TweetIt wont be any different then last year but could be worse for him because there are more tea party canidates.His non involvement in wars is a horrible policy to have. We will always be a nation that helps our allies if they need are help or get rid of dictators if need to be.

quote" His views are generally attributed to those of non-interventionism, which is the belief that the United States should avoid entangling alliances with other nations, but still retain diplomacy, and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial self-defense.[6] Paul is quoted as stating "America [should] not interfere militarily, financially, or covertly in the internal affairs of other nations", while advocating "open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.
Paul's stance on foreign policy is one of non intervention] which opposes war of aggression and entangling alliances with other nations.[Paul advocates bringing troops home from U.S. military bases in Korea, Japan, and Europe, among others. He also proposes that the U.S. stop sending massive unaccountable foreign aid.
Paul believes that mandated hospital emergency treatment for illegal aliens should be ceased and that assistance from charities should instead be sought because there should be no federal mandates on providing health care for illegal aliens.[59]
Paul also believes children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens should not be granted automatic birthright citizenship.[60] He has called for a new Constitutional amendment to revise fourteenth amendment principles and "end automatic birthright citizenship,"[61] and believes that welfare issues are directly tied to the illegal immigration problem.[62]



First off children born in the usa fromn Illegal aliens should be us citizens I cant post everything I dislike but some of these decisions he wants to make is why I cant vote for him and thts just me.

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Originally Posted by FUZO

It wont be any different then last year but could be worse for him because there are more tea party canidates.His non involvement in wars is a horrible policy to have. We will always be a nation that helps our allies if they need are help or get rid of dictators if need to be.

quote" His views are generally attributed to those of non-interventionism, which is the belief that the United States should avoid entangling alliances with other nations, but still retain diplomacy, and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial self-defense.[6] Paul is quoted as stating "America [should] not interfere militarily, financially, or covertly in the internal affairs of other nations", while advocating "open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.
Paul's stance on foreign policy is one of non intervention] which opposes war of aggression and entangling alliances with other nations.[Paul advocates bringing troops home from U.S. military bases in Korea, Japan, and Europe, among others. He also proposes that the U.S. stop sending massive unaccountable foreign aid.
Paul believes that mandated hospital emergency treatment for illegal aliens should be ceased and that assistance from charities should instead be sought because there should be no federal mandates on providing health care for illegal aliens.[59]
Paul also believes children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens should not be granted automatic birthright citizenship.[60] He has called for a new Constitutional amendment to revise fourteenth amendment principles and "end automatic birthright citizenship,"[61] and believes that welfare issues are directly tied to the illegal immigration problem.[62]



First off children born in the usa fromn Illegal aliens should be us citizens I cant post everything I dislike but some of these decisions he wants to make is why I cant vote for him and thts just me.

Fuzo you are correct on Paul's views on the war but you aren't realizing that his views are precisely what the founding fathers all believed. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson wrote about nonintervention extensively. But for some reason hardly anybody cares what the founders thought, they are instead accused of being outdated. But as Paul wrote recently, why then do we appreciate anything else the founders gave us? Why do we think the 1st and 2nd amendments are worth keeping, or the Bill of Rights? But heaven forbid we take their advice on staying out of other countries' affairs. Do you for a second believe that our leaders care about the people of the countries we are invading? I believe the death toll in Iraq is over 1 million. How many of those were terrorists? Ask yourself why we are not saving the people of Darfur, or Somalia, or North Korea, or many of the African states, etc. There is genocide on a massive scale going on right now all around the world, but for some reason we are only concerned with the countries that have a huge supply of oil, or are in the oil region. As for dictators, why were we perfectly okay with all of these dictators for the last thirty to forty years? It's not like Egypt just elected a dictator recently. These are facts. I know you don't want to agree with me here and won't. I care about liberty, and keeping government in check and as small as possible. The only way to have freedom is to have a small government. Well, we are on a path to no freedom and huge government. All of our greatest freedoms have been lost during times of war. This one has been the worst. We are on a path to socialism, which is the stage between capitalism and communism. That is where we are headed whether people wish to believe it or not.

