Israel, Some Monument, Conservative Christians, and Re-Birth of Christ?

[Stout1]

TweetI was watching some show, can't remember which one exactly but they said the reason that the main line hard core Conservative Christians support Israel is b/c that once Israel gets this piece of land back held by Palestine then that will lay the steps for the re-birth of Christ.

I can't remember exactly but this is what I remember. Do any of you all know what I am talking about or what monument it is that Palestine has that Israel wants.

After some Googling I think it's Temple Mount? Don't know I'm tired. Off to bed.

[Scalleywag]

TweetIsreal has never been at peace in all of its existence. It will also never be defeated which is evident from the war in 1967 I think it was. It is the actual peace of Isreal that paves the way for the Tribulation. At the end of the seven years of the Tribulation that is when Christ will return to set up His kingdom. The good part about that is that Gad calls all of his people (Christians) up to be with him before all of this happens.

[PL456]

TweetGod promised the Isralites (the promised land) from the sea to the tigris river. this is the promised land and by God's gift, rightfully Israels. The islamists took over much of the promised land years ago and built the temple mount on the Jewish Holy site..the former site of Solomon's temple, I believe.


Israelites are God's chosen people.

The Israelis have always been and will always be persecuted by the world as they are God's chosen people. The world is the enemy of God. (just check CNN and the BBC for the world's opinion of Israel).

We do not, and are not to know when Jesus returns to take His bride...but when there is PEACE in the middle east, brokered my the anti-Christ, 7 years will pass, then the anti-Christ will break his treaty..then the end times are supposed to begin.

Read your Bible.

[superdog]

TweetI believe in the Bible but I also believe in interpreting the bible. Sometimes words are used as anologies and sometimes used under strict exact dictonary defination. Also, don`t forget that the Bible that we read was rewritten from scribe to scribe all through the Dark and Middle ages so the word of God has been altered by the hand of man.

Be that as it may.. and you may disagree strongly with me and rightfully so but I believe that when we read the Bible it can be a little dangerous to take it too literally. Yes the story is true but are the seven years actually calandar years or did a scribe substutite "ages" for "years" which could mean seven melinia.

To me it`s kind of like a black and white picture, if you look too close at the individual grains you can`t understand the picture, you have to take a step back and take it all in.

[MeatHead]

Tweet

I was watching some show, can't remember which one exactly but they said the reason that the main line hard core Conservative Christians support Israel is b/c that once Israel gets this piece of land back held by Palestine then that will lay the steps for the re-birth of Christ.

I can't remember exactly but this is what I remember. Do any of you all know what I am talking about or what monument it is that Palestine has that Israel wants.

After some Googling I think it's Temple Mount? Don't know I'm tired. Off to bed.

you watching too much TV! It is not just the "hard core conservatives" either. democrats and republicans have had relationships with Isreal. Yes, it is biblical that there will never be peace in the middle east and there is alot of religous backing behind the stuff going on there. they are not an ally just because they are Jews!!

[3Vandoo]

TweetI believe both side should ne nuked to the stone age and peace will be upon us!

[T-Man007]

TweetWell, I do not believe in a pre tibulation rapture. It's out of context. The only mention of anything resembling a rapture is no where near where the tribulation is described in the Bible. This is the dispensationist view. It came from a woman who had a vision back in the late 1800's and became mainstream christian teaching. However, if you read the Bible there is no specific chapter or verse that specifically states a pretribulation rapture. With that said, it doesn't really matter because salvation is not based on whether you believe in a pre-tib rapture. Salvation is based on belief in Christ. That's why it's called Christianity.

Now, in Revelations it talks about the end times and as superdog stated, there have been some misinterpretations. However, I was lucky enough to study the bible under a guy who could read write and speak both Greek and ancient Hebrew and therefore I was given a better understanding of the things we studied. Most of the scrolls were written in Greek or Ancient Hebrew so one who can read, write and speak it can translate it very well. For instance, the whole 666 thing is wrong. Revelations was written in Greek and many, many, many greek historians have stated that the 666 is actually supposed to be translated 696. The number represests a name game that was very popular in Greece around the time John wrote Revelations. Ever letter in the Greek alphabet had a numerical value. If you added all the numerical values of your name up, it would equal a larger number. So, the game was to give a number and guess the name, or visa versa. If you really study Revelations and Dueteronomy (where God describes the tribulation) and you really study history you will see the begining of the tribulation has already begun. In Revelations is states that there will be a seven headed monster. This could be described as the seven Cesars of Rome. It mentions the eagle, which was the common symbol of the Roman army. And, ironically, the 696 is the numerical value of the name Cesar Nero.

