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Originally Posted by FUZO

WHY DONT WE START BUILDING STUFF OVER IN MEXICO AND START TAKING UP THERE COUNTRY. THERE HERE SO WE WILL GO THERE AND BUILD. AMERICANIZE IT EVEN MORE

HAHAHAHA! Exactly!

We're actually starting to do that. Americans are starting to retire there.

TweetThis is a screwed up problem we face. But I will say this. Out of I can't tell you how many illegals I know, a lot of them. There is only a small percentage that fall into the category that the above article leans towards. Regarding the Spanish community they are really hard working, family oriented people. And out of all the ones I have known on a business level being in the car business they pay taxes. I know so because while they may not have SS #'s in ever case but they do have tax ID's and I do see a lot of bank statements and tax filings to back up they income for financing. Now I understand there are a lot on a cash basis and a lot not paying taxes. But there also a lot of Americans not paying taxes.

I happen to be or very recently used to be for 15 years in the high line automobile business so I understand fully I see a different cliente (all races) than say for instance a buy here pay here type of auto business. I will say this though having a good friend for 20 years owning several buy here pay here car lots and dealing with a lot of true illegals that they have a MUCH MUCH lower repo rate than the ghetto and white trash that buy from him. They spanish pay!! whether Mexican, Guatamalen, Ecaudorian etc.. They don't want trouble, they have familes and while they may love their beer at the end of the day, they are typically not drug addicts.

I can promise you there are more legal aliens than there are illegal aliens in the U.S. And just because someone don't have a green card doesn't mean they are illegal. There are such things as Visa's, work permits, etc.. etc.. It takes YEARS and a LOT of money to become a citizen. MUCH longer and MUCH more money than it took our ancestors. Since we are ALL Aliens outside of the Native Americans. I know one girl that has beeing trying to get her Citizenship for 30years. Someone I know very well and personal and has always worked, paid taxes finaced cars and homes, just like you and me. While she is not considered illegal, most people in America think if you are not a citizen or have a Green card and speak spanish as your primary language then you are ILLEGAL. The news even feeds this mind set.

As far as what would happen to the U.S. that article is so blantantly leaned towards her biased views it's not even funny. This "Tina Gringo" or whatever her name is. Obviously has some racial issues. You just can't label Spanish speaking, illegal all in the same sentence with criminal. Doing so it's obvious the intent is to slant the intent of the article.

Now I am not Anti American by any means. But you can't simply look at the situation from one view. If there are willing to come here work hard for less that is good for the economy. Yes it has it's negatives and those will always be argued. But if it wasn't for our ancestors coming here working hard for less then America wouldn't be what it is today. We are begining to forget what America is all about. Building a Billion dollar wall is F ing stupid waste of tax payers money. And to insult our intelligence saying it's for anti terrorism. How uninviting is a wall? Hell we just made a big deal about tearing one down in Europe just to go a build one here. One day in 50 years we'll be tearing it down too.

It's not an easy fix and it's not always black and white as the media would have you think. I get sick or seeing people frequentyl refer to spanish speaking people as probably illegal. It's just not always the case.

TweetDJ is right. The cost of a home built by an all American GC that uses all American subs is no greater than the cost of the house next to it that was built by the GC that uses Mex subs, but you definietly will find some major differences in workmanship. Unless they, (Mexicans), have a foreman over them all day, the quality of work will suffer. They claim to be cappable of any trade. Well just because they can make something look the same in half the time at half the material cost doesn't mean that they are a master of that trade. It usually means you just got a shotty product.

TweetWELL I NEED A COUPLE AMIGOS TO FIX UP MY OTHER BATH ROOM I DONT WANT TO DO IT

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Originally Posted by Superior1

This is a screwed up problem we face. But I will say this. Out of I can't tell you how many illegals I know, a lot of them. There is only a small percentage that fall into the category that the above article leans towards. Regarding the Spanish community they are really hard working, family oriented people. And out of all the ones I have known on a business level being in the car business they pay taxes. I know so because while they may not have SS #'s in ever case but they do have tax ID's and I do see a lot of bank statements and tax filings to back up they income for financing. Now I understand there are a lot on a cash basis and a lot not paying taxes. But there also a lot of Americans not paying taxes.

