Tweetyeah, if we're letting responsibility be the deciding factor, that's gotta rule out the majority at any age. And what's the cause of such an irresponsible people?

Tweeti say let them join the army but not go to war until 21, if thats your argument. 18 is just a kid with bad judgement in most cases

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Originally Posted by jipped genes

i say let them join the army but not go to war until 21, if thats your argument. 18 is just a kid with bad judgement in most cases

So we should raise the voting age to 21 then? I don't want some kid with bad judgement voting for the President, or local officials.

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Originally Posted by angryoldman

So we should raise the voting age to 21 then? I don't want some kid with bad judgement voting for the President, or local officials.

Realistically - how many 18 year old do you know that are chomping at the bit to vote??? Voting, drinking, and the military are 3 TOTALLY different issues and shouldnt be lumped together because of age.

TweetI understand the whole 'you can die for your country' thing but the truth is the reason why the drinking age is 21 is because more stupid things are done by people under 21 than over. It's a proven fact that the part of the brain that controls logic and reasoning doesn't even start to fully deveope until 18. So, letting people who don't even have control over their logic and reasoning drink is a bad idea. If you don't agree, go ahead and support it and when your car insurance bill doubles I don't want to hear anyone complain. Costs are going up everywhere and now with something like this our car insurance will double. How do I know, I asked my insurance girl about it. It's not about the fact I have no tickets, it's about the fact you have a bunch of immature people driving around drunk that are way more likely to do something stupid than those over 21. This will go down as one of the greatest fuk ups of all time.....just wait and see. Psychologically, emotionally, responsibly and common sense wise, this is a dumb idea at best. Letting kids drink earlier is NOT going to stop kids from binge drinking, they just start doing it at 16 and 17 instead of 18, 19 and 20. It doesn't take a degree from MIT to do that math on that one.

I want each and every one of you that thinks this is a good idea to call your insurace agent and ask them what the ramifications will be if this passes and then let me know how you feel then.

Also, if you want to see the study on the teen brain, read this:

By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY
A new review of adolescent brain research suggests that society is wasting billions of dollars on education and intervention programs to dissuade teens from dangerous activities, because their immature brains are not yet capable of avoiding risky behaviors.
The analysis, by Temple University psychologist Laurence Steinberg, says stricter laws and policies limiting their behaviors would be more effective than education programs.
"We need to rethink our whole approach to preventing teen risk," says Steinberg, whose review of a decade of research is in the April issue of Current Directions in Psychological Science. It's published by the Association for Psychological Science.
"Adolescents are at an age where they do not have full capacity to control themselves," he says. "As adults, we need to do some of the controlling."
After age 18
Neurological researchers around the country, spearheaded by Jay Giedd of the National Institute of Mental Health, have in recent years found that the brain is not fully developed until after 18. The brain system that regulates logic and reasoning develops before the area that regulates impulse and emotions, the researchers say.
Studies by Steinberg and others have found that the mere physical presence of peers increased the likelihood of teens taking risks.
Peer pressure rules
Now he's using brain imaging to better understand why teens are so susceptible to peer pressure. He has just begun pilot projects to study brain activity in teens when doing various tasks with their peers, compared with adults under similar circumstances.
Steinberg believes raising the driving age, increasing the price of cigarettes and more strongly enforcing underage drinking laws are among ways to really curb risky behavior.
"I don't believe the problem behind teen risky behavior is a lack of knowledge. The programs do a good job in teaching kids the facts," he says. "Education alone doesn't work. It doesn't seem to affect their behavior."
Michael Bradley, a Philadelphia-area psychologist and author specializing in teenagers, says U.S. culture tends to view teens as small adults when, neurologically, they are large children.
"Kids will sign drug pledges. They really mean that, but when they get in a park on a Friday night with their friends, that pledge is nowhere to be found in their brain structure. They're missing the neurologic brakes that adults have."
Bradley also is worried about the future now that risky behaviors have trickled to the preteen set.
"People look at risk statistics, and they're more or less steady. It looks like things aren't getting that bad. But risk behaviors have been ratcheted down to younger and younger ages," he says. "What the parents may have dealt with at ages 16 and 17, the kids are dealing with at 11, 12 and 13 — at the time when their brains are least able to handle complex decisions about risk behaviors."

As you can see, they are not capable of making wise choices.....add alcohol to that and you get really fukin bad choices. This whole thing is a bad idea. The lawmakers like it because they will make a lot more money on alcohol tax, but the rest of the country will suffer from higher car insurance. Also, how many college students do you know with new cars? Most drive beat up used ones and only carry the minimun in insurance. That won't cover the bill is someone is sued for vehicular homiside. So, who eats that bill? The insuarnce company will and then pass the expense to us.

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Originally Posted by quirkysmilin

Realistically - how many 18 year old do you know that are chomping at the bit to vote??? Voting, drinking, and the military are 3 TOTALLY different issues and shouldnt be lumped together because of age.

it's just the point of at what age are you an adult. as stray said, the legal drinking age oversea's is 16 and they dont have the prob's we do!