As for the Tea Party movement, I have to be a little shocked at your assertion. You do realize that Ron Paul is the original founder of the Tea Party right? The movement has been hijacked by the Republican Party for the most part but there is still a large Ron Paul gathering in it. The reality however is that most of Ron Paul's supporters are more tuned into the political bs, and understand what liberty truly means as well as the Constitution, thus many are becoming less involved with the Tea Party because they realize it is becoming a big movement for the Republican Party. Keep in mind this one fact, almost every single Tea Party politician that won the last election has sold out already. I wish I could say they haven't but they have. I think you and I believe in many of the same things, but I don't trust politicians. I also don't judge people by their rhetoric, but instead by their actions. I don't care what the Tea Party candidates say, I care about what they do. Their voting records are the only proof I need to realize they have sold out already. There are but a handful of honest politicians who truly care for the country, Paul is the only well known one, but I am sure there are a handful of less well known ones too.

I hope you don't take my disagreement with you on Paul the wrong way. I am a firm believer that he has the right agenda for getting our country back on the right track. Will he win? Of course not, but he may alert a lot more people to the importance of preserving liberty. People agree with Paul on more than they think. That is why he wins so many straw poles. He resonates with people. There are actually Republicans that have now said had they known what they know now they wouldn't have voted in favor of the Iraq War. Well, Paul was saying that all along, but he gets no credit. He has also been warning of financial chaos, but gets ignored or ridiculed. He will prove correct. Maybe some day people will wake up and realize he is not so wacky.

TweetJsjs I wouldnt ever think any different about you because we disagree

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Originally Posted by FUZO

Jsjs I wouldnt ever think any different about you because we disagree

I'm glad to hear that Fuzo. But like I said, I don't think we disagree on the fundamental issues such as limited government, fiscal conservative budgets, less regulations, etc. I think the war issue is where I have strayed away from many Republicans over the last couple years. This has been a tough issue with me. My job in a way compromises my principles, which I am not to keen on, but I have certain ways of looking at it. I've served in the war several times and seen more than most people ever have or will. I do have friends that have served who believe the opposite of me, however they have surely not studied the history of war as I have. Most people just listen to the politicians' message about the war and then support it because they feel they must support the troops. Well, Ron Paul received more donations from military last election than any other candidate. Furthermore, I know plenty of active duty Army from privates to warrant officers who are huge Ron Paul fans, and opposed to the war. They still serve proudly, but do not agree with it whatsoever. There are no clear objectives in these wars, thus the more intelligent soldiers eventually figure it out, and wonder what the hell are we doing over here.

But other than the war I believe most Republicans would agree with more of Ron Paul's views than the other candidates. Anyone who truly believes the Constitution should be the law of the land should consider Paul, for there is not other person who follows it more strictly, which is why he is often referred to as the champion of the Constitution.

Tweetwar, i've been working on war issues in relation to currency issues and central banks, imho, i think it explains alot of the world in the last 250 years

here's what I think is going on without the dissertation

until we crushed england in 1790 u went to war to enslave and plunder, it was profit to increase standard of living

WWI, which we didn't want to fight, yet, we did, we beat germany and rather than enslave or plunder it, we said, hey, u gotta pay a fine

of course no one envisioned ******, so we gotta go back for round II

what most folks don't realize is that japan had been plundering china for 30 years cause they had limited natty resource, after WWI we constantly told them to cut the crap out, they did not and thought strategically we could not fight two wars, there goal was never too rule us or plunder us, just to scare the crap out of us so we'd mind our own business

well, they got NUKED, bye bye, no one saw that coming

which leaves us back to Germany, they lost

imho, US of A had had enough and at Brenton Woods decided to control the world thru the currency, so essentially we plundered and enslaved en mass in one fell swoop

why? imho, it came down to self preservation, we will come hell or high water not be nuked like japan, and we feel no one should be

yet, in the world there is always a ****** in the making

thus, we get 180 military bases and and a military budget 20 times bigger than the other 10 biggest countries combined

in certain ways it makes me wonder if when someone becomes president in there first week of office they get the memo and are like WTF this is what i'm in charge of

in my mind it answers alot of questions

yes mr prez u do rule the world and this is how it's done, good luck


of course the president goes, well okay, "what's the worse that could happen, how I could screw it all up"

and then he get's the keynes vs hayek fight

and who goes, "who's are guy who do we back"

"why keynes of course, it is the only way we can continue to rule the world"

hmmmm, he says, "tell me about this hayek guy"

"well, he loses almost all the time, he's a loser"

"Does he ever win"

"Hardly ever, historically he wins one every 100 years, that's the good news, the bad news is when he does win, it's a total knockout"

"Could he win one on my watch"

"oh yes, if u don't back keynes 100% 100% of time"

"can he still win"

"oh yeah, and if he does, we will no longer rule the world"