I happen to be or very recently used to be for 15 years in the high line automobile business so I understand fully I see a different cliente (all races) than say for instance a buy here pay here type of auto business. I will say this though having a good friend for 20 years owning several buy here pay here car lots and dealing with a lot of true illegals that they have a MUCH MUCH lower repo rate than the ghetto and white trash that buy from him. They spanish pay!! whether Mexican, Guatamalen, Ecaudorian etc.. They don't want trouble, they have familes and while they may love their beer at the end of the day, they are typically not drug addicts.

I can promise you there are more legal aliens than there are illegal aliens in the U.S. And just because someone don't have a green card doesn't mean they are illegal. There are such things as Visa's, work permits, etc.. etc.. It takes YEARS and a LOT of money to become a citizen. MUCH longer and MUCH more money than it took our ancestors. Since we are ALL Aliens outside of the Native Americans. I know one girl that has beeing trying to get her Citizenship for 30years. Someone I know very well and personal and has always worked, paid taxes finaced cars and homes, just like you and me. While she is not considered illegal, most people in America think if you are not a citizen or have a Green card and speak spanish as your primary language then you are ILLEGAL. The news even feeds this mind set.

As far as what would happen to the U.S. that article is so blantantly leaned towards her biased views it's not even funny. This "Tina Gringo" or whatever her name is. Obviously has some racial issues. You just can't label Spanish speaking, illegal all in the same sentence with criminal. Doing so it's obvious the intent is to slant the intent of the article.

Now I am not Anti American by any means. But you can't simply look at the situation from one view. If there are willing to come here work hard for less that is good for the economy. Yes it has it's negatives and those will always be argued. But if it wasn't for our ancestors coming here working hard for less then America wouldn't be what it is today. We are begining to forget what America is all about. Building a Billion dollar wall is F ing stupid waste of tax payers money. And to insult our intelligence saying it's for anti terrorism. How uninviting is a wall? Hell we just made a big deal about tearing one down in Europe just to go a build one here. One day in 50 years we'll be tearing it down too.

It's not an easy fix and it's not always black and white as the media would have you think. I get sick or seeing people frequentyl refer to spanish speaking people as probably illegal. It's just not always the case.

Of coarse it's not always the case, but the numbers prove that the masses are indeed illegal. Your story about them buying cars made me think of what I saw a few months ago. I was crossing a bay bridge and saw a few decent looking newer cars pulled over with several cops around the area. In the median, behind the cars, down the road alittle ways. Turns out, on the news that evening, they pulled these cars that were full of Mexicans, and the Mexicans took off running leaving the cars. The reason; they were part of a new trend of Mexicans stealing cars and using them for transportation to and from their construction sites. These were illegal aliens as well.

Tweetyou, as an american, cannot own land in mexico....

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Originally Posted by BigDawg

But the important question is who is going to cut my damn lawn???

Well if your lawn was EMO it would cut itself.

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Of coarse it's not always the case, but the numbers prove that the masses are indeed illegal. Your story about them buying cars made me think of what I saw a few months ago. I was crossing a bay bridge and saw a few decent looking newer cars pulled over with several cops around the area. In the median, behind the cars, down the road alittle ways. Turns out, on the news that evening, they pulled these cars that were full of Mexicans, and the Mexicans took off running leaving the cars. The reason; they were part of a new trend of Mexicans stealing cars and using them for transportation to and from their construction sites. These were illegal aliens as well.

No disrespect, but what numbers. Could you clarify?

TweetINS reports, 2000 Census, and current Census Bureau investigations show the 2000 reports inaccurate. It's understandably difficult to get an accurate count of illegals. It doesn't take rocket science to understand that we have a great number of illegals in the US. Some say 15million. Some say greater. I'd be willing to bet that the masses I witnessed working on huge farms in rural South Carolina as well as other states have not been accounted for in these tallies. And that's just a small percentage of one industry.

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Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER

Your absolutely false, and are apparently living in a fantasy land. Illegals have driven down all of the wages of construction workers. It has not dropped the cost of building the homes! Contractors charge the same rate to build the homes, but keep the extra profits from hiring illegals. As someone that works in the construction field, most of my family works in the construction field, and many of my friends do, I personally know the devastating effects illegals have had firsthand to this industry alone!

