i think i will get......

[jipped genes]

after some research i like the saiga .223. its a AK-47 clone made in russia in a AK-47 plant

they have been updated and are actually cheaper than a WASR AK. I also like the .223 caliber better than 7.62X39.

i thought about getting a AR15 but for half the cost i can get the saiga and trick it up with a good trigger group, and some high end glass of some sort.

if i do this i can buy a pistol with the $$$ i save over the AR.

i think it came down to how often i will shoot it. maybe 5-6 times a year.

even though the AR is more accurate at distance the fun factor is just as high for the saiga.

pros vs cons? let me have it

[horsepwr]

Re: i think i will get......

Saigas are made in aAmerica. The receiver shell comes from the Izsmash factory, but that's it. Izhmash produced a manay-a true AKs in it's day. The only reason Saiga says Izhmash on the receiver, though, is because that sheet of metal was stamped to shape by the Izhmash factory. So you have a Russian stamped piece of metal in a Saiga. Not to be confused with a Russian AK. A Saiga is a "sporter" variant rifle based on the Kalash platform. I have never owned a Saiga. I do know people that have them, and are very satisfied with them. You can get a Saiga for a very reasonable price, and have a gun that will function, and shoot like a champ. Anyone that tells you that you can't make a tac-driver out of an AK platform rifle does not know what they're talking about. The Saiga you're looking at probably has a longer barrel than 16", correct? Take it out, and see how accurate it is against any AR. .223 vs .223. Next contest. Run the shit out of each rifle and see which one jams 1st. You most likely won't witness a jam in the AK platform because the receiver stays clean. The AR will accumulate all that dirt and grime from the direct impingement system as opposed to the AK's piston driven system, which doesn't allow for the gases to get past the piston and into the receiver keeping a clean receiver round-after-rd-after-round...
The Saiga is a good sporter rifle with a little extra. And if you want. You can modify it to have a more combat-rifle look. You can get a different stock and pistol grip. You can also get rid of that fore-end they sell on them, and go with an AK upper and lower fore-end.

As for the how power .22 caliber. I'm not the biggest fan of the .223 varmint round. Unless I just planned on plinking with it. I would be much more comfy with more than a .22 if I were depending on it for my life. The 7.62 is a much more capable round. The .223 and 7.62x39 cost the same, but perform much differently. So, as far as cost. The 7.62 is a great plinker round too, but when it comes to life or death, which would you rather?

[straydoglogic]

Re: i think i will get......

Have you ever thought about something like the 6.5 Grendel? More stopping power than a .223 and more accurate and almost equal stopping power as a 7.62.
It also really depends on what you plan to "use" it for. Home defense, target shooting, long range. What exactly are you looking for?
Here's a vid of the Grendel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwtMo5-NU1A&feature=related

Forgot to add that it's reasonably priced. Might be my next piece.

[horsepwr]

Re: i think i will get......

Yes, as stray said. Of course, there are more options. Ammo availablity is even coming back some. Definitely better than it was a year ago. You can find, all ya need , really, in all the high calibers. Relatively...depending on your needs, or wants. But the .223 and the 7.62x39 is in no shortage around here. Those 2 are easily obtained in great quanitity. .223 having the edge there. They're plentiful everywhere. within a couple hundred miles from me, at least. And, so are 7.62x39.

The Graendale. Tokarev 7.62x25, those that aren't so poluar among the ****es. I see those on the shelves as well though. And a very good suggestion straydog.

I held a badass little rifle the other day. I can't remember the name of it. I liked it much though. It was made in Russia. The rifle pre-dates the AK-'47 and the SKS. I believe it originated in 1941. The tag on it said TNW. I remember that. and the $1089 price. It was a baddass little rifle though. It shoots the 7.62x25. They had 2 variants. 1 with a wooden stock. The other had a black fold down stock. The wooden stock model looked just like a SKS stock, from trigger back. The stock was the only similarity. This was a machine of it's own. I was diggin the hell out of it. I want 1. But, not at $1k+ I wish I could remember the name of that thing. They even had one calibered in 9mm for a little over $800.

You can't loose with the trusty AK platform of the Saiga though. And for the price. Give it hell.

[jipped genes]

Re: i think i will get......

So, as far as cost. The 7.62 is a great plinker round too, but when it comes to life or death, which would you rather?

thanks for the info HP, all

life or death? in my home i have a winchester defender shotgun with #2 buck. in a home invasion i would trust it first.

maybe i should go rent the 7.62X39 and the .223 and shoot em both



but all it will be used for is playing out on my pops in laws pasture

i also like the kel tec SU-16 but dont know enough about them

and had a mini 14 which i liked ok

[horsepwr]

Re: i think i will get......