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Originally Posted by daved150

it's just the point of at what age are you an adult. as stray said, the legal drinking age oversea's is 16 and they dont have the prob's we do!

The reason why they don't have the problems we do is because they typically don't have the same things exposed to their kids that we do. Kids don't go into schools and kill other kids like they do here, kids don't sit on their fat asses all day playing games that teach them about killing cops and hanging out with hookers, kids don't get drugs shoved down their throats, in other countries most kids have much better relationships with their parents and they are more confident and they do less stupid things. Also, American kids rank 25th in the world in education, so it's safe to say that kids in other countries are smarter than our kids too. Smarter kids make wiser choices.

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Originally Posted by T-Man007

The reason why they don't have the problems we do is because they typically don't have the same things exposed to their kids that we do. Kids don't go into schools and kill other kids like they do here, kids don't sit on their fat asses all day playing games that teach them about killing cops and hanging out with hookers, kids don't get drugs shoved down their throats, in other countries most kids have much better relationships with their parents and they are more confident and they do less stupid things. Also, American kids rank 25th in the world in education, so it's safe to say that kids in other countries are smarter than our kids too. Smarter kids make wiser choices.

....you may have a point. i can only base my opinion on my experience. i, and all my friends, drank at 18 (15) and never had any prob's, but i got a dui at 35. my son (19) drinks, and i find him and his friends to be VERY responcible about it....sorry, i dont see the mass prob's that you do. do i believe the insurance company's will take that opertunity to futher rape their customers? ofcourse they will...just as the gas companies will blame hurricain tyrone, which didnt come within a 100 miles of them, for raising gas prices. i just feel, that if we, as a nation, feel they (18yr olds) are responcible enough for all these other things, they should be allowed to have a beer.

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Originally Posted by quirkysmilin

Realistically - how many 18 year old do you know that are chomping at the bit to vote??? Voting, drinking, and the military are 3 TOTALLY different issues and shouldnt be lumped together because of age.

It doesn't matter how many 18 year olds are chomping at the bit to vote; they have the right because our government deems them responsible. The right to vote, eligibility for the military and drinking are correlated by when an individual is deemed responsible enough for certain rights - our government lets 18 year olds be eligible for what they need them for, killing and dieing and denies them the right to drink. It's contradicting and hypocritical. If you can die for your country, you should be able to drink and if people don't think 18 year olds are responsible enough to drink then they shouldn't be responsible enough to decide to put their life on the line for their country.

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Originally Posted by straydoglogic

isnt this just for the specific colleges that are fighting for this?
i say lower the drinking age...i think by trying to make people wait causes a problem because when you finally turn 21 it becomes a milestone..so you wanna live it up party and get drunk as shyte...the legal age here is 16...and people here dont tend to drink like we do because its not glorified...they have a few drinks here and there but dont go out looking to get shyte faced..i think its because that excitement and glorification is gone when they are at a young age..so they dont see it as such a spectacular thing...its the same in spain...i also think that by making people wait then they feel rebelious as teens and it makes it even cooler to do

That is interesting, I think that is a good point.

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Originally Posted by Klash

It doesn't matter how many 18 year olds are chomping at the bit to vote; they have the right because our government deems them responsible. The right to vote, eligibility for the military and drinking are correlated by when an individual is deemed responsible enough for certain rights - our government lets 18 year olds be eligible for what they need them for, killing and dieing and denies them the right to drink. It's contradicting and hypocritical. If you can die for your country, you should be able to drink and if people don't think 18 year olds are responsible enough to drink then they shouldn't be responsible enough to decide to put their life on the line for their country.

I used to think that until my son got closer and closer to turning 18. The ability to make rational choices is not built into an 18 year old. As for the military aspect, some folks have no other choice but to join the military. Life has either not handed them a tremendous amount of options or bad choices in life leave them no other choice. Drinking is an option, and option that an 18 year old can handle. Maybe my opinion is altered by having the child I have and realizing his lack of decision making skills at times. I'm sure that if your child was nearing 18, you would be hesitant too. I mean most folks shudder at the thought of their kids driving. I know my kid has had alcohol, I'm just saying he shouldnt have the option to pop on over to the pub while still in high school. Just my .02.

TweetOops - should have said CANT handle!! **** fat fingers!! Any exercises anyone can recommend?

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Originally Posted by quirkysmilin

I used to think that until my son got closer and closer to turning 18. The ability to make rational choices is not built into an 18 year old. As for the military aspect, some folks have no other choice but to join the military. Life has either not handed them a tremendous amount of options or bad choices in life leave them no other choice. Drinking is an option, and option that an 18 year old can handle. Maybe my opinion is altered by having the child I have and realizing his lack of decision making skills at times. I'm sure that if your child was nearing 18, you would be hesitant too. I mean most folks shudder at the thought of their kids driving. I know my kid has had alcohol, I'm just saying he shouldnt have the option to pop on over to the pub while still in high school. Just my .02.

If you don't think an 18 year old has the mental faculties to make rational decisions when given the option to drink; those same mental faculties would be the ones he relies on when choosing to to join the military or when deciding who should lead our nation. So for you to remain consistent you should oppose 18 year olds being eligible for the military or voting.