TweetAlso, forgot to ask...I was interested in the var and win as it was reported to have few side effects and you could maintain the gains after stopping. Are these a waste of time. I would be happy with very gradual gains. Remember Im really freakin light and 5-8# will be quite a bit of a gain for me. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by lgtymlftr

You think that the bench and squat are low for a 150# dude? Ma, what is the typical strength to weight ratio you are pushin? Just curious. Also wondering the frequency of the 500mg frequency?

standard meat and potatoes cycle would look like this

Weeks 1 -10 500mg testosterone enanthate per week. one shot Sun, one shot Wed
Weeks 1-4 30-50mg dbol everyday

PCT is just as important, if not more than the cycle its self. proper PCT will determine how much of your cycle gains you keep. standard PCT therapy is 300,100,50

300mg of Clomid first day
100mg of clomid for 5 days
50mg of clomid until you finish your tabs/liquid.

stick around, youll learn alot here.

dont worry about skar, if you hang here long enough, youll learn no one takes anything he says serious

TweetI got confused because someone else started this thread

I agree you seem to be pretty well in line and know a good bit about diet and training...

lots of options, but might as well keep it as simple as possible the first time.

Test E or cyp 400-500 mg week

lots of options if you wanted to stack, but test alone is pretty good.

research nolva and how much you will need to be safe through out and for PCT



could start with Dbol

Originally Posted by jamescb77

bro your 30 you seem to have your diet and training in order from what you talk about. if you tihnk that you are ready go ahead and try a cycle of 500mg test for 12 weeks and try 30 mg dbol for the first for weeks. you should see good gains in size and strength. if you have anymore questions feel free to ask or you can even pm me if you need to.

Tweetoh shit i thought uw ere 180..... Uh 150... U're diet and training aint on

Tweetif your as hard of a gainer as you say, im assuming winny or var alone wouldnt be too much use to you.... stacked at the end of a test cycle could be good though.

how much weight are you looking to gain?

Originally Posted by lgtymlftr

Also, forgot to ask...I was interested in the var and win as it was reported to have few side effects and you could maintain the gains after stopping. Are these a waste of time. I would be happy with very gradual gains. Remember Im really freakin light and 5-8# will be quite a bit of a gain for me. What do you think?

Tweetall you need is some test. don't use sust or any other short acting ester as its your first cycle and im sure you don't wanna poke at the very least eod. Use test enan or cyp at 300mg a week for 10 weeks will get you growing real quick. if you want you can throw in var the last 6 weeks for strength. some will say you need more test then that; BS; not at your size. 300/week will prolly allow you to add a solid 10-15lbs if your diet is as good as you say it is. hope this helps.

TweetThanks for the info, all. Kz1, I appreciate your opinion with the dose. I really don't want to stack if I don't have to and like I originally posted I have been training for some time. I can wait for good information and it's no emergency. Hell, I haven't been convinced yet I'm gonna go this route or not, but I keep tellin myself this is the year I'm gonna grow and it just is not happening. I'm wondering what is up with skar, though. Skar, if I haven't grown in 5 years and I'm not right for a cycle, then who is? It seems a bit counter-intuitive that dudes that have no problem with training and growth need a cycle and dudes like me shouldnt need it. WTF? Explain if you will, how else am I gonna get the gains I need when I'm sure Ive hit my natural potential. No body's gonna grow forever and by 30 I should start thinking how I want to look when I peak. Right? Another solid 10# on me would be allright I think. I just want to make sure I keep it, and I dont want to screw my system up over it either. That's why I need good solid advice. Ill hang until I get it. This is a huge freakin decision to make, as some of all of you may agree. By the way, I appreciate everyones advice thus far.

TweetOk bro if you eat like you say you do you should AT LEAST be able to put on some FAT. If you haven't you simply arent eating enough and that is the reason you're not growing . 5% is ripped as hell but MANY will have trouble trying to get bigger and stronger at that BF... Your squat is very decent, what about your deads?

How do you train? hard gainers have to train a very special way

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Originally Posted by lgtymlftr

Ok, if im not 5% then roughly 8 years of university hydrostatic weighing all with consistent figures are lying. I have ripped out obliques all year and it'll takes me 6 weeks to have glute striations if desired. I do cardio only for heart health, not to get lean. My diet is clean, high in protein with roughly 5 meals a day. I can tell you my calories are what they need to be for growth. Training schedule is one body part per week with nauseating intensity to stimulate growth. Reps are kept low. I've done everything else to get things growing and it is not happening. If a cycle is not right for me, then it isn't. But I'm going to get a few educated opinions other than "try food" or "there's no way your 5%".

sounds like u may be ready then

TweetSkar, you're being a little presumputious about the guy. I can empathize with his genetic capabilities and metabolism. I am also an extremely lean guy naturally and it is tough to say the least for putting on any kind of substantial mass. We give out this advice all the time saying it is diet and how people are not ready for AAS, and many times it is true, but we have to look at our own experiences too. I'd like to bet that more than half of the people on this board started AAS prematurely and could've gained naturally through proper dieting.

TweetIf he cant even fatten himself up a little bit by eating he's clearly not eating enough. I'm just stating the truth.. This dude is going to get on gain a few lbs initially but thats it, maybe even come all the way back down when off. STeroids aren't an answer for not being able to diet or train.. Refer to IA's post about not growing, this guy would fall under "doesnt eat enough."

I know there are super hard gainers out there. I'm not that genetically gifted myself. I lift twice a week!

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Originally Posted by Skarhead

I'm not that genetically gifted myself. I lift twice a week!

it shows!

Tweetlol, f off Fit...

But let's be honest, he's not going to take my advice b/c its just what he wants to hear. He wants to hear that he has his training and diet down to the Tand he's ready for gear.. but w/e... maybe he'll come around