I was looking at those KelTec .223/5.56 caliber pistols and rifles. They're pretty cool. I'm right with ya though. I know nothing about them, and from what I remember. They're going for just a few hundred under a decent AR. I think I remember them going for around the Mini 14 price range, but, they do have some "cool black rifle" features. And they boast the NATO 5.56 instead of just the .223.

[jipped genes]

Re: i think i will get......

I was looking at those KelTec .223/5.56 caliber pistols and rifles. They're pretty cool. I'm right with ya though. I know nothing about them, and from what I remember. They're going for just a few hundred under a decent AR. I think I remember them going for around the Mini 14 price range, but, they do have some "cool black rifle" features. And they boast the NATO 5.56 instead of just the .223.

i have a kel tec P3AT pistol and love it. the quality is qreat and it shoots real nice although its a long trigger pull.

i bounce back and forth between AR and AK clones

[JsJs24]

Re: i think i will get......

i have a kel tec P3AT pistol and love it. the quality is qreat and it shoots real nice although its a long trigger pull.

i bounce back and forth between AR and AK clones

Have you seen the Kel-Tec PMR-30? I am considering buying one. Its a 30 round 22 magnum pistol. Click on the link below to see it.

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=842

[horsepwr]

Re: i think i will get......

I wonder how that PMR30 operates? I would expect it to be a fairly dependable semi-auto .22, being a .22Mag.
Keeping the extra TLC and cleanliness in mind because it's a rim-fire.

Got the fiber optic sights. It might give the BuckMark and Ruger Mark 3 a run?...maybe...

I really liked my KelTec P32. I'm too lazy to keep it lubed every week though. And Keltecs don't run dry, like they do wet.

*edit: The P32 just isn't an ED CC piece for me and this weather. I gave it a go, and it didn't pass the test. Not to say that everyone would dry the gun out like my hot-runnin, sweat machine of a body does. Radiating heat. But the P32 would still be a good once in a while, date-night in the winter time...One carry now and then, but, my daily CC piece covers all those bases now and is right what I have been searching for. And no compromise with caliber. Cause the caliber, and round, do matter.

[JsJs24]

Re: i think i will get......

I wonder how that PMR30 operates? I would expect it to be a fairly dependable semi-auto .22, being a .22Mag.
Keeping the extra TLC and cleanliness in mind because it's a rim-fire.

Got the fiber optic sights. It might give the BuckMark and Ruger Mark 3 a run?...maybe...

I really liked my KelTec P32. I'm too lazy to keep it lubed every week though. And Keltecs don't run dry, like they do wet.

*edit: The P32 just isn't an ED CC piece for me and this weather. I gave it a go, and it didn't pass the test. Not to say that everyone would dry the gun out like my hot-runnin, sweat machine of a body does. Radiating heat. But the P32 would still be a good once in a while, date-night in the winter time...One carry now and then, but, my daily CC piece covers all those bases now and is right what I have been searching for. And no compromise with caliber. Cause the caliber, and round, do matter.

It looks like it operates very well. Check out this video of a guy shooting one at the Kel-Tec factory. This is a great video. They also had a full auto version that is like a little automatic rifle.http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30.htm

You can't buy them yet but should be able to in a month or two. I would like to get one but not sure after checking the price of ammo, its the same cost as 9mm.

[rc10j1]

Re: i think i will get......

I would let them come out and hear others experiences before I bought one. .22 mags and .17HMR have problems in blow back semi autos. This is why most .22 mag rifles are bolt action and not simple blow back bolts like .22lr. The .22 mag and .17HMR push the limits of rimfire internal case pressures.

[JsJs24]

Re: i think i will get......

I would let them come out and hear others experiences before I bought one. .22 mags and .17HMR have problems in blow back semi autos. This is why most .22 mag rifles are bolt action and not simple blow back bolts like .22lr. The .22 mag and .17HMR push the limits of rimfire internal case pressures.

Did you watch the video I posted? It looks like the thing does pretty well. He fired 2 clips without any problems and then ran through another one in the full auto version. I would imagine it is picky on the type of ammo you use, but nothing wrong with that. I'm getting ready to buy a Sig Arms Mosquito .22 LR, and Sig suggests in the manual that you use CCI ammo. According to all the reviews the people that used CCI had no problems, but with some other ammo they did.

[jipped genes]

Re: i think i will get......

Have you seen the Kel-Tec PMR-30? I am considering buying one. Its a 30 round 22 magnum pistol. Click on the link below to see it.
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=842

thats pretty damn sweet. my bro carries a black widow revolver its tiny and is pretty easy to handle.

.22 mag is under rated IMO

[horsepwr]

Re: i think i will get......

CCI is great ammo. Probably the best rimfire ammo available.