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Originally Posted by FUZO

theres the other side that soldiers want to see this finished through to the end

Trust me bro, I want to see it finished through to the end, but it's stunts like this that keep it going.
When it comes to the political side and foreign policy, I strongly believe that our occupation is why they hate us. But when you look at the religious side, you can never really know if it will ever end. But just like there are moderate christians that don't follow the bible word for word, there are also moderate muslims that are the same way. Not all muslims hate us. Especially the ones who live among us.

Tweetwe need to put just as much effort into getting terrorists OUT of our country as we are putting into fighting the war in afghanistan. The muslim terrorists who are already here are the biggest threat we face. Yes we need to do some profiling of muslims and if they are radical, they need to be watched via satellite and then blown to pieces if they act up...this bullshyt of making people jump thru hoops at airports is foikin ridiculous..they confiscate our cologne and shampoo and shyt at the airport because of some foikin islamists .arrrgghhh...lol...It is enough to make anyone want to burn a koran.I totally understand the anger, but it wouldnt do a bit of good, and people need to have a lot more respect for our troops over there

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Originally Posted by Dzone

we need to put just as much effort into getting terrorists OUT of our country as we are putting into fighting the war in afghanistan. The muslim terrorists who are already here are the biggest threat we face. Yes we need to do some profiling of muslims and if they are radical, they need to be watched via satellite and then blown to pieces if they act up...this bullshyt of making people jump thru hoops at airports is foikin ridiculous..they confiscate our cologne and shampoo and shyt at the airport because of some foikin islamists .arrrgghhh...lol...It is enough to make anyone want to burn a koran.I totally understand the anger, but it wouldnt do a bit of good, and people need to have a lot more respect for our troops over there

Ugh, let's talk about airport screening. I was once dating a girl with a 3 year old daughter and they stopped us to search the kid. Another time they stopped me to do a search and I'm traveling on orders and using my military ID. I understand random searches, but shyte, use your fockin heads!

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Originally Posted by FUZO

Like I said I see all your points and I see why soldiers would be pissed because I dont want any of them in harms way but ive always been brought up a eye for a eye. Why should they be able to burn our flag every friggin time and if we do anything to other countries or bad people then we are wrong

holy shit, 2pgs! I gotta catch up, but Fuzo. Exactly. I stopped here for now.
I'm just saying. There have been so many bible burnings. Flag burning...Controvertial acts in the name of "being American" and "freedom" don't surprise me. What surprises me, that if we drop a rung and hit 'em where they feel it. The world gets up in arms. **** that! Freedom right?
Bring our troops home to serve their home if need be. Homeland. That sucks we got men and woman over seas having to die away from their families anyway.

TweetAll resourses, American. yeah, dreamin. and then drop all ridiculous regulation and tax while we're making that transition. People would hate us for going all American.

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Originally Posted by horsepwr

holy shit, 2pgs! I gotta catch up, but Fuzo. Exactly. I stopped here for now.
I'm just saying. There have been so many bible burnings. Flag burning...Controvertial acts in the name of "being American" and "freedom" don't surprise me. What surprises me, that if we drop a rung and hit 'em where they feel it. The world gets up in arms. **** that! Freedom right?
Bring our troops home to serve their home if need be. Homeland. That sucks we got men and woman over seas having to die away from their families anyway.

LOL...yeah horse, look what you started with this post!...Its about time we had a good discussion on here!!! Good post!

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Originally Posted by straydoglogic

You and I will have to discuss this in a private conversation. I have things to respond to on this post.

Let me backtrack a bit and make on exception on here. Those in the middle east do seem to fight for religious reasons, however we will never know what the leaders of those countries truly think. It is my opinion that the leaders of most of those countries are not all that religious but are instead hypocrites who use the Koran to maintain the loyalty of their ignorant citizens. However, some of them may indeed believe all this crazy stuff, but I still think it has more to do with oil and land in their case. But of course they do hate the Jews pretty bad which makes me believe some of those leaders do perhaps believe all the crap they preach. Either way, the vast majority of wars still are fought for reasons other than religion, but they do come across as being fought in the name of religion. Do you think any of those leaders are ever going to blow themselves up? That is supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice but you don't see any of the wealthy sheiks or leaders of those nations doing so. Thus they are hypocrites at a minimum.