You said you work in a coal mine or something right? So where do you get off talking about construction as if your an expert?

As for the farms your wrong there too. What about homeless people, people working at Mcdonalds and things like that? What about high schoolers? When I was in school I worked on some farms picking strawberries and was paid by the bushel. I did that part time + I worked as a dishwasher full time while in high school. I didn't expect to get paid $15, neither did any other non illegal I worked with!

Your fear mongoring, and your spouting off your mere opinion is fact! You need to do some actual research before you decide to pretend your an expert!

well buddy, maybe i am an expert...my dad and brother are homebuilders, my father-in-law owns a large excavation company...and no, theydont charge the same price as union jobbers do...And i own 6 rental homes, so i know what the market is and what drives the market.and also buddy, you need to realize, the expense will carry far farther than the contractor....the lumber....probaply sawed in sawmill by, you guessed it....Mexicans! The tile...yep made overseaes, or...by mexicans...you my friend live in a fantasy land! Why is the southwest the fastets growing area in the country...and one of the cheapest cost of livings...Because you can by a nice house made by cheap labor, and there are plenty of jobs to go around...good jobs that the illegals dont fill, but for good labor, you cant beat them..And btw dj...i would hire any illegal alien long before hiring someone like you...you self proclaimed know-it-all cry babies are the downfall of the economy, not illegals.

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Originally Posted by horsepwr

DJ is right. The cost of a home built by an all American GC that uses all American subs is no greater than the cost of the house next to it that was built by the GC that uses Mex subs, but you definietly will find some major differences in workmanship. Unless they, (Mexicans), have a foreman over them all day, the quality of work will suffer. They claim to be cappable of any trade. Well just because they can make something look the same in half the time at half the material cost doesn't mean that they are a master of that trade. It usually means you just got a shotty product.

where do you get off saying something like this...you think a Mexican cannot be skiled as an american?
You think a mexican cannot take pride in their work like an American?
Unbelievable! I got 3 mexicans working for me i would bet a paycheck will outwork damn near anyone you would put along side them

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Originally Posted by pigmeat

where do you get off saying something like this...you think a Mexican cannot be skiled as an american?
You think a mexican cannot take pride in their work like an American?
Unbelievable! I got 3 mexicans working for me i would bet a paycheck will outwork damn near anyone you would put along side them

I didn't say a mexican can not be as skilled as an American, and I'm not going to get into an "i bet my mexican can out work your american" pissin match online. I'm just generalizing from my experience. Hell, I know that Mexicans can make a great crew. I know that you can hire shyt for help out of an American. I could drive you to some resort style, gulf and bay front communities and show you first hand the difference. I can show you crews of Americans that will work circles around your three Mexicans too, but like I said I'm not getting in an online pissin match like that. I'm sure your guys are excellent, top notch employees. Are they legal?

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Originally Posted by pigmeat

well buddy, maybe i am an expert...my dad and brother are homebuilders, my father-in-law owns a large excavation company...and no, theydont charge the same price as union jobbers do...And i own 6 rental homes, so i know what the market is and what drives the market.and also buddy, you need to realize, the expense will carry far farther than the contractor....the lumber....probaply sawed in sawmill by, you guessed it....Mexicans! The tile...yep made overseaes, or...by mexicans...you my friend live in a fantasy land! Why is the southwest the fastets growing area in the country...and one of the cheapest cost of livings...Because you can by a nice house made by cheap labor, and there are plenty of jobs to go around...good jobs that the illegals dont fill, but for good labor, you cant beat them..And btw dj...i would hire any illegal alien long before hiring someone like you...you self proclaimed know-it-all cry babies are the downfall of the economy, not illegals.

All I can say is your thought process on this issue, and your claims are laughable to say the least! I've worked in nearly every trade, worked on jobs like the NIH in D.C. building a 1 BILLION dollar complex where 90% of the workers are illegal. My father in law works as a foreman for a company there and says he has to keep a close eye on them because they're constantly screwing things up. He also says that wages in the drywall industry have dropped dramatically since the 70's. He said he used to make more back in the 70's as a finisher, than finishers currently make today!