There are many things mentioned in the Dueteronomy about the tribulation that Josepheus describes to the tee in his manuscripts. Everything about the war, the starvation, the destruction of the temple, all of that stuff can be proven by historical accounts. For instance, the jewish temple was destroyed the first time when the Assyrian nation slaughter the northern kingdom of the Jews in 722 BC and the rest of the Jews were destroyed byt Babylon in 586 BC. All Jews were under pagan rule during this time. This was the first destruction of the temple. Then, Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) got arrogant about their victory over Isreal and the Medes and Persians, led by King Cyrus, destroyed the Babylonians. Then, if you travel in to the future, the events of the tribulation were recorded just as they were promised by Josephus (a Jewish historian) in 70 AD. He vividly described the famon, the overwhelming army, the drying up of water, everything God promised would take place if the Jews did not follow the law.

Then, if you read versus like Matt 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occured since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will." Ok, read that carfully. Clearly he is saying that the tribulation will be worse than anything ever seen and anything to ever see after. It can't be the end of the world if that verse is correct. There is obviously going to be life after the tribulation and nothing will be worse than what is experienced during the tribulation.

Now, if you continue to read through the rest of the chapter you will come to verse 24:34 and Jesus says "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." Ok, this is Jesus telling these men that their generation will not pass until this has come to be. If you look in the Greek, the word generation comes from the work genea in Greek. And the word genea in Greek means the same thing as generation does to us, it means the average life span between parent and child. So, either Jesus lied or some of those guys are still alive. I'm betting on the fact none of those guys are still alive and therefore those things have already taken place.

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near." Again, read Dueteronomy and then read the writtings of Josephus. It's scary how much he describesthat is almost thesame as God promised it would be. I don't have a manuscript of Josephus on me because I loaned it to a friend or I would quote the similarites.

Ok, what does all that mean? Who knows! I don't know if the tribulation has came and went, if it's even begun or if it is still to come. The only thing I have to believe in is that Christ was the son of God. That's it. All of that other stuff is too easily misconstrued and it starts way too many arguements. My purpose, from a Christian perspective, is to do my absolute best to love everyone! To do my absolute best to glorify God. And that's whay I try to do, my best. Many will do better than me and many will do worse but my only job is to do what I can do. I don't get wrapped up in all the trivial things because I honestly think it's the devils way of dividing the church. You get a bunch of Christians argueing with one another over things like the tribulation and you now have division in the church. It's the same with sin. There are so many Christian who will go out of their way to tell people about the wrong in their life. I hate to tell them, but that's judgement and that's a sin and that makes you equal with the person you are pointing your finger at. There are so many Christians with their hell and damnation approach. Yes, because people respond very well to scare tactics. LOL There are so many Christians who act as if their sins are of less importance to God than the people they accuse of wrong doing. This is something I do not do. My wife will get going about something like a gay parade and I will tell her 'what's different that their sins and yours?' She doesn't like it, but it's true. I sin way too much to ever dare to point my finger at someone else for their sins. The only time I will say anything is if another Christian asks me to hold him accountable for something. If he does something he wants me to hold him accountable I will say something to him about it because he has asked me to. Look, every man and woman will have to anwer for their own sins and it's not my job to point them out to them. If someone want to know about God, I will tell them. If they want to know more, I will tell them, but I will never force it on anyone.

Sorry to get off subject! I didn't mean to hijack your thread bro, but this is what I was feeling so I typed it. LOL

[kite]

TweetVery good post T-man

[superdog]

TweetT-man, I feel ya bro. Being a Christian is about being a good person first.

[PL456]

Tweetthe "judgement" term is so easily passed around these days, and often used to turn arguments around on Christians. as Christians, we are called to point out when our brothers and sisters (the world, as we are all God's children) are participating in a destructive behavior. if your biological brother or sister was doing drugs (a destructive behavior), would you just observe quietly and sush any comments about his behavior, or would you plead with him to change and consider the outcomes? this whole issue of not commenting about homosexuality is the same. if you protest gay marriage, well then you're "judging". Yes, I am judging a BEHAVIOR as WRONG, I am not judging the person's HEART--that is for God to do. God gave us eyes and ears and brains to call things like we see it..

as far as the tribulation goes, it is not for us to know when the time is to come. Jesus said that only the Father knows, we are told to be ready. Thats enough for me.

[pigmeat]

Tweetgood post t-man