worker's unions

[JsJs24]

Re: worker's unions

Geez, Ive had this debate a thousand times.... I am in the UAW out of Cleveland,OH and it's a two-edged sword sometimes,but if it weren't for retards like Henry Ford treating workers like slaves back in the day we wouldn't have a need for unions.

Exactly my point with unions. You are criticizing Henry Ford, yet there would not have been any auto factory jobs had it not been for him. You just called one of the greatest industrialists in history a retard. This is the view the unions have concerning the business owners. Yet, none of them want to step up to the plate and start a company or invent a product.

Explain one thing to me. How come 93% of the workforce in the US is non-union and yet we are the wealthiest country in the world as far as classes of people are concerned. Supply and demand will dictate your wages, and competition in the free market. Do you believe in a free market?

[JsJs24]

Re: worker's unions

1.If no union,who then will speak for you? companies can toss you in an instant if they want
2.toyota and honda's senior line workers make more than the big 3's line workers do an hr
3. the big three make ALOT of money off those vehicles and they can afford to pay a man a good wage to make them....trust me those at the top are grossly rich
4.A vehicles price is only about 7-10% from labor,you tell me who's pocketing the money

Toyota is a more profitable company than the US automakers, thus they pay a better wage as you claim. Well, why is that? Because they aren't drained dry by a union.

The profits aren't as high as you claim because the pensions and health benefits for retirees takes up a lot of their revenue.

What is wrong with the the executives making a profit? Why are you against profit, but then claim to be a Republican? What if you started your own company and it grew to be a multi-million dollar company? Would you want to become rich? Or would you spread it around equally amongst the employees? If so, that is socialism pure and simple. Capitalism provides everybody the opportunity to choose what they want to do in life, and if some people aren't as hard working and motivated as others then why should the rich have to cover for you.

What would happen to this country if all of the rich business owners said screw it and closed the doors? Then how many jobs would there be?

How come I have not had a problem making a good salary and I have never been in a union? Once again, how can 93% non-union employees in our country lead you to believe that if that 7% that is union was done away with we would all be treated like slaves? This is simply not true. The fact of the matter is a lot of union jobs have plenty of people qualified to do the job, thus the pay should not be as high as it is. If you get a trade in something that does not have a lot of people who are qualified to do it then you will have a higher wage. I would venture to say underwater welding probably pays well and has a small pool of qualified candidates. My job happens to be one of the sort as well, and it is very competitive in my industry. But none of the companies in my line of work are unionized. So tell me please, how am I affected by unions as far as my wage goes?

But realize I am not arguing that I want the unions done away with. I am merely suggesting that we would be fine without them, and better off as a whole in my opinion. Another thing unions get is a good pension. Those days are coming to an end in the private non-union sector, but all you do then is invest more in an IRA and 401k. That is what I do at least. I will take care of myself because I know that I cannot rely on a company to take care of me when I retire.

[horsepwr]

Re: worker's unions

I don't know how some of the unionized companies will be able to tote the pensions and country debt.
A very good point made about the pioneers/inventors/innovators. Thanks to the best of those guys, and the best of management. Only the top earners. The best managed, and worked survive. Props to those, union and non-union, that can hoe the row, and bear it all. Especially right now.

[pigmeat]

Re: worker's unions

I couldn't disagree with you more.My boss got a $485,000 bonus,and he's not the top dog.Imo,China killed the steel industry,and yes while unions especially the UAW negotiated better everything,Last time i checked the American dream was to make as much as possible to take care of your family.And let's not forget all those overpriced auto workers buy cars,boats,houses,send kids to college,buy food,retail goods...........never met a co-worker of mine feeding off the welfare system.Trust me, in my industry there making alot of money off the cars and parts you buy.
I have my issues with the union,but another thing people overlook is management would cut my throat in a heartbeat to save or make another nickel,toss me aside and let the wheels keep right on rolling.

dude you think an unskilled line worker should make more than a dentist...i think not...you guys priced yourselves right out of jobs...as did the steel workers and alot of other unions

[pigmeat]

Re: worker's unions

also there is not a union in the country that has not or is fighting workplace drug testing...proof right there that they protect their weak

[JsJs24]

Re: worker's unions

dude you think an unskilled line worker should make more than a dentist...i think not...you guys priced yourselves right out of jobs...as did the steel workers and alot of other unions

Exactly. Why is it that union workers feel they are owed something. Typical democrat mentality, always thinking they deserve more of the pie whether worth it or not. If the guys want to go buy a boat and truck, etc, then maybe they shouldn't have made a career as an assembly line worker if it doesn't earn them enough to. It is not my problem that your job doesn't pay well. Go out and do something about it, but stop demanding everything from the employer.

