab Pharmacokinet, 18(2):161-163
20. Search of entire Medline & Toxline Databases with Grateful Med, Feb., 2001
21. Examples of trademarked products such as Metabolife, Xenadrine, Stacker 4, etc.
22. Ganong, W., F., Review of Medical Physiology, 1999, pp.241
23. Ganong, W., F., Review of Medical Physiology, 1999, pp.240
24. Millennium Pharmaceuticals, Inc, Wall Street Journal, Press Releases, March 7, 1997

[Josh]

i like #2 but run t3 the whole time and cycle clen and eca 2 weeks on/off