A mosque at Ground Zero...

[straydoglogic]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

I can certainly see and understand your point Horse.

[horsepwr]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

Thank you much stray. I'm just so passionate for my country. As they are for their's. I just wish everyone would wake up from the politically correct bs and see it for what it is.
Unfortunately, we're letting them bring their radical ideology right onto our grounds. Literally ushering in ideology that clashes with everything that was The Republic.
There was a great leader. I forget right now, but i remember the quote. He said, back in the mid 20th century, I think it was; "You'll never be able to attack Americans on American soil. Because behind every blade of grass, a rifle will be." something like that. These people have studied us for decades, if not centuries. They can not stand out way of life and liberty. They know Lincoln's quote too. "America can only be brought down from the inside."

[straydoglogic]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

I believe the first quote was from Japan. The Prime Minister or somebody of power. He basically said that he would never attack America and it would be stupid to do so because we all have guns. The 2nd Amendment is gorgeous to me..lol.. I do have to argue though that they don't attack us because of our freedom and liberty. If you look at the history of America and what we've done in the middle east, I believe they hate us for that. Now of course there are the ones that hate us on religious grounds, which would in turn make them hate us for our freedoms and our way of living as it's not in line with muslim doctrine, but I don't think that is the reason for why we were attacked.

[Dzone]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

^Excellent posts Horse...
People just dont seem to realize we are in a war against Islam...They hate us and have declared that they will destroy America and claim it for Islam!!!!Not only that, they have pledged to kill all infidels, meaning anyone who does not worship allah will be brutally executed. Wake up sheeple...these people wake up thinking of ways to kill Americans and they go to bed thinking of ways to Americans...So in the name of freedom of religion, we are allowing our sworn enemies to build strongholds on our very soil. If any other religion wants to build a temple there, then go right ahead, but in times of WAR, we must take measures to drive out our enemy and that enemy is radical Islam...sorry to hurt anyones feelings, but its the %$#@ing truth. Just thinking about this is pissing me off

[Dzone]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

but I don't think that is the reason for why we were attacked.

We were attacked by terrorists who believed they were fulfilling the will of allah and they were willing to die for their religion, knowing that they were going to be with 21 virgins in the afterlife, etc etc . That attack was a RELIGIOUS act

[straydoglogic]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

D, you have to realize that it's not ALL muslims that feel this way. I fought side by side in the war with muslims. We had officers and Marine advisers that were muslim. Every religion has radical extremist groups within them. We are fighting radical islamic extremists, not your every day average muslim. There's a huge difference. And this is one of the reason why I find religion to be such a horrifying thing. People are willing to kill each other and feel the need to either convert them or wipe them from the Earth, because of an ideological belief system. Man it scares me.

[horsepwr]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

D, you have to realize that it's not ALL muslims that feel this way. I fought side by side in the war with muslims. We had officers and Marine advisers that were muslim. Every religion has radical extremist groups within them. We are fighting radical islamic extremists, not your every day average muslim. There's a huge difference. And this is one of the reason why I find religion to be such a horrifying thing. People are willing to kill each other and feel the need to either convert them or wipe them from the Earth, because of an ideological belief system. Man it scares me.

yes religion has caused much pain and suffering. Islam being the absolute, and by far, the most horrific.

[horsepwr]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

and yes, there are decent Muslims, as with most any religion. But the face of terror, and the most horrific attacks, most attacks period, is the face of Islamic Muslims.

[horsepwr]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

But mark my words. If this Mosque is built on site. And as the face of Islamic radicals turns more white. The face of jihad will begin to blend in with a southern Baptist at a much more rapid pace than already happening now.
Just watch.

[straydoglogic]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

We were attacked by terrorists who believed they were fulfilling the will of allah and they were willing to die for their religion, knowing that they were going to be with 21 virgins in the afterlife, etc etc . That attack was a RELIGIOUS act

I'm sorry D, but I have to respectfully disagree. Of course the pawns in the chess game were willing to die for their religion, however, the masterminds of the attacks are fighting for other reasons as well. Look at our history in dealing with Iran, and Saddam, and yes, Bin Laden as well. You have to research the history and realize that having and interventionist foreign policy is what led to the hatred of our country. Do you realize that Baghdad was once a travel destination by the western world? When a government goes on killing thousands of people for a half a century, it's going to lead to hatred. And it also begs the question. As horrific as 9/11 was, where 3000 innocent Americans were killed, it is an abomination, but when our government kills thousands of them for 50 years, it is just something that had to be done. I hear people say, " just nuke the place, turn it to a sheet of glass!". How is that any different. Wanting to kill of an entire group of people, commit genocide. Why is it different when our people say and think these things than when they do? I don't want to get into an ugly debate, just a friendly conversation with opposing points of view. I'm just saying that history explains a lot. Not just religious ideology.