One more thing. If the US auto manufacturers were making so much off of each car, how come they went broke?

[trip]

Re: worker's unions

they went broke due to Fixed Cost, the S curve, and lack of capital in the market, after 9-11 they adopted the policy of making there money on the cars thru financing of them

that money dried up, in one year when gas hit 4.50 a gallon, car sales went from annual run rate of 16 million too 9 million

from 1985 those horrendous union workers produced the same number of cars every year while reducing the workforce by 40% less workers

unions did not destroy the car companies, management did

[daved150]

Re: worker's unions

they went broke due to Fixed Cost, the S curve, and lack of capital in the market, after 9-11 they adopted the policy of making there money on the cars thru financing of them

that money dried up, in one year when gas hit 4.50 a gallon, car sales went from annual run rate of 16 million too 9 million

from 1985 those horrendous union workers produced the same number of cars every year while reducing the workforce by 40% less workers

unions did not destroy the car companies, management did

that cant be over stated!!! i dont think people relize that they (manufactures) were hanging by a string...then the speculators fuked with the oil stocks, gas sky rocketed, and all the tards said "WE WANT SMALL CARS!!!!" that fuked it all up!!! now...whats the number one selling auto for the last 30yrs including all makes and models? F-150...over and over amd over...."WE WANT SMALL CARS"...retards!!!

[JsJs24]

Re: worker's unions

that cant be over stated!!! i dont think people relize that they (manufactures) were hanging by a string...then the speculators fuked with the oil stocks, gas sky rocketed, and all the tards said "WE WANT SMALL CARS!!!!" that fuked it all up!!! now...whats the number one selling auto for the last 30yrs including all makes and models? F-150...over and over amd over...."WE WANT SMALL CARS"...retards!!!

Excellent point and I agree. Cafe standards have been a major factor in damaging the car companies. But you can't convince me that the unions have had no impact whatsoever. Why aren't Toyota and Honda bankrupt? I know they had a tough year but I don't recall any bailouts.

And I would like to make it clear that I am not against the unions. Like I've said, my family are mostly union workers. I was raised in WV which is a huge union state. My only thoughts on the matter are purely from my research and opinion on the LONG TERM affects of unions on industry. I do not feel that all unions are bad either, but the ones that are have no regard for the company they work for.

[trip]

Re: worker's unions

Legacy Costs, Government Support, Focus

Japan was the most industrialized Asian country in the 1940's before they were destroyed, yet, they never had large access too energy and commodities (the reason why they were always invading China in the 30's)

Coming out of the bomb, they re-tooled and focuses on motorcycles and machines. Other countries bought those products, they expanded and ended up dominiating electronics worldwide and machines, then they started exporting there cars too America, with government support in the 1970's during the oil crisis.

They were small, efficient and cheap. They opened there first plants here in the mid-1980's, obviously with the latest and greatest and best machine tools, which is there expertise.

Now, Japanese Focus is effeciency, thus, that's what they were all about, and did not bow or bend to union rules if something did not fit there focus.

Also, like most things, no one wanted to be a dealer for thos jap boxes at first, so the dealers got really good area rights. As things got better for all cars and car companies, there dealership network was hugely profitable because they could hold prices high because they had no geographic competition. I think the numbers are something like GM has 5,000 dealers down from 7k, while Toyota has had roughly 1,500 for the last 15 years for about similar volume.

Car manufacturing was a boon for Japan and the government did everything too support them.

fwiw, both honda and toyota lost a ton of money, only difference they had huge savings. They are now also in the same boat as detroit, there costs are out of whack with sales,