"and if we don't rule the world what will happen"

"ahhh hell, no one is really sure, yet, we do know we all loose all are money and have to go back to work"

and imho, JS, that's what is going on right here, right now

i don't think all this bs ends until fiat money collapses, and when it does, huge beyond imagination fortunes will be made quickly, and then walla we will have fiat money again

where in lies my greatest fear is that that is china's present game plan, just out wait us

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Originally Posted by trip

and imho, JS, that's what is going on right here, right now

i don't think all this bs ends until fiat money collapses, and when it does, huge beyond imagination fortunes will be made quickly, and then walla we will have fiat money again

where in lies my greatest fear is that that is china's present game plan, just out wait us

Very interesting point. I would say Hayek is right 100% of the time, not once in a 100 years. I am reading Human Action now by Ludwig von Mises, one of the founders of the Austrian School. He does say that a fiat currency must end in a complete catastrophe. I do agree with you on China by the way. Keynes on the other hand was a wacko. What is interesting though is that Keynes read Hayek's The Road to Serfdom and said he agreed with most everything in it. Keynes contradicted himself like that on many issues.

Tweethere's the conundrum

hard money hayek is correct, i'm with u on that

banks and politicians love keynes, and are in control

whereas keynes theories came around in 30's

thru out history banks and politicians controlled debt and credit, destruction happened when bubbles got out of control, or politicians lost power meaning the banks lost big time, that's just human history of commerce

a study of history shows that in the long run hard money, ie, gold always wins out

i've been struggling over gold for years to understand it, and ron paul is mr. gold

imho, pauls point is that we're idiots to think we can control capitalism and or freedom, never gonna happen, so keynes and all his stuff is just when u get down to it, is stupid and unproductive and a way for governments to control peoples lives

i think i kind of now see what a real libertarian believes and why, even though i've said i'm a libertarian, i don't think i got this core issue or point until recently

for me in past libertarian is just on the surface smarter more logical seems obvious to me, yet, i was not a passionate libertarian, i have enough passions already, lol

see i've said i thought starting in 2020 is when libertarians hit there stride, i've i myself am just getting it after siding with them for 30 years alot more work needs to be done

yet, with the internet learning can happen faster etc.

i kind of think ron paul understands all of this, ie, his chances, yet, every journey starts with one step

slogan

RON PAUL IS THE ONLY REAL AMERICAN IN THE RACE, HE IS THE ONLY POLITICIAN THAT BELIEVES IN FREEDOM

i swear im just starting to get this completely

Tweetu see humans by design desire to control because it is required for survival

so in an ass backwards way we want to control freedom

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Originally Posted by trip

here's the conundrum


RON PAUL IS THE ONLY REAL AMERICAN IN THE RACE, HE IS THE ONLY POLITICIAN THAT BELIEVES IN FREEDOM

i swear im just starting to get this completely

Trip you are reacting just the way I did about a year or so ago. It was not all making complete sense to me until I found the Austrian School. That is why Ron Paul gets it imo, because he reads from the Austrian School.

Tweetlol, for me it was the more of an emotional thing, passion can easily become blinded and angry which is like the hard money guys, and keynes is laise' fare, which can easily become lazy and stupid, so that's kind of how i see the fight

and my position was more logical, it is just inherently smarter to be prudent, yet, i would say being an empathetic person i had sympathy for the laise' fare guys, like oh they just get crazy at times they will self correct, and yet when they didn't and u read history and they never do

then i started thinking about politics and iceland, ireland, portugal, greece..........spain, italy

and i was like logically are politicians are no smarter than there's, and yet they've imploded there countries economically, so even though i knew most of the story i researched them, and i guess it was easier cause less moving parts and no emotions tied to...........and the conclusion, the only in hell it could have happened was bankers and politicians colluding with one another, and again, not so much that there intentions where bad or the plan was too steal it is just the facts are the facts, when they got in trouble, they changed laws, moved debt around, swept things under the rug, and had all these little bitty shitty things they did to keep others at bay by saying one thing and promising a big action and they did take an action, yet, in reality it was massive in publicity yet on the scale of a grain of sand, each one is exactly the same

and still in all these cases today u still have hard money guys in those countries fighting the politicians and banks who undeniably fcked it all up, and it is the same old same old

to think we are different has the potential to be deadly, so why are we not more concerned

my only conclusion was we already control so whatever happens we will control that so, what me worry

again, hard to swallow yet if enough do it is where the money is being made