Did you know currently that our government gives the big contracts only to companies that have the most amount of minorities? That's not speculation. That's fact! That's how these same companies I worked with at NIH, get all of these government contracts, and that is why according to all the big wigs there, there are so many illegals on a government job site.

As I said before unionized states pay sometimes more than triple what states like FL pay. I'm not even saying union is the way to go. I'm saying that illegals drive down prices. Down here in FL I own a cabinetry company with a franchise up in Buffalo, NY. I've met many other companies that do the same line of work and they laugh at me for hiring americans. They say that it's much more profitable to hire illegals because they work for pennies on the dollar. They all charge higher prices than I do, yet they pay their employees less. So again your answer about wages and prices is shot down!

What's your point about owning properties? That doesn't make you an expert! I've got a Real Estate License so sorry to tell you, your not the only one that knows the market! I got my license to sell real estate part time, but actually to be able to buy and sell rentals without having to pay a commission. So I too know the market.

Your dad owns a homebuilding business? Great! My dad owns a Heating, Ventilating & AC corporation that has made it multiple times in the INC. 500 & has locations all over the world. My father in law is a foreman for the biggest drywall company in the nation and does all the MAJOR government buildings.

As for rentals my sister in law owns 20 rentals (that's 20 seperate locations not 20 units!) and retired at the ripe old age of 27 years old. So do you want a medal for your 6 rentals?

Even in the lawncare business they are killing the market. The guys I know that are in that industry said they can't compete with the illegals because they work for pennies, and with gas prices up they simply can't cut it. These people are all forced to get jobs at places like Walmart now. So people that once were good charging $30-$35 a lawn (cheaper for smaller lawns) couldn't keep afloat with illegals charging $8-10 per lawn. These illegals make their money and send it home to their families! What better way to strengthen our economy than to make money and send it to a different country! Your view is so flawed! So now the american is screwed and gets to work a job a high schooler should be working all because people like yourself want to save $5! Cheapskates like yourself are devastating this country and this economy!

I'm sick of hearing you say that houses are cheaper! They aren't cheaper because of illegals! As I've mentioned before EVERY single company i've spoke with, worked with, or know someone that works for....all charge the same if not higher prices than companies with just americans. The only difference is the owners get bigger profits. The only time a company might be a little cheaper is usually when a company is cheap and hires illegas, they are usually cheap with their choice in products too. If your the expert you claim you are in construction, you'll know that you get what you pay for. There's a tremendous difference between low priced and higher priced supplies! It has nothing to do with the workforce that made the price so much different, it's the quality of the materials. Obviously by your comments you have no clue about this!

Oh BTW, as I said I own a cabinetry company so if anyone would know the cost of wood, and what drives it up....I would! The only thing according to every one of my distributors that makes prices so high, is gas prices! Not one of them has ever claimed it's the employees that drove the prices up.

Beyond the jobs heres a story I've mentioned before that happens all to often....but usually not as ironic. A mexican guy LEGALLY migrated here and became a police officer in Tampa. He raised his family here and lived in this area 20 years. He in his spare time was a bodyguard for the mayor. Two years ago he was driving home from his gig as a bodyguard and was killed by a red light runner. The person took off after hitting him, and luckily people got plates and a description. The guys were picked up that night, and low and behold it was two illegals that didn't have insurance! So now this mexican that was a LEGAL american that deserved to be here was killed by some guys that should never have been here in the first place! Plus his family is out of luck because not only did they lose their father/husband, but the illegals had no insurance so the family recieved no compensation! That's irony if I've ever heard it.

I was assaulted by an illegal and was told the only reason I wasn't arrested is because I didn't defend myself. I received a $5000 bill and because he was illegal and even though the judge ordered him to pay restitution, I was still stuck with it on my credit. He never paid, and it's still on my credit to this day! So my life, and finances were altered because of someone that didn't even deserve to be here in the first place!

I'm glad you'd hire an illegal over an american. That's good ol'fashioned patriotism if I've ever seen it! I don't even advertise my business anymore because I do so well with referrals that I don't even need to advertise. I guess my work must suck to not even have to spend money on advertising to stay afloat! But go ahead and keep hiring those illegals, and supporting the downfall of our economy yourself!