TweetThat's right Jsjs. I watchyed a great report on Al Qieda on HBO the other night. I have it recorded because I got interupted, so I want to finish it. It's an excellent piece of journalism. Excellent! let me get the title...mother^%$#er!..Somebody deleted it. It was good. I bring it up because the reporter. I wish I had his name because he deserves much credit for this piece. It's more of a documentary. But this journalist profiled the suicide bomber, and the guys that flew the planes into the WTC. They all don't have much. For instance one of the men grew up wanting to become a pilot. An honest living and earning pilot. He failed, and he could not get his pilot's license so he returned to Ta'hir, I believe it was, which is a unique "crossroads" in the underworld of these depressed, "nothing left", loners that have nothing but guess what to turn to? You guessed it. Radical Jihad terrorism in the name of Islam. Ya don't need much to go all out Islam and go that route. You can be that guy that's lost everything, or has nothing to begin with. But, as you said Jsjs. You won't be seeing a top-dog money-man with honeys on the side, and all the spoils pullin jobs in the name of Alah. That's something else that this reporter pointed out. He spent a couple years over there, If I remember. (long time). But the males never get any civil, what most of the world sees as real-world training, in...take something so normal as the opposite sex, for instance. The males in Saudi, Egypt, The big monarch countries...they grow up hanging with other males only. Females are covered, always. And this covering is taught to them so strict from the beginning. Very young ages. A school had caught fire in Egypt. All little girl's school. This beautiful young girl, about 8 maybe, made it out. Her father was standing outside. Instead of grabbing her up and getting her safe, this fukhead of a dad made her go back into the burning school to get her face covering. She never made it back out. Very pretty little Egyption girl too. Heart breaking.

The reporter mentioned Bin Laden, of course. He said, "It doesn't matter how wealthy you are, or your family. You're not royalty." The kings' portraits are everywhere. Huge distinction. No matter how rich. You ain't shit. Royalty. We have a president that understands this well. We've seen him touch his forehead to his knees to middle-eastern royalty. He knows well. I have something else I'd like to add to the monarchies. Fuk 'em. They ain't shit. Deserve no fukin bows. And no American should, or would've, ever dropped for a mid-eastern monarchy. Obama makes history though.

Back to the topic. So many of you don't believe it's the right thing to do. (burn the Koran). It'll cause bad recoil. It'll stir shit. Yeah. Just the thought made tidal-waves. I agree. It would've elevated tensions beyond ever before. That act of freedom would've caused negative resentment. Can there be more negative resentment for us in many of those areas where bit would've played out most?
I like the strong opinions against burning a book. It's a book. This thread has had to teach some of us about ourselves things that we did not know were inside our hearts and minds. I know...I've read from some that have spoken out strongly against this burning, have been some of the most vocal about freedom, live and let live, etc...The true American way. But if an American dropps to the "other guy's level", then, whoa!!! We can't have that. And reasons given why such a bad idea.
It's just a book. Like The Holy Bible. Like Ole Glory. 1st and foremost, though. 'It's a display of freedom'...'What the preacher was going to do was very American.'
I realize all the negativity that could come out of it. Bring our Americans home damnit!!!
The only reason this preacher isn't doing this, is because he realizes the pain it could cause other Americans.

Remember the Americans that were murdered 9yrs ago today.
If you don't believe in America, or our ways, liberties and freedom. If you don't stand when we do. Then you don't deserve our freedoms, and get the fuk out. Fuk off. Bring our troops home. Build our military to be the strongest in the galaxy again. Burn wtf you want to and if someone has something to say about it. Tell 'em to mind their own biz.
I'm more than sure, especially after hearing from the pastor's son of the big koran burning thing, that they wanted the attention brought to their front doors. They wanted to harm no-one abroad or overseas in combat. I guess it ain't that easy.

TweetAnother thing that gets me. I expected to hear of the distaste in the Koran burning Day, etc...but I am surprised to hear, from some, of the hypotheticals, what-ifs, and why it's so wrong. What happened to that doctrine of freedom that everyone claims to go by? I'm surprised this bothers some of you so bad when, ultimately, the guy's just burning some books.
I'm just so purplexed at the subject matter which has the power to strum on the heart strings of so many Americans with such a tone that brings emotions to the table. Amazing. After all that doesn't, and is just looked at as, "If you're a true American and constitutionalist. (Such-n-such) shouldn't bother you."
All the lessons I've had on tolerating things against America, myself, and my way of life. Now, tolerance is nowhere to be found for one of our own. Yep. As bad as you might think of him. That Gainsville pastor is an American 1st.
tolerance. That's where it gets volatile. freedom and tolerance. What a volatile mix.