[Dzone]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

D, you have to realize that it's not ALL muslims that feel this way. I fought side by side in the war with muslims. We had officers and Marine advisers that were muslim. Every religion has radical extremist groups within them. We are fighting radical islamic extremists, not your every day average muslim. There's a huge difference. And this is one of the reason why I find religion to be such a horrifying thing. People are willing to kill each other and feel the need to either convert them or wipe them from the Earth, because of an ideological belief system. Man it scares me.

Yes, I agree with you. I should have clarified that. Yes, I also agree with you on the religion issue. It is very scary what people will do in the name of some religion that was completely man made. You see it in all religions. Mankind has been inventing religions since the beginning of time to deal with the issue of death , to control people, to explain why we are here, etc.

[straydoglogic]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

yes religion has caused much pain and suffering. Islam being the absolute, and by far, the most horrific.

Well, this can be debated for sure. You are right when it comes to the modern age. But lest we forget the crusades, the inquisition etc. Wars have been waged in the name of religion since inception, but I would be inclined to disagree that historically speaking, Islam has been the most violent. Certainly it has though throughout modern history. I'm trying to remember though when the last war was waged by Buddhist or Hindus..lol It's the 3 monotheistic that are the most violent.

[straydoglogic]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

Yes, I agree with you. I should have clarified that. Yes, I also agree with you on the religion issue. It is very scary what people will do in the name of some religion that was completely man made. You see it in all religions. Mankind has been inventing religions since the beginning of time to deal with the issue of death , to control people, to explain why we are here, etc.

Now there's a post that I wholeheartedly agree with!

[JsJs24]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

I'm sorry D, but I have to respectfully disagree. Of course the pawns in the chess game were willing to die for their religion, however, the masterminds of the attacks are fighting for other reasons as well. Look at our history in dealing with Iran, and Saddam, and yes, Bin Laden as well. You have to research the history and realize that having and interventionist foreign policy is what led to the hatred of our country. Do you realize that Baghdad was once a travel destination by the western world? When a government goes on killing thousands of people for a half a century, it's going to lead to hatred. And it also begs the question. As horrific as 9/11 was, where 3000 innocent Americans were killed, it is an abomination, but when our government kills thousands of them for 50 years, it is just something that had to be done. I hear people say, " just nuke the place, turn it to a sheet of glass!". How is that any different. Wanting to kill of an entire group of people, commit genocide. Why is it different when our people say and think these things than when they do? I don't want to get into an ugly debate, just a friendly conversation with opposing points of view. I'm just saying that history explains a lot. Not just religious ideology.

You are correct sir. If people would take the time to learn the history of what we have been doing in the middle east, they should realize that we have built up a hatred for America by constantly attacking these countries. If we used a non-interventionist war policy as the founders believed in, then we would not be in this mess. The sad thing about many Republicans today is that most of them buy into the propaganda bs that is being used to convince us of the war. I used to believe it myself until we continued for so long and things stopped making since anymore. And for the record, I have been to the war 6 times on 4 month deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan in a surveillance/mission intelligence unit. The war is never going to end I'm afraid. There is no clear objective either. Before I came to my senses and started learning more about middle eastern affairs, I openly supported this madness. And of course, after the 9-11 attack I supported going into Afghanistan and still think that was the right thing to do. However, the goal was supposedly to get Bin Laden, which hasn't happened and doesn't even rank very high anymore on the list of priorities. I believe Ron Paul is the bests source to listen to in regard to the war, but no other Republicans care to hear from a man of his intellect and knowledge on history. We have killed over 1 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I would think that alone would make Americans sick of the war. Many of them are innocent people getting killed. I have seen it with my own eyes, it happens, and its sad. Yes there are bad people over there that hate us but we can never kill them all. We are fighting an ideology, and a ticked off country that is sick of having us over there. Why can't people try and imagine what it would be like here if some other countries said bad groups of terrorists were in our land and then they came to fight on our soil. That wouldn't go over too well. I don't know why we don't just get out of those countries and focus on homeland security. The wars will break us financially eventually. You can't continue to spend this much money when we are in the debt we are in. But people have no clue about economics and think we are never going to go broke. Well, watch and see if we don't change our way because it will happen. And where are all of the anti-war protesters now that Obama is in office? They are nowhere to be found, thus it is safe to say the protests were always set up by higher powers and were purely political. Now that there man is in office they are no longer opposed to the war. The whole mess is pathetic and I only hope how soon it can all be over. The Republican Party needs to go back to their roots and the beliefs of the founding fathers, which was a non-interventionist war policy. The founding fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson, were adamantly against nation building and interventionist policies.

[Dzone]

Re: A mosque at Ground Zero...

Indeed, the terrorists were pawns of a mastermind that are fighting us for different reasons than religion. My opinions are probably based on the inadequate and inaccurate info being fed to us anyway. Its easy to just look at the surface and say "Oh they hate us because of their religion", without stopping to look at the full picture, including the history behind the situation.