TweetThe other day the scumbag president spoke and he spoke about burning the koran book and how bad it will affect the people over there in the muslim world and how it will upset the terriorists and he went on and on about thre book, But not one god damn time did he say anything abut our 911 people that died or the families that were upset or there feelings he just went on about the muslims and there feelings. It makes me sick to see this countries president make a speech and not say anything about 911 just about the muslims,how dare he.

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Originally Posted by FUZO

The other day the scumbag president spoke and he spoke about burning the koran book and how bad it will affect the people over there in the muslim world and how it will upset the terriorists and he went on and on about thre book, But not one god damn time did he say anything abut our 911 people that died or the families that were upset or there feelings he just went on about the muslims and there feelings. It makes me sick to see this countries president make a speech and not say anything about 911 just about the muslims,how dare he.

Im wondering if when he said the word "koran" in that speech if he said it like a regular american says it or if he said it with that arab accent like he does when he is talking to a muslim audience. Every time he said it it was "The Holy Quaaraaann"...I would bet that when he is speaking to regular Amaricans he just says Koran, instead of "The Holy Quuaaarraaann!"...Im glad I didnt hear that speech cuz it woulda pissed me off

Tweetdzone it made me sick man

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Originally Posted by horsepwr

Another thing that gets me. I expected to hear of the distaste in the Koran burning Day, etc...but I am surprised to hear, from some, of the hypotheticals, what-ifs, and why it's so wrong. What happened to that doctrine of freedom that everyone claims to go by? I'm surprised this bothers some of you so bad when, ultimately, the guy's just burning some books.
I'm just so purplexed at the subject matter which has the power to strum on the heart strings of so many Americans with such a tone that brings emotions to the table. Amazing. After all that doesn't, and is just looked at as, "If you're a true American and constitutionalist. (Such-n-such) shouldn't bother you."
All the lessons I've had on tolerating things against America, myself, and my way of life. Now, tolerance is nowhere to be found for one of our own. Yep. As bad as you might think of him. That Gainsville pastor is an American 1st.
tolerance. That's where it gets volatile. freedom and tolerance. What a volatile mix.

You missed my view on the subject apparently horsepwr. I said I couldn't care less if people burn that book, and frankly I despise the whole religion. What I am concerned with is the repercussions overseas due to it. I have been there during times of media madness and trust me, they attack us big time. Thus, some soldier is gonna get blown up by a rocket that would not have been shot had this event not taking place. There is already enough hostility over there, why add more. If the media weren't going to air it all over Al-Jazzera TV then I'd say burn it. But just to emphasize, I have no problem with his right to do it, but I fear it is going to endanger troops and possibly Americans too. He has the freedom to do it and I am not asking for the government to stop him either, it will just be him that has to live with his decision but no way in hell do I condone stopping him through government or law enforcement action. My stance has not changed one bit, I just know that it is going to get people killed who probably wouldn't have had this not happened. That's my point plain and simple. The same with the Mosque, I have no problem with it being built, but it is in bad taste. I would rather it not be built, but I don't want to go down that road of the government telling us what we can build and what we can't build. On another note, I don't have much consideration for Muslims, and I don't give a damn how many of them are good, I just want to see the Constitution upheld. Personally I wish there weren't any Muslims in this country because I'm sick of the pandering to them and I believe a lot more of them are radical than what the government leads us to believe. I actually believe our immigration system needs some modifications, and Muslims should be prevented from coming over here in as large of numbers as they have been. Thomas Jefferson even thought we should reconsider the number of foreigners we permit in this country and from where they come from. There is nothing unconstitutional about that because they aren't citizens until we grant them citizenship. Thus, stop allowing them in our country in the first place. I had a gf once who converted to Muslim and you know what, I broke up with her. I am not going to be subjected to those views in my personal home....period. But they deserve their freedom if they are already here and are citizens I just don't want to have anything to do with them.